Manhunter: R1TC2007 v R2JTC v R2UKWP v R2UKRDC v R1WP v R1DC

dvdvision · Post by **dvdvision** » 04 Oct 2007, 23:35

Yes, the french DVD was 1999 I think. I'll try to get the other frames grabs this week end up here.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 14 Oct 2007, 02:08

My R1 2007 True TC (MGM) DVD arrived today. I've added some info about it above, comparing it to the R2J (MGM). I'll add some captures tomorrow after I've plugged my external DVD Writer in, my laptop one is R2 locked and not even AnyDVD can get around it.

I have also added:

Average Bitrates:-
R1 2007 True TC (MGM) - DVD9 - 8.21Mb
R2J True TC (MGM) - DVD9 - 7.97Mb
R2UK Workprint (Momentum) - DVD9 - 5.53Mb
R2UK Remastered DC (Momentum) - DVD5 - 4.60Mb

I wasn't expecting the Momentum DVDs to be that low. The R2UK Workprint (Momentum) only uses 5.8Gb of the DL DVD.

dvdvision · Post by **dvdvision** » 14 Oct 2007, 07:31

I ripped the DVD and will post my grab of the Pioneer release. I'll appreciate if you can direct me with the timing of some the grabs, the first few shots I know where to find, but some others I forgot which scene they are from.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 14 Oct 2007, 16:31

I don't remember where my Manhunter DVDs are. When you're taking the R1 caps Brad, please make note of the approx time signatures for dvdvision. (each vob is about 20mins long, just use addition I guess.) Thanks.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Oct 2007, 00:25

Captures added.

It's pretty clear Momentum manipulated the colours for their Workprint DVD, it's look different from the other DVDs. Funnily enough it's the one which looks the most remastered. Comparing my R1 with the R2J and Workprint DVD I do prefer the Workprint look but as it's not the definitive cut I can happily live with the R2J.

Times:

Capture 1 - Time: 00:01:43
Capture 2 - Time: 00:03:35
Capture 3 - Time: 00:12:46
Capture 4 - Time: 00:15:28

Capture 5 - Time: 00:37:49
Capture 6 - Time: 00:54:10
Capture 7 - Time: 00:56:19

The first 4 captures are from the same VOB file so VirtualDub told me the exact time. The rest are according to my DVD Player.

They're from an NTSC DVD so you may need to go checking a bit but it will give you an idea.

The frame Eva used is the last frame just before the next scene or the first frame just after a scene, making it much easier to find the exact frame.
DVD Vision please use Lourdes' instructions:

https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... php?t=2428

If you use different instructions to what we've used your captures won't be accurate. Please also include the average bitrate, as included in the link.

What we really need is some R1 captures. If anyone has them? Romero does (all 3 versions) but he's to tight fisted to ever do captures, so I guess those won't be coming any time soon.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 15 Oct 2007, 01:11

Shing said that he had the old Anchor Bay 2-disc LE (not the Divimax DC remaster though).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Oct 2007, 01:29

Will he want to add R1 captures though???

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 15 Oct 2007, 01:49

Oh I forgot about that! I'll post grabs tomorrow.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Oct 2007, 01:57

Thanks. You will find everything you need in my post above. Please provide captures for both discs.

dvdvision · Post by **dvdvision** » 15 Oct 2007, 12:43

Thanks, I will try to follow the rules. I'm on a mac, so far I use VLC, I'll check if it correspond to what you want.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Oct 2007, 15:17

Ah well you cannot follow Lourdes' instructions entirely then. There is no VirtualDub for the MAC. VLC should be okay, just make sure you turn off all video filtering.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 16 Oct 2007, 02:11

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Oct 2007, 02:17

Nice one thanks Shingster.

I've just about managed to fit it all into the the thread title. I had to remove TVRip.

Oh my fucking god I never knew the DC was THAT bad. It's not even watchable! It makes my Remastered DC look like the best DVD ever. I cannot believe Anchor Bay even put that out.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 16 Oct 2007, 02:18

It was sourced from an old VHS tape iirc, definitely the worst Manhunter has ever looked on DVD.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Oct 2007, 02:24

I still didn't think it was that bad. It's also extensively cropped.

And to think Michael Mann originally wasn't willing to record a commentary for Anchor Bay unless they ONLY released that Director's Cut. It's a good job they managed to remaster it so Mann could record his commentary.

I think the extra scenes from the Remastered DC are still from that same source, they don't look that bad though (but probably are). AFAIK Anchor Bay remastered the Workprint and bunged in the extra DC scenes. I think that's pretty much what Mann's director's cut is.

I think the Momentum Workprint DVD is slightly sharper than Anchor Bay's effort. Not that it really matters.

Captures added.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 16 Oct 2007, 13:02

Cheers Shing.

I don't like the colours of the Workprint, they're too warm and thus the skintones look unnatural.

*Looks at original DC print* My eyes! The goggles, they do nothing!

When dvdvision posts his caps, we should add a disclaimer saying that they were captured in a different program.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Oct 2007, 14:10

You're right the non remastered DC looks terrible.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Oct 2007, 15:33

EvaUnit02 wrote:I don't like the colours of the Workprint, they're too warm and thus the skintones look unnatural.

They do look a bit unnatural but I still prefer the look overall. Not that it matters when it's the wrong cut.

When dvdvision posts his caps, we should add a disclaimer saying that they were captured in a different program.

Good idea.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 16 Oct 2007, 17:07

Brad, can you move the R2UK Remastered DC grabs up one place in the picture order, so the order from top to bottom goes:

R1 2007 True TC
R2J True TC
R2UK Remastered DC
R2UK Workprint
R1 Workprint
R1 Non-Remastered DC
TVrip

That way the grabs struck from similar prints, ie: R1 2007, R2J, & R2UK Remastered and the 2 workprint transfers are placed next to each other and thus easier to compare.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Oct 2007, 18:01

Good idea however wouldn't it be better:

R1 2007 True TC
R2J True TC
R2UK Workprint
R1 Workprint
R2UK Remastered DC
R1 Non-Remastered DC
TVrip

That way the three different cuts are together. What do you think? Agreed the current order is wrong.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 16 Oct 2007, 19:14

Rclick > Copy Image Location > Ctrl+T > Ctrl + V > Repeat > Tab, Tab, Tab

Tis the only way to compare.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 17 Oct 2007, 00:50

bradavon wrote:Good idea however wouldn't it be better:

R1 2007 True TC
R2J True TC
R2UK Workprint
R1 Workprint
R2UK Remastered DC
R1 Non-Remastered DC
TVrip

That way the three different cuts are together. What do you think? Agreed the current order is wrong.

Nah it's best to have the R2UK DC next to the R1/R2j TCs because its transfer is very similar to those, and it's easier for viewers to pick out the subtle differences between them if they are next to each other. You don't have to look closely at the R2uk and R1 Director's Cuts to see that the R1 DC is far poorer quality.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 17 Oct 2007, 01:01

I'll leave it as is tonight to see if anyone else wants to comment but if not I'll move it tomorrow, unless Eva wishes to move it before.

I'll change it as you suggested. It's just a good a reason as mine. I think the two workprints should be together but otherwise don't really mind.