Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - question

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Feb 2008, 01:34

I bought my UK R2 just after it first came out.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2008, 01:39

Markgway wrote:I bought my UK R2 just after it first came out.

That was a good 6-9 months after the R3. What that now means I don't know.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Feb 2008, 01:50

Me either, but both sets of subs read fine, so I wouldn't worry about it. I've no idea which is more accurate (maybe one set came from the original script - which was English)?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2008, 01:56

I'm not sure which is more accurate but I do know which I consider more poetic and romantic, which is more important given the type of film.

Both read fine to me too. Don't get me wrong the different subs are far from a disaster. It's a small thing but an important one to me given that I love the film so much. I have fond memories of checking it out in the cinema when it first came out.

I still wish Ang Lee would make a sequel/prequel. Not that will happen now

Personally I'm no worried. It's Grim who cannot get over it and brings it up almost every month

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2008, 09:02

I have to agree Brad, if you ask me the "dumbed down" US (?) subs flow and read better. I've always known the line as "Because of your love, I will never be a lonely spirit". I did buy it a couple of years (?) after it came out.

@Mark: Wierd, my UK/R2 matches my R3 in the CYF death scene.
I have the script book somewhere, its well known the script was originally written in English, translated into Mandarin, and then back into English.

What other different scenes are there to compare?
I just had a thought, is one set of subs based of the English dub? I never listened to it so I'm not sure.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2008, 09:21

Right.
According to the original script/screenplay the line is "because of your love, I will never be a lonely spirit" which matches Brad's/my R3, my R2 UK and supposedly the R1 SB. That scene in the screenplay is the same as the DVD.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 07 Feb 2008, 10:39

either way the line is pretty cheesey

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2008, 11:47

saltysam wrote:
bradavon wrote:
p.s - I'm the only one with the original R3 right?
i have the original region 3.

What do your subs say? The same as Brad's?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 07 Feb 2008, 12:28

grim_tales wrote:
saltysam wrote:
bradavon wrote:
p.s - I'm the only one with the original R3 right?
i have the original region 3.
What do your subs say? The same as Brad's?

i'll look later. when does that scene occur,obviously late in the movie? i haven't seen it since i got the disc on release years ago.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 07 Feb 2008, 13:12

Headache, now. Big headache.

@Brad:
Whaddya mean, "romantic" ?
This is a martial arts epic, not a Julia Roberts chick flick !

I'm gonna post a few side-by-side comparisons, and you'll be able to decide which is best.

Left: my R2UK.
Right: my R1SB (with what I call the dumbed-down subs).

Michelle doesn't actually mention Beijing.

See what I mean by "dumbed-down" ?

R1SB translation is completely wrong.

The guy says "ni ?", which means "you ?", and not "who are you ?".

I've also noticed that many sentences aren't even translated in the R1SB.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2008, 13:46

tom2681 wrote:@Brad:
Whaddya mean, "romantic" ?
This is a martial arts epic, not a Julia Roberts chick flick !

Chick Flicks aren't the only films that are romantic

. Romantic means more than just gushing

. The ending (and in fact much of the film) is very romantic. It's all about lost love (you spotted that right?

) and love you can never have.

tom2681 wrote:I've also noticed that many sentences aren't even translated in the R1SB.

Really? Can you post an example please.

Okay it sounds like maybe the R1SB and R3 aren't as accurate (maybe that's why they changed them?) but they're definitely more poetic.

I've not compared all the film like you but the end sequence (which is more crucial than the minor scenes you mention) definitely flows better, and has better language (as given in my example, the UK R2 reads awfully bad).

At the end only Grim really cares

, well I care but I already own the best version

I wonder if it's a simple case of the Yellow subs being the same and the White subs being the same? My R3 also has Yellow subs like the R1SB.

p.s - So you can definitely confirm Tom the R1SB subs does have subs how you describe on page 1 and thus the same as my R3?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2008, 13:52

grim_tales wrote:@Mark: Wierd, my UK/R2 matches my R3 in the CYF death scene.

It sounds like your R3 has the new subs as used on the UK R2.

grim_tales wrote:which matches Brad's/my R3, my R2 UK and supposedly the R1 SB.

No "my" R3 is definitely different from the UK R2 and matches the R1SB.

saltysam wrote:I'll look later. when does that scene occur,obviously late in the movie? i haven't seen it since i got the disc on release years ago.

Can you please check Salty.

As you and I are the only two how seem to own the R3 (except now for Grim but his is new). The scene in question happens in the one from last chapter stop and very near the end of the film. It happens when Chow Yun Fat dies.

p.s - It sounds like to me the Original R3 and R1SB share the same subs. They were then later changed to the New R3 and UK R2 (this would be more logical too). Which differ from how Tom described it on page 1. What we do need to compare is the Regular R1 DVD, if anyone has it?

Now which is better is probably down to personal preference.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2008, 14:07

Okay lets really start to confuse things

You say your R1SB matches the R3 right Tom? Okay do you all remember the Comparison Review Jenz wrote all those eons ago that compared all Western versions (including the R1SB) plus the R3?

I've saved a copy of it into a Word document (I can post it anyone wants it?) and it specifically makes the point:

"There is however a significant point to be made in favour of the R3 version. The R3 version contains more accurate, more emotionally charged, less dumbed down English subtitles compared to the other versions. If you want the best translated English Subtitles version then it has to be R3."

It's certainly possible Jenz didn't compare the R1SB properly as that little note doesn't go into much detail and he's no longer here to clarify.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 07 Feb 2008, 14:17

My R1SB matches Grim's regular R3, yes.

So you can definitely confirm Tom the R1SB subs does have subs how you describe on page 1

If I understand your sentence: yes. There is no mistake.

-many sentences aren't even translated in the R1SB.
-Really? Can you post an example please.

I will.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 07 Feb 2008, 15:07

Let's continue:

"I've heard so much about him" can be heard, but you won't find it in the R1SB subs.

"Thief" isn't subbed on the R1SB.

Once again, "I didn't get the sword" is heard, but not subbed.

Background chatter is completely ignored on the R1SB.

He does mention "Xin Jiang", but it's not in the subs.

----------

I'd say that about 5% of the dialogue is either mistranslated or omitted in the R1SB's subs.

Yes, it flows a bit better. But it's so full of holes and errors that my mandarin ear can't stand it (when compared to the "other" subs).

Either way, I'm stopping here.
Watching two DVDs at the same time is too difficult.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2008, 16:47

One thing I remember is the "American subs" replaced "Governor Yu" with "Chief Yu"...
Hmmm.. Tom, the caps on the left (UK R2) use Chief Yu.. the ones on the left looked dumbed down to me, not the other way round.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Feb 2008, 18:35

I'm glad my version has the "clever" subs.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2008, 20:16

So you're effectively saying Tom for years Grim has worried over nothing

tom2681 wrote:If I understand your sentence: yes. There is no mistake.

Thanks. I meant is the R1SB how you typed it out on page 1 and it sounds like it is. That means it matches my R3.

Markgway wrote:I'm glad my version has the "clever" subs.

There is nothing clever about

-

"Even if I was banished to the darkest place"

You know what to me anyway they read as 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. In some places the New R3/UK R2 is better and others Original R3/R1SB.

grim_tales wrote:Hmmm.. Tom, the caps on the left (UK R2) use Chief Yu.. the ones on the left looked dumbed down to me, not the other way round.

Make your mind up. You said you agreed with me earlier

Seriously Grim both are fine, stop worrying about it

If I was in your position I'd probably live with what I've got. As I own the original R3 I'm happy. As in:

"It sounds like to me the Original R3 and R1SB share the same subs. They were then later changed to the New R3 and UK R2 (this would be more logical too). Which differ from how Tom described it on page 1. What we do need to compare is the Regular R1 DVD, if anyone has it?

Now which is better is probably down to personal preference."

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 08 Feb 2008, 00:36

My Region 3 subs say

" i would rather be a ghost,drifting by your side...as a condemned
soul..than enter heaven without you"

"because of your love i will never be a lonely spirit"

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Feb 2008, 04:37

Thanks Salty. I thought it would do.

It's definitely clear those were the Original subs then later changed for the R3 to match the UK R2.

How on earth did we think the Original R3 subs were more accurate (Jenz too) for all those years then when Tom has very well pointed out the New subs are more accurate, if less romantic and poetic

Sorry Tom this is wrong:

After doing some research, I've come to the following conclusion:
Both the original R3 and the original R2UK (the one I'm watching right now) had proper subs.
Both were later replaced with dumbed-down versions.

I believe Grim has said his UK R2 has the same subs as your UK R2 right? They must be. We have also learnt his R3 matches his UK R2 meaning it's Newer than Salty's or mine.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 08 Feb 2008, 11:21

No, Brad.
Grim's R2UK does NOT match my R2UK, which is an old one.
His R2UK has the "poetic" subs and mine has the "good" ones.

It might be worth noting that I bought my R2UK on the day of its release.
So it's got to be from the very first batch.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Feb 2008, 16:02

This is very strange.

The UK R2 I rented some 6-9 months after buying my Original R3 (and after you got your UK R2) has the same subs as your early batch UK R2 (i.e - Accurate subs) BUT the UK R2 Grim has and is also used on his New R3 has the Poetic Subs. Which are also used on my Original R3 and also Salty's Original R3.

That completely contradicts itself!

p.s - Can we avoid using the word "good" to describe either sub. We've proven well we differ over which are better/good. Let's stick to "Accurate" or "Poetic" subs.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 08 Feb 2008, 16:40

Right. I can tell you that in the scene where CYF dies, and indeed, at the start as well, my R3/my R2 are exactly the same subs wise with the poetic subs (R1SB on Page 1). In fact, both sets of subs pretty much match the original English script.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Feb 2008, 16:48

It seems one set of subs are a transcription of the original script whilst the other set are a translation of the Mandarin dialogue.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Feb 2008, 16:49

It seems your UK R2 is unique Grim.

Everyone else's, including Mark's and Tom's UK R2 DVDs have the Accurate subs (as detailed on page 1). I'm chuffed the R1SB does in fact have the Original R3 poetic subs. I'm now inclined to pick it up.

Tom: Would a 32" LCD TV pick up the SB differences? I understand they're minute. Is the DTS much better to the DD5.1?

I'm very keen to pick up the R1SB but there's not much point if I cannot see or hear the differences.

Markgway wrote:It seems one set of subs are a transcription of the original script whilst the other set are a translation of the Mandarin dialogue.

I think you're spot on.

Poetic - Original transcript: R1SB, Original/New R3 and Grim's UK R2
Accurate - Mandarin: All other UK R2's

So in fact they changed it straight away for the UK R2 but somehow Grim's differ from all other UK R2 DVDs.

p.s - If anyone has the Regular R1 we could still really do with knowing what subs that has? It would also give an good idea what subs the eventual BD may have?