Holy Sh*t Play have killed off HKL's website! ;-)

[Markgway]

A trailer has been passed for The Protector (Jackie Chan, not Tony Jaa) so I guess we might expect that one next year.

[grim_tales]

I wonder which cut they'll use? Probably "Jackie's" Chinese cut.

[Killer Meteor]

I'd love it if HKL used the old VHS artwork for The Protector. Fat chance, I know, but a man can dream

[Markgway]

That Warners poster artwork was cool I must admit. Now it's all unimaginative photoshop headshots.

I expect that HKL will use the English version, but include the Cantonese re-shoots as extras. If they're in a good mood, however, they might even include both versions in full as they're quite different. Would make a good 2-disc set.

[bradavon]

There's no way it will be 2 discs. HKL have never releases a 2 Disc DVD because of 2 cuts. We'll get deleted scenes or not but nothing more.

Isn't The Protector supposed to be pants, no?

Pronounced very shitty by Chow Yun-fat and Michelle Yeoh, though.

Pah get over it. The alternative would be to dub the film and that would be WAY worse.

[romerojpg]

Better than speaking German thats for sure.

[Killer Meteor]

There's no way it will be 2 discs. HKL have never releases a 2 Disc DVD because of 2 cuts. We'll get deleted scenes or not but nothing more.

Isn't The Protector supposed to be pants, no?

Pronounced very shitty by Chow Yun-fat and Michelle Yeoh, though.

Pah get over it. The alternative would be to dub the film and that would be WAY worse.

Bradavon, unless you're a fly on the wall in the HKL boardroom meetings, there's no way of telling what the DVD will contain. You may well be right but don't speak too soon.

The Protector is a bit tacky and extremly silly but it's surprisingly entertaining and the end fight is interestingly brutal if not very graceful.

[bradavon]

I'm willing to bet this won't be a 2 disc release, look at the recent HKL releases compared to the old.

Better than speaking German thats for sure.

It took me a second to get you but

[thelostdragon]

I rather have well spoken and dubbed German, than badly pronounced Mandarin. I can't imagine how bad it must sound to native Chinese people if even I notice the fact that the two actors' Mandarin is not their native language.

With all due respect to Chow Yun-fat and Michelle Yeoh (Yun-fat belongs to the list of my favourite actors, mind you), but they were clearly the wrong actors for their role in CTHD and it seems they were chosen in order to enhance the star factor of the film. It would have been much wiser to have cast a Mainlander with martial arts skills. And don't tell me there isn't an actor who fits the role of Chow Yun-fat in all of China.

[bradavon]

I rather have well spoken and dubbed German, than badly pronounced Mandarin. I can't imagine how bad it must sound to native Chinese people if even I notice the fact that the two actors' Mandarin is not their native language.

Well to be fair you do come from a country where dubbing is acceptable. You've been brought up with dubs and have even said yourself you've watched films with a German dub.

I'd never watch a film with an English dub never. I'd rather not watch it.

I'd take Engrish by a third rate English speaker on an English film over a dub any day. It's the proper language for the film, simple. To dub a film into completely the wrong language is way worse to me than a badly spoken correct language.

Is your Mandarin that good anyway? I can't tell the difference which is not a reason not to bother but I suspect few here could tbh. I can believe someone in China would prefer dubbing but then dubbing in China is common place, screw artistic integrity.

With all due respect to Chow Yun-fat and Michelle Yeoh (Yun-fat belongs to the list of my favourite actors, mind you), but they were clearly the wrong actors for their role in CTHD

JUST because they struggled to speak the language? So everything else that goes into acting is irrelevant.

Rubbish they were perfect.

and it seems they were chosen in order to enhance the star factor of the film. It would have been much wiser to have cast a Mainlander with martial arts skills. And don't tell me there isn't an actor who fits the role of Chow Yun-fat in all of China.

Maybe, maybe not but it doesn't mean they didn't do a stella job.

Their martial arts skills were fine and both have proven they have the acting chops to boot.

[Shingster]

Well to be fair you do come from a country where dubbing is acceptable. You've been brought up with dubs and have even said yourself you've watched films with a German dub.

I'd never watch a film with an English dub never. I'd rather not watch it.

How old are you Brad? I'm 28 soon and can say that as I was growing up the majority of foreign language films shown on TV or available on VHS were dubbed, and as far as Asian films were concerned, it was 99% English dub only. The DVD generation don't know how lucky they are.

Is your Mandarin that good anyway? I can't tell the difference which is not a reason not to bother but I suspect few here could tbh.

If you've seen enough Mandarin films you should definitely pick up on Michelle Yeoh's dodgy mandarin at least (Chow's seems a little better). Just pick out a scene when Zhang ZiYi and Yeoh are talking, Yeoh sounds like she's speaking in a completely different dialect.

I do agree with you though that dodgy accents aside, their performances were excellent and quite frankly there aren't many mainland chinese who have the "star presence", action experience, and acting abilities of Yeoh and Chow. Jet Li was the original choice of Li Mu Bai, but he turned the role down, he's also not the charismatic movie star that CYF is. Gong Li could easily match Yeoh in the acting stakes, but she'd be pretty useless in the action scenes.

[Killer Meteor]

Mind you, it wasn't that long ago Chinese stars were dubbed by other artists regardless of language

[Markgway]

Isn't The Protector supposed to be pants, no?

Yes, but fans like the HK cut for the additional action.

[Markgway]

I rather have well spoken and dubbed German, than badly pronounced Mandarin. I can't imagine how bad it must sound to native Chinese people if even I notice the fact that the two actors' Mandarin is not their native language.

Lol, how would you know the difference between a good and bad Mandarin accent? I can understand Mandarin speakers finding it awkward, but you? Isn't that just being pretentious?

[Shingster]

It's definitely possible to pick up on weird accents even when you don't understand the language coz everyone hears the rhythm of the dialogue of any film they're watching, and when somoene doesn't match this rhythm they stick out. For instance I can watch a Japanese film and sometimes catch up on regional accents IF everyone else is speaking with the same or similar accents/dialects. A good example is the Miike film: Bokkyo, which is set in Osaka but has one teacher from Tokyo and her accent stood out even to me & I correctly placed where her character came from before it was revealed in the film itself.

Another example I found recently was the US TV show Heroes, it was painfully obvious to me that one of the Japanese characters in the show (Ando) was speaking in an absolutely dreadful Japanese accent. I later did a google search and found out that the actor in question can only speak very basic japanese, and his delivery is so poor in the show that they'll probably have to subtitle his dialogue if they show Heroes in Japan.

[Markgway]

Well, I don't recall noticing anything awry with the accents, but maybe if I paid close attention? Or maybe it's just you guys are picky?

[thelostdragon]

I'd take Engrish by a third rate English speaker on an English film over a dub any day.

Even if he is supposed to play a native British gentleman whom one would expect to speak Queen's English?

Is your Mandarin that good anyway? I can't tell the difference which is not a reason not to bother but I suspect few here could tbh.

Well, I have been studying Mandarin for over a year now, not including the half-term pause. Chow Yun-fat speaking Mandarin, sounds exactly like my mate who studies Mandarin with me and who is from HK. The emphasis on the words is totally different. I'd say that compared to Cantonese, Mandarin sounds rather like singing, with far stretched sounds. Cantonese is more choppy and snatchy. So Mandarin with a Cantonese accent does not sound like stretched out sounds. Just compare Chow's Mandarin to Cheng Pei-pei's for example, whose Mandarin sounds far more real.

Due to my job at Deutsche Welle radio/online, I'm working with people from all over the world and in August I had folks from the Chinese section in the studio every single day airing for 8 hours. They are airing in Mandarin, so believe me, I am pretty sure that I know what proper Mandarin sounds like by now and it is not what Michelle Yeoh or Chow Yun-fat are pronouncing in CTHD.

Hell, I don't blame them, though. Michelle is from Malaysia and Chow is from HK. They no doubt do a decent acting job in CTHD in terms of facial expression and pulled off the fight sequences well, especially Chow Yun-fat considering the fact that he is no real life martial artist. All I'm saying though is that they could have found wonderful Mainland actors who have a martial arts background as well. Yeoh and Chow were cast because of their star potential.

I can believe someone in China would prefer dubbing but then dubbing in China is common place, screw artistic integrity.

With all due respect to Chow Yun-fat and Michelle Yeoh (Yun-fat belongs to the list of my favourite actors, mind you), but they were clearly the wrong actors for their role in CTHD

JUST because they struggled to speak the language? So everything else that goes into acting is irrelevant.

I have said they were mis-cast. I haven't said though that their performances were bad. I just said that they were the wrong actors for the roles of ancient Mainlanders.

I'm not going to cast a Dutchman and a French guy to play the German lead characters of my film, no matter how good they are at their profession as actors, only because people like you, Brad, don't care about whether they sound like Germans or not.

[thelostdragon]

Another example I found recently was the US TV show Heroes, it was painfully obvious to me that one of the Japanese characters in the show (Ando) was speaking in an absolutely dreadful Japanese accent.

True. I noticed that from the very first episode.

[Shingster]

Well, I don't recall noticing anything awry with the accents, but maybe if I paid close attention? Or maybe it's just you guys are picky?

Nothing to do with being picky, you've obviously missed my previous comment where I sad Yeoh and CYF were excellent. I noticed their accents were off and didn't give a shit, it's something that never bothers me.

[Markgway]

Notice the smiley, Shingster.

[Knetan]

hey,

not time for one of those "I don't know what you're talking about but it ain't HKL"-threads, brad?

[bradavon]

How old are you Brad? I'm 28 soon and can say that as I was growing up the majority of foreign language films shown on TV or available on VHS were dubbed, and as far as Asian films were concerned, it was 99% English dub only. The DVD generation don't know how lucky they are.

28 in 12 days, but I was lucky I guess in that I came to Asian cinema late.

Bar Enter the Dragon I can't think of any Asian film I had seen prior to 2000. It was ironically CTHD that got me into Asian cinema. I remember reading Jenz's Once Upon a Time in China HKL review, looking at the screen captures and thinking it looked a bit like CTHD.

I bought it, loved it and the rest is history.

If you've seen enough Mandarin films you should definitely pick up on Michelle Yeoh's dodgy mandarin at least (Chow's seems a little better). Just pick out a scene when Zhang ZiYi and Yeoh are talking, Yeoh sounds like she's speaking in a completely different dialect.

Fair enough. TBH my point was purely that broken Mandarin vs. a dub of a completely different language and actually more to the point broken Mandarin from the actual actors speaking vs. a Mandarin dub the sync sound Mandarin always wins.

I see LD's point though that they could've found equally talented Mainland Chinese actors but they didn't and what we have is definitely overall very good.

I don't see how it matters. Plenty of actors speak in a language not native to them. It's common practise, why this film is particularly taken apart I'm not sure.

Does Milla Jovovich sound American? No but does it matter? No.

I do agree with you though that dodgy accents aside, their performances were excellent and quite frankly there aren't many mainland chinese who have the "star presence", action experience, and acting abilities of Yeoh and Chow.

Exactly.

Jet Li was the original choice of Li Mu Bai, but he turned the role down, he's also not the charismatic movie star that CYF is.

Exactly. Both have charisma but CYF pips him to the post.

Gong Li could easily match Yeoh in the acting stakes, but she'd be pretty useless in the action scenes.

Again exactly. The part needed more than just a decent understanding of Mandarin.

[bradavon]

Mind you, it wasn't that long ago Chinese stars were dubbed by other artists regardless of language

And thank god that period is (pretty much) over. Talk about a great way to remove all artistic integrity.

I want to hear the actors voice not some two bit dub artist's!

Even if he is supposed to play a native British gentleman whom one would expect to speak Queen's English?

If the alternative was a dub artist DEFINITELY. Unlike Germany I've not been brought up on dubs I guess so despise them.

Sure I'd prefer a Brit to play a Brit (the idea of Bond being an American makes my blood boil, even though oddly Lazenby pulled it off fine, but then there is a big difference between an American and Australian in this sense).

Chow Yun-fat speaking Mandarin, sounds exactly like my mate who studies Mandarin with me and who is from HK. The emphasis on the words is totally different. I'd say that compared to Cantonese, Mandarin sounds rather like singing, with far stretched sounds.

Fair enough but like I said many non-English speak English in American and the like films, often they don't sound American or British (where applicable) but does it matter? Barely.

All I'm saying though is that they could have found wonderful Mainland actors who have a martial arts background as well. Yeoh and Chow were cast because of their star potential.

And their acting abilities. It wouldn't have worked at the end of the day if they didn't have those.

I have said they were mis-cast. I haven't said though that their performances were bad. I just said that they were the wrong actors for the roles of ancient Mainlanders.

I disagree for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

I'm not going to cast a Dutchman and a French guy to play the German lead characters of my film, no matter how good they are at their profession as actors, only because people like you, Brad, don't care about whether they sound like Germans or not.

Have you never watched an American film where the lead isn't a native America speaker and it not bothered you or you even noticed it?

[bradavon]

not time for one of those "I don't know what you're talking about but it ain't HKL"-threads, brad?

Almost

[grim_tales]

Lazenby was Australian, not American.