Holy Sh*t Play have killed off HKL's website! ;-)

Keung · Post by **Keung** » 17 Mar 2006, 14:57

Were the headbutts that were cut from Batman Forever re-instated for the Special Edition DVD?

If I remember rightly, earlier releases of this were PG, isn't it now a 12?

Levi

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 17 Mar 2006, 16:29

Keung94 wrote:Were the headbutts that were cut from Batman Forever re-instated for the Special Edition DVD? If I remember rightly, earlier releases of this were PG, isn't it now a 12?

It should be uncut now.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 17 Mar 2006, 16:31

Only the score was changed for Ong Bak, nothing else.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 17 Mar 2006, 16:33

grim_tales wrote:Only the score was changed for Ong Bak, nothing else.

Still a very major and important change. At leats for me it is, as I loved the original music. Very catchy and memorable.

Keung · Post by **Keung** » 17 Mar 2006, 16:46

For me, Premier Asia's score is superior to any other.

Levi

ReconFive · Post by **ReconFive** » 17 Mar 2006, 17:19

As much as i HATE alteration in Asian films...i must admit that i really liked the PA score for ong-bak as well. Maybe for a different type of movie i would be more affected by it...but for ong-bak, it seems to work well.

Seeing as how that's the only change, i'm happy to own the PA edition of the film.
(plus a bootleg with the original score

)

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 17 Mar 2006, 17:38

I don't care whether the soundtrack is an improvement or not, you don't mess with the director/makers' work!

Keung · Post by **Keung** » 17 Mar 2006, 17:41

Lol, tell that to all those rappers that fuck up asian movies. Rap music and asian cinema just doesn't work together.

Look at the state of MTV's Volcano High!

Levi

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 17 Mar 2006, 18:54

Yi-Long wrote:
grim_tales wrote:Only the score was changed for Ong Bak, nothing else.
Still a very major and important change. At leats for me it is, as I loved the original music. Very catchy and memorable.

Fair enough

You're right. I really should listen to the original score to compare, though I liked the new music.
I'm just saying that, in case anyone thinks the film is actually cut (shortened) as well as having an altered score, but its' not, eg Eva said it was cut a while back - but in the commentary Bey is talking about deleted scenes that are elsewhere on the DVD.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 17 Mar 2006, 18:55

ReconFive wrote:As much as i HATE alteration in Asian films...i must admit that i really liked the PA score for ong-bak as well. Maybe for a different type of movie i would be more affected by it...but for ong-bak, it seems to work well.

Seeing as how that's the only change, i'm happy to own the PA edition of the film.
(plus a bootleg with the original score )

Ha ha thats exactly what I own as well

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 18 Mar 2006, 22:25

When are yoy going to reply, Brad?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Mar 2006, 18:06

He he I never knew you cared about my opinion so much

I've been a busy chap over the last few days what with work and a lady I've been chatting to

EvaUnit02 wrote:Now you're under-estimating the US. The US labels who take live action Asian cinema seriously are very good. Eg Sony, Kino, Media Blasters/Tokyo Shock, Pathfinder, Criterion, (and the US arms of Tartan & Artsmagic). I'd say their output of Asian titles can easily rival the likes of Tartan UK, Artsmagic UK, Momentum and Artificial Eye.

Maybe but:

* I was excluding the likes of Sony because they release only a small number of comparatively speaking titles. It's more of a sideline.
* Criterion fair point. There DVDs are bloody expensive (often twice the price) so I'd expect them to be decent.
* Kino - A decent label, WTF??? Sure they've done some decent work but it's far from consistent.
* Tartan US - Are a British company???
* I can't talk for the rest.

Are they as consistent in releasing titles as Tartan are???

Risk wrote:But now especially with the internet and finding information about my favourite HK films I want to see each release being the optimum release it can be, will be and should be.

My point which I put very badly, is this possible?

The amount of decent DVDs I've thought "this is decent" and someone has to find a problem with it.

Yi-Long wrote:What the FUCK does nationality have to do with anything? have I EVER said Holland does any better?

Nothing well kind of.

It was wrong of me to cite nationality when it wasn't what I meant. It just seems some people are never going to be happy with their DVDs.

I remember when Star Wars came out (the new ones), they were excellent transfers yet someone had to bitch about the use of edge enhancement. Not this forum btw I'm talking generally.

Yi-Long wrote:If HKL/PA/WHO-EVER does things right, I say so (Taegugki) and recommend everyone to go for their release. If they do it wrong (Ong-Bak)

Fair enough. That's the first time I think I've seen you praise an HKL title.

Yi-Long wrote:Hell, Osama Bin Laden himself could start up his new MA label and make Drunken Master 2 uncut and subbed, and I'll write him a check and a thank you note!

Jeez that wasn't called for.

thelostdragon wrote:Do you feel personally offended by Eva and Yi bitching about HKL or why are you replying in a manner so unusual of you?

No just the constant bitching I guess. I was tired when I wrote that (not an excuse) and wrongfully used the Nationality card.

Things ARE going downhill right now though and I can see where EVA and Yi (a.k.a customers) are coming from.

I can to an extent but many of their recent DVDs are still very good. Those don't get mentioned though.

Markgway wrote:The BBFC don't routinely cut headbutts anymore. Only occasionally for lower categories if strong.

I didn't know that thanks.

Keung94 wrote:For me, Premier Asia's score is superior to any other.

Everyone who has heard it says that. I don't think Yi-long's even heard it. I would've given the PA DVD a go for sure if I thought the film was any good.

gasteropod wrote:I don't care whether the soundtrack is an improvement or not, you don't mess with the director/makers' work!

Director's are human and make mistakes. I'm not saying in the case of Ong-Bak. Sure I want to watch both cuts but I'm not going to say A is better JUST because the Director thinks so.

Perfect example: Naked Weapon. I'd love a DVD with "that" scene cut.

grim_tales wrote:Fair enough You're right. I really should listen to the original score to compare, though I liked the new music.

Don't you still have the DVD?

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 19 Mar 2006, 18:33

bradavon wrote:
Yi-Long wrote:If HKL/PA/WHO-EVER does things right, I say so (Taegugki) and recommend everyone to go for their release. If they do it wrong (Ong-Bak)
Fair enough. That's the first time I think I've seen you praise an HKL title.

I remember Yi expressing quite often how satisfied he is with PA's release of "Taegukgi". I guess one of my favourite sayings applies here:
"Good is written in sand. Bad is carved in stone."

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 19 Mar 2006, 20:30

Not only Taegugki. I have alot of HKL dvd's in my possesion which I'm satisfied with. I bitch because I, as most people, have very high expectations from HKL when it comes to them releasing asian movies on DVD. They started out pretty promising, so to see them now cutting/altering movies, or opting for international cuts when the uncut versions are better and also availabe for them to use, it pisses me off.
I very often recommend to people to get the HKL version of a movie, when I know it's a good release. But obviously, when they fuck the release up, I'm gonna bitch and moan about it instead of just going 'Oh well... here's my money anyway...'
Fuck that kind of attitude.

Just look at all the big HK/Chinese/Thai/ Korean movies from the last few years, and pretty much all of them have been fucked around with for their release in the west: Ong-Bak, Hero, Shaolin Soccer (5 years old I know), Seven Swords, The Promise, etc etc. Luckly Old Boy and 2046 are considered 'art house' so they went through the butchers unscathed.

But WE are the fanbase. If we dont speak out against this shit, who will?

BTW, Just watched Taegugki this weekend: Brilliant flick, and PA did a great job

BTW2: I believe the Star Wars bitching was about George Lucas having changed certain scenes in the movie? The fans just wanted the original versions, which is a fair request I feel.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Mar 2006, 20:52

The problem being the alternative, in order to watch it intact I'd have to put up with a bootleg and no matter how good they are they aren't DVD quality.

For me it would depend by how much and what it's altered by.

Shaolin Soccer: Ended up being released on DVD in both forms so does it really matter? In a funny kind of way I prefer this so I can watch both and choose.

I'd buy Musa PA DVD but with seamless branching offering both cuts in a second.

The Promise: Yes Weinstein (what's his company called?) owns the Western rights but we have no idea if the DVD won't have both cuts. It's not uncommon to do this.

Ong-Bak: What's wrong with the R4? Sure it may not have Amazing PQ but then neither does the Thai DVD.

Seven Swords: Wasn't it Hark himself who decided to cut this?

Yi-Long wrote:I believe the Star Wars bitching was about George Lucas having changed certain scenes in the movie? The fans just wanted the original versions, which is a fair request I feel.

True but that wasn't the aspect of the DVD I was talking about.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 20 Mar 2006, 00:31

bradavon wrote:The problem being the alternative, in order to watch it intact I'd have to put up with a bootleg and no matter how good they are they aren't DVD quality.

For me it would depend by how much and what it's altered by.

Shaolin Soccer: Ended up being released on DVD in both forms so does it really matter? In a funny kind of way I prefer this so I can watch both and choose.

I'd buy Musa PA DVD but with seamless branching offering both cuts in a second.

The Promise: Yes Weinstein (what's his company called?) owns the Western rights but we have no idea if the DVD won't have both cuts. It's not uncommon to do this.

Ong-Bak: What's wrong with the R4? Sure it may not have Amazing PQ but then neither does the Thai DVD.

Seven Swords: Wasn't it Hark himself who decided to cut this?

Yi-Long wrote:I believe the Star Wars bitching was about George Lucas having changed certain scenes in the movie? The fans just wanted the original versions, which is a fair request I feel.
True but that wasn't the aspect of the DVD I was talking about.

The problem I have with multiple versions on 1 disc is that I dont want to spend money on a 2-disc release when 1 of the discs is complete bollocks and shouldnt have been there in the first place. Like the Australian version of Ong-bak: Besson version has best AV quality, doesnt it? Well, thats fucked up. Why pay for that?
I rather watch a bootleg of Ong-bak with slightly less good AV but with the soundtrack intact, then the new OB release from PA with the crappy new score. But that's just me and I know others have different opinions.

Shaolin Soccer was luckily released on a decent HK DVD, which I have. As you might remember back in the day Miramax approached CityonFire among other sites to include a banner on their site to promote the Miramax release of Shaolin SOccer. Luckily, we gave a big fuck you to the Weinsteins, and placed a free promotional banner for the HK DVD on the site (Telling people NOT to buy the Miramax versions, and go for the cheaper and better HK DVD instead

) , which some other sites also picked up on and used

But come on, Brad, you cant tell me you aint pissed off at all the same bullshit over and over again with different releases and cuts and whatever else they'll think of next, for what are already very very good movies.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 20 Mar 2006, 07:42

Am I the only one who's satisfied with the 2.5hr cut of Seven Swords?

Brad wrote: True but that wasn't the aspect of the DVD I was talking about.

Wasn't it just Ep.1:TPM that had severe edge enhancement? I never heard about AotC or RotS having EE. I couldn't care less, I've never noticed EE on my 32". I think it's only dudes with 42"+ screens and projectors who can detect it.

I remember there was massive complaints about severe EE on the Terminator 2 R1 UE, it looks fine to my eyes.

Yes Weinstein (what's his company called?)

Just "Weinstein Co."

Yi-long wrote:Like the Australian version of Ong-bak: Besson version has best AV quality, doesnt it? Well, thats fucked up. Why pay for that?

To be fair, the Besson cut was probably only included on the R4 out of license contract requirements.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 20 Mar 2006, 09:19

I liked the 2.5 hour cut of SS, overall it was very good.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 20 Mar 2006, 09:21

Brad, yeah I still have the Thai (original score) version of Ong Bak somewhere

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 Mar 2006, 14:38

Yi-Long wrote:Like the Australian version of Ong-bak: Besson version has best AV quality, doesnt it? Well, thats fucked up. Why pay for that?
I rather watch a bootleg of Ong-bak with slightly less good AV but with the soundtrack intact, then the new OB release from PA with the crappy new score. But that's just me and I know others have different opinions.

I was talking about the R4 NOT PA DVD

Even if the Besson cut is better AV to the Director's Cut it will still be better quality than a bootleg so your point makes little sense. Just ignore the Besson cut you still have a decent 2 disc set.

Yi-Long wrote:Shaolin Soccer was luckily released on a decent HK DVD, which I have.

That's now a very old DVD the R1, UK R2 and Korean R3 all are much better AV.

The UK R2 is the best out there (in the extras and PQ department, check out the DVD Beaver comparison). It's cheap too. I've yet to see the film (shock horror) but when I do I'll probably upgrade to the UK R2. I have the HK DVD with that annoying logo.

Yi-Long wrote:But come on, Brad, you cant tell me you aint pissed off at all the same bullshit over and over again with different releases and cuts and whatever else they'll think of next, for what are already very very good movies.

Of course. It gets very confusing.

But equally I get bored of moaning about it on web forums where the people who need to know I'm pissed off don't read it anyway.

You're speaking to the converted.

EvaUnit02 wrote:Wasn't it just Ep.1:TPM that had severe edge enhancement? I never heard about AotC or RotS having EE. I couldn't care less, I've never noticed EE on my 32". I think it's only dudes with 42"+ screens and projectors who can detect it.

I remember there was massive complaints about severe EE on the Terminator 2 R1 UE, it looks fine to my eyes.

It could've been. Agreed about EE.

Just "Weinstein Co."

No way but a dumbass name.

To be fair, the Besson cut was probably only included on the R4 out of license contract requirements.

Yeah probably.

Volcano High aside Madman have always released uncut work AFAIK. They really learnt the hard way with that title.

grim_tales wrote:I liked the 2.5 hour cut of SS, overall it was very good.

I liked it to and will be buying the HKL in May or if it turns out to be worse the HK DVD in May.

But if a longer cut comes along I'll upgrade as it didn't flow as well as it should've.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 20 Mar 2006, 23:18

bradavon wrote: Even if the Besson cut is better AV to the Director's Cut it will still be better quality than a bootleg so your point makes little sense. Just ignore the Besson cut you still have a decent 2 disc set.

There's just no pleasing some people. They FINALLY got a proper English subbed release of the full Thai cut w/ the original score, yet they still find something to moan about. Regarding the PQ, it's a low budget film that was prolly shot on cheap stock FFS. Madman did the best they could with their available resources.

I would've prefered a 3-disc set, thus giving both cuts breathing room on dual-layered discs and also then they could've possibly included DTS tracks. They probably just thought a 3-discer wasn't sensible (and it would've driven up the price for the consumer), so they came up with that solution where both cuts have their own layer on the one disc. From what I understand, seamless branching authoring is difficult and expensive. They don't have the budget of a big Hollywood studio.

But equally I get bored of moaning about it on web forums where the people who need to know I'm pissed off don't read it anyway.

So how is moaning about people moaning any better?

Volcano High aside Madman have always released uncut work AFAIK.

No, they released the theatrical cuts of Versus and Azumi. But TBH (judging from just having seen Versus) Kitamura doesn't have any sense of how to pace a brain-dead disposable action film. The Versus TC was over-long and terribly paced IMO.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 21 Mar 2006, 16:30

Why are you quoting me it was Yi-long not me?

No, they released the theatrical cuts of Versus and Azumi.

My bad.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 21 Mar 2006, 16:39

The problem I have with the R4 release is that I would be paying for a 2 disc release when I'm only interested in the UNCUT version,which IS included but has mediocre AV quality. I have already paid for the uncut Thai DVD without subs, and the PA version because of the great making-off, so there's no fucking way in hell I would consider ALSO buying the R4.

Just like Shaolin Soccer: It was released here in Holland as both a 1 disc release, whichw as the cut version, and a 2 disc release which had both cuts... but obviously I wont be buying a 2 disc set if I'll only watch 1 disc (uncut version) and the other disc is useless to me.

Ow... and I'm sure that in the meantime there have been some better DVD releases of Shaolin Soccer, but at the moment I'm still satisfied with the HK version I have, so no need to upgrade just yet. Maybe in a few years when we all be buying HD-DVD's...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 21 Mar 2006, 16:47

Point made. Some people are never happy.

Sell your other two DVDs problem solved Jeez. You said you were never going to buy the PA DVD - Double Jeez, the Making Of. is on the R4 btw.

which IS included but has mediocre AV quality.

Like I said so would a bootleg and like Eva said ALL versions have mediocre AV quality it was filmed on a low budget.

The problem I have with the R4 release is that I would be paying for a 2 disc release when I'm only interested in the UNCUT version.

No you wouldn't you'd be paying for a 2 Disc release with the Uncut version, a 2nd disc of extras + a Bonus if you will of a Cut version. You're not paying more for this version, the price hasn't been hiked up.

You'd use both DVDs, it's not like 1 would be wasted.

Anyway I'm bored of discussing this moving on . . .

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 21 Mar 2006, 17:00

bradavon wrote:Point made. Some people are never happy.

Sell your other two DVDs problem solved Jeez. You said you were never going to buy the PA DVD - Double Jeez, the Making Of. is on the R4 btw.

I dont sell DVDs. I dont buy DVDs I dont want, and even if a movie turns out dissapointing, I would sooner give it away to a friend then try and sell it for a couple of bucks.

I bought the PA when it was 5.99 at play.com and only for the making-off on disc 2, which I didnt have yet, except in very low quality on my HD.
If PA had released this with the right soundtrack intact, I would have happily paid 15 bucks for it.

which IS included but has mediocre AV quality.
Like I said so would a bootleg and like Eva said ALL versions have mediocre AV quality it was filmed on a low budget.

Yeah, but since I've already paid for this movie twice, I would sooner go for a bootleg (= free) then waste money on another cut that isnt 'great'.
The Video and sound dont have to be 'amazing' or anything, but if I have to choose between a mediocre dvd-release or just download it for free and wait a few years till they DO release it properly, I'll opt for the 2nd option.

The problem I have with the R4 release is that I would be paying for a 2 disc release when I'm only interested in the UNCUT version.
No you wouldn't you'd be paying for a 2 Disc release with the Uncut version, a 2nd disc of extras + a Bonus if you will of a Cut version. You're not paying more for this version, the price hasn't been hiked up.

You'd use both DVDs, it's not like 1 would be wasted.

Anyway I'm bored of discussing this moving on . . .

No, cause the assie version doesnt have many, if any, memorable extras that I dont already have. Plus the main feature is of so-so quality, so not worth the RRP. Especially not when you already have spend money on the movie before. So going for a downloaded version/bootleg would be the most sensible option.

I really like Ong-Bak, but not so much that I'm willing to keep throwing money at it...
I'd rather spend my money on GOOD dvd releases instead.