Ran: Criterion Collection + NEW Optimum 2 Disc SE News

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 29 Sep 2005, 05:34

Romero is full of shit, Criterion doing a release of Kurosawa's superb Ran wasn't an April Fools Joke.

Now I want them to announce their FUCKING NEW EDITION OF SEVEN SAMURAI FFS.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 29 Sep 2005, 10:10

That cover looks like a 2 year old has splattered paint all over it

When did Romero say that? I'll keep my Criterion SS until (if?) the new version arrives.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 29 Sep 2005, 12:04

What's wrong with the UK's 2 discer? Any reason to upgrade?

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 29 Sep 2005, 13:59

I've highlighted what's not on the R2/4's from Warner/Universal. The DD5.1 remix (from the R4) is missing, but Criterion only include the the original soundtrack anyway. Their remastered transfer ought to be the best probably, but it'd be hard to beat the lovely R2/4 Studio Canal-sourced transfer.

SPECIAL EDITION DOUBLE-DISC SET FEATURES
*New, restored high-definition digital transfer
*Audio commentary by Kurosawa scholar Stephen Prince
*An appreciation of the film by director Sidney Lumet (Network, Dog Day Afternoon)
*A.K., a 74-minute film by director Chris Marker (La jetée, Sans soleil), examining the making of Ran

*Akira Kurosawa: It Is Wonderful to Create, a 37-minute documentary on the making of Ran, created as part of the Toho Masterworks series
*Image: Kurosawa’s Continuity, a 35-minute video piece reconstructing Ran through Akira Kurosawa’s paintings and sketches
*New video interview with actor Tatsuya Nakadai

*Original theatrical trailer
*New essay by film critic Michael Wilmington
New and improved English subtitle translation
*More!

Source

grim_tales wrote:When did Romero say that?

A few months ago.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 29 Sep 2005, 16:18

Errr sorry to tell you it was a Aprils Fool joke

Now they really have it yes, but the 1st press release back on April 1st was a joke, they said so thats why they took it down the day after.

Si I aint full of any shit. 8)

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 23 Nov 2005, 23:25

A glowing review of the new Criterion release of this excellent film is up on DVDtalk. I'm glad I didn't get the R2/4 now. Also the A.K. doco in the set is in uncropped anamorphic widescreen (like the R4 has) whereas it was pan&scan on the R2.

dvdtalk wrote:Video 4/5 & Audio 4/5

Third time's the charm. First released to DVD with an atrocious, flat transfer by Fox Lorber, then in a bizarre, much over-tweaked if enhanced one by Wellspring, Criterion's DVD finally gets it right, rendering these earlier travesties worthless by comparison. Though the 1.85:1 image (apparently sourced from Japan as they include the Japanese distributor's credit) still suffers a bit from the limitations of mid-1980s processing technologies - Would Kurosawa have liked to have gone back to digitally-enhance his color design and remove printing flaws, I wonder? - visually this is far sharper with better color than it has been in years. Even in 35mm on big screens, Ran rarely looked this good. Criterion's booklet helpfully notes the dual-layer DVD-9 "was encoded at the highest possible bit rate for the quantity of the material included." It shows. The Dolby Digital 2.0 mix suffered much less in earlier incarnations, and sounds splendid here. The English subtitles are removable.

About the commentary:-

Disc 1 continues with an Audio Commentary by Stephen Prince, author of The Warrior's Camera; The Cinema of Akira Kurosawa. This is apparently the same commentary track Prince recorded for the Wellspring "Masterworks" edition with some new content edited in. Peter Grilli's second audio commentary track from the Wellspring edition does not appear here. The commentary track is helpfully indexed.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Nov 2005, 13:45

Me to. I was going to get the R4 as I like my remixes. Does anyone know how the remix fairs?

I'll probably get the superior Criterion now but am still intrigued about that remix. When did this come out btw? DVD Times usually announce their releases.

The UK R2 has Mono, the R4 has DD5.1 + an uncropped documentary BUT otherwise they're identical.

thelostdragon wrote:What's wrong with the UK's 2 discer? Any reason to upgrade?

If you already own it extras I image. It is nearly half the price too and will probably stay that way.

Not enough reason IMO I agree.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Nov 2005, 13:55

Any screen captures up comparing the Criterion to the French/UK/Australian DVDs?

This is £16.99 at CD WOW. Does anyone know if it can be bought cheaper?

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 24 Nov 2005, 16:12

Any screen captures up comparing the Criterion to the French/UK/Australian DVDs?

DVDBeaver.
About the french dvd: I've seen it once, and it has too much print damage to be worth anything. Criterion's the way to go now.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 24 Nov 2005, 18:04

Scary that they are still not re-releasing the best Kurasawa films of this quality

I guess Ran wil be re-bought once again.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Nov 2005, 19:16

Which ones would those be?

I'm sure we'll see a SS re-release at some point. I'll upgrade to the R4 one day. I own the UK R2 at the moment.

Tom2681 wrote:DVDBeaver.

Thanks.

This comparison shows how bad the Fox Lorber and Masterworks versions are.

Tom2681 wrote:About the french dvd: I've seen it once, and it has too much print damage to be worth anything. Criterion's the way to go now.

All the reviews I've read say the French master is lovely.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 24 Nov 2005, 19:43

The tripple bill of superb samuirai films

Seven Samurai
Yojimbo
Sanjuro

they need 2 dvd editions of these please!!!

I dont think Ran is even close to these 3 films or most other Kurasawa samurai films even.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 24 Nov 2005, 19:47

bradavon wrote:Does anyone know how the remix fairs?

The DD5.1 remix on the R4 is excellent.

he UK R2 has Mono

no, it has DD2.0 STEREO. Ran's original theatrical sound mix was stereo - there's no Japanese mono track.

romerojpg wrote:Scary that they are still not re-releasing the best Kurasawa films of this quality

His name is Kurosawa. You insulting a filmmaking god like that is unforgivable.

Tom2681 wrote: About the french dvd: I've seen it once, and it has too much print damage to be worth anything. Criterion's the way to go now.

Bullshit, the Studio Canal transfer is stunning.

romerojpg wrote:The tripple bill of superb samuirai films

Yojimbo
Sanjuro

I dont think Ran is even close to these 3 films or most other Kurasawa samurai films even.

I disagree, Ran is far better than both Yojimbo and Sanjuro. Those two are just well-made action film - Ran is an epic. But yes, Yojimbo/Sanjuro do need English releases that do them justice. I would cite the Eastern Eye R4's, but they're NTSC>PAL - thus they're instant garbage.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 24 Nov 2005, 20:02

Ahh yes lot of people LOVE Ran

I like it, but I dont love it

maybe when HD dvd is out we will get new versions of all the films.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 24 Nov 2005, 20:11

Bullshit, the Studio Canal transfer is stunning.

I know there are 2 french editions of Ran.
Maybe I saw the bad one.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Nov 2005, 20:42

EvaUnit02 wrote:The DD5.1 remix on the R4 is excellent.

Now I'm stuck. The Criterion or the R4 with DD5.1 remix.

I wonder how much better it is to the original Stereo??? Considering I love well made 5.1 remixes BUT if they're like the 5.1 remixes from HKL then why bother?

It's really annoying the R4 doesn't have the Stereo also. Is it enveloping during the battle scenes Eva?

no, it has DD2.0 STEREO. Ran's original theatrical sound mix was stereo - there's no Japanese mono track.

Whatever!

- It's not DD5.1.

I would cite the Eastern Eye R4's, but they're NTSC>PAL - thus they're instant garbage.

Are all their Kurosawa titles NTSC to PAL? Even so I still reckon the R4 SS looks the best.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 24 Nov 2005, 20:47

bradavon wrote: Is it enveloping during the battle scenes Eva?

As I recall, it did.

Are all their Kurosawa titles NTSC to PAL?

As far as I know, all the ones I've seen have been. SS, Yojimbo, Sanjuro, Hidden Fortress.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Nov 2005, 11:05

Going by screen captures I still say SS looks far better on R4 EE than R1 CC.

I think I'll get the CC one despite that remix. Thanks Eva.

p.s - So CD WOW is the best then?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 01 Jan 2006, 22:50

DVD Times have posted a Ran: CC review with comparison pictures and the Criterion doesn't fair well:

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=59810

As you can see Criterion have added an unnecessary red tint, however two posters believe the Criterion looks better.

The DVD Beaver comparison says the Criterion is sharper but neglects to mention the red tint clearly evident in "their" captures (have they ever dissed a Criterion DVD?) -

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare2/ran.htm

They even add:

""The Criterion has the sharpest appearance (see capture # 2- the clothes) and the colors have the most natural, non-manipulated look."

It gets more complicated as the UK R2 is all but out of print; I can only find it at:

http://www.sendit.com/video/item/7000000062428

Luckily it's a decent price at £7.99 BUT for me I'd prefer the R4 anyway (DD5.1 remix) and again luckily it's cheap at DVD Crave for £8.60 -

http://www.dvdcrave.com/products/product.jsp?pid=25261

p.s - Put simply for those who prefer the UK R2 PQ and want the original Stereo soundtrack keep on to your UK R2.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 01 Jan 2006, 22:52

I'm now really confused which to get? The R4 for the better PQ + price or Criterion for extras (they do look much better)? Let's face the Criterion in reality isn't going to be a disaster anyway.

I maybe very happy with the Criterion but it is £17, that's more than I usually like to spend.

What do you guys think of the Criterion PQ (taking into account the DVD Beaver captures too)???

p.s - R4 review here:

The Region 2 does not have the trailer, which is only a minor difference in my opinion, but given the comparative quality of the transfer of the documentary extra, and the absence of the minor problems with the subtitles, the balance is tipped slightly in favour of the Region 4. The only drawback to the Region 4 is that the original audio mix is not offered as an alternative.

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Reviews/Re ... sp?ID=5153

jimmyscab · Post by **jimmyscab** » 02 Jan 2006, 00:01

UK R2 is OOP wtf ? so soon !

I watched the Wellspring version recently, admittedly is a bootleg, but I was considering getting the UK version for the supposidly excellent documentary. Especially since i saw it for damn cheap at Borders a few months back. Dont know what to do now, im not in a hurry to watch it again. Suppose i could buy the R4 at a later date but dont really want that 5.1 soundtrack i dont think Ran really needs an upmix. Badavon can you confirm the video transfer on the R4 is the same as the UK R2 and includes the doc?

The Criterion does look like a nice package but im not sure i like that red tint.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Jan 2006, 00:10

jimmyscab wrote:UK R2 is OOP wtf ? so soon !

I know it's very weird. I did a big search earlier and could barely find it anywhere.

I've heard VERY mixed reports on the documentary some say it's good but most say it's boring as hell and long.

Most sites don't list Ran UK R2 period and the rest say it's been withdrawn. Only Sendit still has it, you could always buy it now and watch it later.

Badavon can you confirm the video transfer on the R4 is the same as the UK R2 and includes the doc?

I don't own Ran period yet but this is what I now:

1. The documentary in question is on ALL the 2 disc releases of Ran (so Criterion, UK R2, French R2, R4). On the UK R2 it's cropped to 1.33:1 but on the Criterion and R4 it's at the proper aspect ratio of 1.85:1.

That R4 review I posted states the UK R2 documentary is rather bad quality too.

2. That R4 reviews states that the R4 looks the same as the UK R2 and I'm sure either Tom or Eva have also commented that it comes from the Studio Canal (i.e - French master).

It would make sense as this is the same master the UK R2 (by Warner Brothers) and R1 (by Criterion) have used. The R4 btw is a Universal title.

The UK R2 does have non-removable (they maybe burnt in but I don't think they are) large subtitles as apposed to the R4 removable smaller/more suitable subtitles.

I'd probably recommend you pick up the UK R2 now.

3. Annoyingly the R4 Ran has Japanese DD5.1 but English DD2.0 or German DD2.0, which is most stupid.

The Criterion does look like a nice package but im not sure i like that red tint.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I'll probably plump for the R4; £17 is a lot to spend on a DVD you're not entirely happy with.

p.s - It's Bradavon

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 02 Jan 2006, 00:22

The Criterion Ran does look a bloody mess

why they added a massive tint of orange and red to the picture is just insane

it looks like its set on mars!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Jan 2006, 01:30

The older R1 Masterworks version has the same problem.

So Romero you'd lose the R1 extras and get the UK R2 then?

jimmyscab · Post by **jimmyscab** » 02 Jan 2006, 01:39

bradavon wrote:The older R1 Masterworks version has the same problem.

It does ? thats the version I have and it looked fantastic to me, perhaps a little soft (intentional?) but the colours looked great. The problem with screenshots is comparing jpeg images side by side you can get overly critical. Take Ben Hur for example, the new 4 Disc set doesnt look as sharp as the older release yet people are saying it doesnt matter, on TV it still looks jaw dropping. The new UK Black Narcissus to my eyes looks like the colours are a bit off, yet most people say this is the best version and blows Criterion out the water.

Since i have the Masterworks version, i may go for the Criterion... expensive but hopefully get a new job soon so will need to burn that first pay cheque

p.s - It's Bradavon Wink

Yeah i know - typo ! Bad-Boy-Brad.

EDIT: looking at DVDbeaver's comparison http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare2/ran.htm

The UK R2 still has the best transfer IMO, perhaps looking a bit too bright in a few caps. The Masterworks actually looks pretty aweful now comparing to the others - halo city ! No doubt i need to upgrade, just unsure which version to get

But i think a purchase of Criterion's Kagamusha should take priority first 8)