Holy Sh*t Play have killed off HKL's website! ;-)

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 12 Apr 2006, 22:59

i see the latest hkl magazine/dvd is enter the dragon

hkl must be sublicensing from warner.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 12 Apr 2006, 23:08

The magazine you are referring to doesn't really have anything to do with HKL - they are very basic versions of the films, with NO extras or audio commentary. That is being done as a part works deal.

DeAgostini have licensed HKL titles for this purpose, but their discs do not have any HD masters etc so they are not of the same quality as the HKL DVDs.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Apr 2006, 23:55

bradavon wrote:Sure they're not perfect but bloody hell that doesn't make them one of the worst DVD companies in the world. You guys really blow things out of proportion. I'm sure you're not happy unless you're moaning about something.

Call me a moaner if you wish, but premium price for films that are frequently out of sync or cropped and have piss extras is not worth praising. Better than nothing? Of course. But that's a dumb argument in today's competative market. Truth is: these companies just don't care enough.

I tell you what I find out even harder to fathom: the amount of text that has been written bashing some aspect of a Fortune Star or HKL DVD compared with the bashing the god awful Universe/Mei Ah DVDs is unbelievable.

Universe and Mei Ah DVDs were cheap as chips and made at a time when studios were less savvy about what customers wanted. That doesn't make the product better... but it's a minor excuse. I actually kept my Mega Star disc of ROUGE over the horrible IVL disaster with its missing heads.

Thanks. Who does now? I presume it's still Spectrum in Korea?

Joy Sales (HK)

HungFist wrote:They sound fine to me, sorry but they do.

I suggest a hearing aid. Hung Fist is spot on. The audio is either a lousy remix or mono so raw it could strip paint.

My OUATIC FS DVD is perfectly in sync thank you very much.

I think I'll recheck mine tomorow. And Project A.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 13 Apr 2006, 00:00

Markgway wrote:...and have piss extras...

Most of their discs might be barebones, but when they have extras, they are of good quality. To me at least. I loved the extras on their "Project A"-box. We get to see some really rare JC footage. I'm an ultimate fan of JC, so this might be interesting for me only, though.

I actually kept my Mega Star disc of ROUGE over the horrible IVL disaster with its missing heads.

Missing HEADS? Like actors' heads were cut out. Didn't notice that. Care to explain or give us a link to a thread elsewhere with screenshots? LOL! The first time I have heard of a DVD where the DVD label has removed the heads. Say it isn't true.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 13 Apr 2006, 00:01

thelostdragon wrote: - A Better Tomorrow: We have all talked about it... picture-wise part 1 is messed up. At the end of each shot, the frame freezes for a second which is just unforgivable. That's the reason why I have kept my Deltamac release of part 1.

I think the frame freezes only happen occasionally not at the end of every shot. The one that I noticed (well it was pointed out) was after Emily Chu breaks Tsui Hark's car window. I agree it's unacceptable though and really hope MIA do a good job on their forthcoming SE. A list of extras (interviews) can be found at the BBFC.

- Police Story: Apart from the fact that over the end credits of part 2 we hear the soundtrack from the end of part 1, I was satisfied with this. Still an unforgivable error. I kept my HKL DVD.

Part 1 for sure is out-of-sync in mono. I've heard the second part is too, but three is OK.

- Rouge: Hmmm... somewhere near the ending, the my DVD stops playing and jumps around between chapters etc... either it is a faulty disc or I will give it another chance on my new DVD player, which I haven't done, yet. Unfortunately, it was too late when I realised this problem and I couldn't send it back to CD Wow.

The IVL is incorrectly framed and has been zoomboxed so that heads are cut off the top of the screen. Awful. The Mega Star DVD is correct.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 13 Apr 2006, 00:04

thelostdragon wrote: Most of their discs might be barebones, but when they have extras, they are of good quality. To me at least. I loved the extras on their "Project A"-box. We get to see some really rare JC footage. I'm an ultimate fan of JC, so this might be interesting for me only, though.

Project A was the ONLY one to have quality extras. The rest were missed opportunities even when extra footage did exist.

Missing HEADS? Like actors' heads were cut out. Didn't notice that. Care to explain or give us a link to a thread elsewhere with screenshots? LOL! The first time I have heard of a DVD where the DVD label has removed the heads. Say it isn't true.

Not entirely, lol. The tops of heads are cropped off. There was a comparison a while back. Maybe Ken knows the link?

Knetan · Post by **Knetan** » 13 Apr 2006, 04:11

hey,

http://www.cinedie.com/dvd/rouge-framing.htm

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 13 Apr 2006, 09:42

I didnt notice any OOS mono on the OUATIC set TBH, I kept my HKL DVD for the HK cut of Police Story 2.
Funny IVL included the Japanese cut of PS2 instead, but you could also ask why they didnt include the HK theatrical cut of ABT 3 in that box. Still I think its a nice thing to have.

"Unforgivable error" the theme from PS1 is over the credits of PS2.. eh? I like the sequels theme, but the PS1 theme is because of the print FS had - its not as if PS2 Japanese version had Jackie's HK PS2 theme over the top and FS decided to change it to piss us off

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Apr 2006, 12:23

Yeah ABT Box set isn't great but still better than my AB DVDs so I'm happy but the OUATIC box set is just lovely from the gorgeous packaging to lovely AV.

I've kept my HKLs for the Bey Logan commentaries (even if part 1 is a bit ropey) but opt to watch the films on the IVL box set anyday.

Oh and I've only seen/own PS3 from the IVL box set but that's lovely too. A big improvement over the Megastar (second best IMO).

thelostdragon wrote:I don't know why, but I don't have high demands in terms of audio quality for an old HK film. Of course they should be in synch and preferably in mono. However, it seems that people realise out-of-synchness (is this a word?) where I do not. So either I am am just too dumb to notice that or I am purley lucky to be satisfied so easily.

I couldn't agree more. It really is to much to expect a perfect DVD from such an old HK film IMO.

I do notice out of sync films but not as often as some it seems. Many thought the Fast and the Furious DTS was out of sync I've only ever found it to be perfectly in sync.

No it's not really a word but people use it so I wouldn't worry but really it's syncness.

Markgway wrote:I agree it's unacceptable though and really hope MIA do a good job on their forthcoming SE. A list of extras (interviews) can be found at the BBFC.

I's Optimum Asia I belive. Are MIA still releasing DVDs? They used to own it but I don't think they do anymore.

The last I saw was an English dubbed version at the BBFC???

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 13 Apr 2006, 12:30

Markgway wrote:I think the frame freezes only happen occasionally not at the end of every shot. The one that I noticed (well it was pointed out) was after Emily Chu breaks Tsui Hark's car window.

Yeah, but it starts to be in every shot when Mark goes and gets the tape for Ho. When he gets out, there is the garage shoot-out and then we have that freeze framing in every scene.

Thanks for that link, Ken! How is the goold ol' Cinedie doing? Is he still doing these comparison shots?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Apr 2006, 12:34

Is it just ABT1 that has problems in the IVL box set or ABT2 and ABT3 also?

Knetan wrote:http://www.cinedie.com/dvd/rouge-framing.htm

That looks more like reframing than cropping. Sure the end result is the same but it's pretty common for this to happen, not ideal I agree but the IVL looks so much nicer otherwise.

That said I as the IVL is in another aspect ratio it's to be expectded. The same happened with Robocop. I presume 1.66:1 is the original AR? Unusal for a HK film.

That dude's TV has major overscanning.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 13 Apr 2006, 12:36

I have only watched ABT1 so far, but haven't heard about this problem to be on part 2 and 3.

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 13 Apr 2006, 13:28

Bradavon, yes, I honestly do think the old non-remixed Universe, Deltamac and Mei Ah releases are better than most FS releases.

bradavon wrote: p.s - My OUATIC FS DVD is perfectly in sync thank you very much.

I havent seen the dvds myself but H.K. DVD Heaven wrote:
Part 1: "That aside, the best option of all is the original mono dub from FS. True, it does occasionally fall slightly out of synch with the image"
Part 2: "I was hoping that Fortune Star might have righted the wrongs perpetrated in OUATIC's Mono soundtrack, but frustratingly, I once again became aware of the lag between visuals and sound, with it being far more noticeable than before."
Part 3 "As with the other discs, Fortune Star's Mono soundtrack falls in and out of synch throughout the feature, and isn't worth pursuing."

bradavon wrote:Yeah ABT Box set isn't great but still better than my AB DVDs so I'm happy but the OUATIC box set is just lovely from the gorgeous packaging to lovely AV.

I owned that box set but sold it. I thought the AB's were better (still very poor PQ wise)

And about PS3, the mono track sounds terribly raw. I actually considered watching it with the remix, but it was just driving me crazy (especially the gun shot effects) so I turned the mono back on. PS1 actually sounds very good, though it's (naturally) out of sync.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 13 Apr 2006, 13:51

I never noticed the freezing in ABT1 either.
I know Romero mentioned it but I think he has (had?) the Korean set.
Fortune Star havent remastered their mono tracks, but thats no reason to avoid say, the OUATIC or ABT sets IMO. All 3 films are worth owning on both sets, and the image on the OUATIC box is clearly superior to the HKL's.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Apr 2006, 14:15

The thing is if they did remaster the mono then it wouldn't sound original. I thought that was the whole point in Mono??? It's left as is.

To me sure a well made (that's crucial) 5.1 remix can sound a bit odd sometimes but the comparison of Mono only coming out of 1 speaker can sound really dull.

That said I prefer the "original" Mono on talking only films as the 5.1 adds nothing.

HungFist wrote:Bradavon, yes, I honestly do think the old non-remixed Universe, Deltamac and Mei Ah releases are better than most FS releases.

Brad shudders with disbelief. Fair enough.

bradavon wrote:And about PS3, the mono track sounds terribly raw. I actually considered watching it with the remix, but it was just driving me crazy (especially the gun shot effects) so I turned the mono back on.

Yeah it does but then many Mono tracks of this era do. I thought that's how it was supposed to sound. It doesn't bother me as I like the DTS anyway.

It's to harsh on the OUATIC films. I've not seen ALL of the OUATIC FS DVDs but part 3 sounds really bad by what you quote I would've noticed that.

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 13 Apr 2006, 14:36

The idea of mono is not to sound exactly like it was in the theaters. If the soundtrack was out of sync or had other problems, then those problems should be fixed. But they should not add newly recorded, cool surround effects as they do.

It's just like picture quality: if the original print was dirty, then it should be cleaned and remastered. But they should not change the color scheme, add new cgi effects and shoot new scenes.

Basically, both audio and video wise, they should take the original elements and make them sound and look as good as possible. But companies like FS are not using the original elements. They are adding new elements, something that was created maybe 10-30 years after the films original release, add insert them to the movie.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 13 Apr 2006, 14:37

I just meant clean up the mono track, not alter it as such.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 13 Apr 2006, 14:44

Brad wrote:1.66:1 is the original AR? Unusal for a HK film.

Nah, lots of HK films were in 1:66 back in the 80's:
-Days of Being Wild.
-Mr Vampire Saga.
-Armour of God.
-Gunmen.
-Scorpion King.

They were all reframed for DVD. Only a few distributors (like HK Vidéo) have decided to keep the original framing.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Apr 2006, 15:33

Interesting why reframe them? 1.66:1 anamorphic is easy enough. Would that be the European influence?

Why is 1.66:1 so rarely used? What does 1.85:1 have over it?

But they should not add newly recorded, cool surround effects as they do.

Isn't it uncommon to do that in Mono?

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 13 Apr 2006, 15:55

Interesting why reframe them?

Coz they don't like black bars ?

I'd say 80% of HKL's films have been reframed from 1:66 to 1:78 and from 1:85 to 1:78.
On 16/9 displays, 1:85 has little black bars at the top and bottom.
1:66 has little black bars on the sides.

1:66 is rarely used because of the formats used for theater screens I think.
Most theater screens are 1:85 or 2:35.

1:66 movies have to be cropped at the top and bottom to fit on a 1:85 theater screen (that happened when Nobody Knows hit french cinemas in 2005).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Apr 2006, 16:04

It seems like asking for trouble by shooting in it it then.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 13 Apr 2006, 16:36

bradavon wrote:I's Optimum Asia I belive. Are MIA still releasing DVDs? They used to own it but I don't think they do anymore. The last I saw was an English dubbed version at the BBFC???

Yeah, my bad, it's Optimum. MIA released the existing naff DVDs.

Here's the extras list I was talking about:

00:10:45:24 JOHN WOO INTERVIEW - OCTOBER 1993
00:02:41:08 CHOW YUN FAT INTERVIEW 1993 ON ACTING AND HIS INTRODUCTION TO JOHN WOO
00:06:31:06 WORKING WITH JOHN WOO
00:02:03:21 CODES OF HONOUR
00:01:51:24 BROTHERHOOD
00:02:08:12 ACTING AND ACTION
00:02:32:05 HOLLYWOOD AND ITS INFLUENCES
00:00:57:16 TI LUNG INTERVIEW ON MOVIES AND HIS CAREER
00:01:05:17 ACTING ROLES
00:00:24:12 A BETTER TOMORROW

Passed PG. Total run time 31:03

Incidentally, I thought you guys might be interested to know that HKL have had passed the long version of ABT3 and not the theatrical print MIHK used in 1995. Not sure if I'd mentioned this before or not?

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 13 Apr 2006, 16:39

thelostdragon wrote:Yeah, but it starts to be in every shot when Mark goes and gets the tape for Ho. When he gets out, there is the garage shoot-out and then we have that freeze framing in every scene.

I didn't know that. I only watched a bit of the film to make sure it was OK, because I'd actually just watched it prior to buying the IVL set and didn't feel like watching it again. I guess Optimum are out only hope now.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 13 Apr 2006, 16:41

bradavon wrote:That looks more like reframing than cropping. Sure the end result is the same but it's pretty common for this to happen, not ideal I agree but the IVL looks so much nicer otherwise.

I don't agree. The Mega Star image is excellent for what it is and the IVL is barely an improvement -- if that?

That dude's TV has major overscanning.

Same thing happened on mine.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 13 Apr 2006, 16:46

Tom2681 wrote:Armour of God. They were all reframed for DVD. Only a few distributors (like HK Vidéo) have decided to keep the original framing.

Mind you... ARMOUR OF GOD benefits from 1.78 matting. No more trees!