I feel sorry for teachers.........

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 03 May 2005, 23:10

.....probably not something I would've said too often when I was at school. But everyday when I open the paper it seems there's a new incident of violent assault, verbal abuse or false accusation of some form of impropriety. Teachers have a horrendously difficult job. How can you teach the ones who want to learn when you're forced to look after the scum who don't....... as I'm typing this and watching the News At Ten I see a newspaper headline about a "boy" having raped a student teacher. What the hell is going on??? Going into school should require some kind of hazard pay and maybe a knife proof vest. The decline is standards certainly didn't start under Labour... but by Christ they've rushed it along. I left School in 1997 the year of Blair's first victory and since then it's gotten worse and worse.... Frankly if I were a kid now I'd be afraid to go to school.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 May 2005, 23:18

I have to mostly agree.

We've lost ALL respect for teachers. They do a hard job, that we all benefit from, don't get paid enough and quite frankly should be giving them much, much more respect.

The thing is school teachers aren't allowed by law to be strict anymore or at least they can only be slightly strict. I'm certainly not saying bring back the cane at all but it's no gone full circle.

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 04 May 2005, 22:21

it used to be the parents job to raise their kids with manners and a sense of right and wrong. It still should be but more and more these kids are coming into schools with no concept of decency, politeness and right and wrong. their parents consider it the school and the governments job to make their children into functioning members of society.

that combined with the whole claim culture thing that has built up means teachers are stuck between a rock and a hard place. One of my friends teaches maths to secondary school kids. he had one lad who was particularly disruptive, threatening teachers and kids alike, being generally verbally abusive in class. one time said lad was being a smart arse making some comment in class and my friend as the teacher came back with some witty retort which put down the lad. it shut the troublemaker up, the class was able to proceed but the lads parents lodged a complaint against my friendfor which he got a written warning.

during my first few years at primary school the slipper was still a form of punishment at school (having replaced the cane a number of years before) It was used sparingly as a punishment but still proved a good deterrent, you knew if you were sent to the headmasters office to get the slipper you had stepped over the line....

m.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 May 2005, 23:32

Mordib wrote:it used to be the parents job to raise their kids with manners and a sense of right and wrong. It still should be but more and more these kids are coming into schools with no concept of decency, politeness and right and wrong. their parents consider it the school and the governments job to make their children into functioning members of society.

I wish I could disagree but I can't.

Mordib wrote:the lads parents lodged a complaint against my friendfor which he got a written warning.

That is ludicrous. It's not like your friend swore or hit the kid.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 05 May 2005, 00:42

I think I just missed the corporal punishment years.

But when I was in Primary One I did get a slap on the leg. It stung cause I was wee. If that happened now I could've taken her to court. She was in her last year before retirement. But still, think of her pension money I could've spent on videos and shit. Complaints and litigation. Brilliant.

But ah, in those days you just sat quiet and waited for the bell to ring. Oh, how I suffered in silence. SOB.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 06 May 2005, 08:47

Well... first of all there are good and bad teachers. This goes without saying ofcourse, but I'll say it anyway. I had only a few teachers in my life who I felt really enjoyed their job, and enjoyed helping students learn. Most others were just there to get a paycheck. Not all of them, and perhaps some lost their joy in their work because of age, or because of all the buraucratic crap that comes with it... I dont know. But some teachers didnt give a fuck about the kids, and I guess if a teacher has that 'I dont give a fuck about you' attitude around him, it's no wonder some kids will get frustrated with it. I know I did, although I never got aggresive or disrespectfull to them.

Perhaps the cause is a mix of two things...

I dont know how it is in England, but in Holland classical teaching, with a teacher telling us a story and explaining things etc etc is all but dead. It's now more about self-educating and working, and there's a 'teacher' available in the classroom if you have anything to ask. So basically, each and every student must need to work independently. Personally, I think a teacher should just TEACH. I dont wanna be forced to read 50 pages of history, and tehn jut be quizzed. I wanna hear a guy TALK, reading together with us, explaining things on the go, making notes, etc etc.

Then there's group-projects, which mean we all have to work together with 4 or 5 people, for 1 grade. This never works. There are always 1-2 people who dont do shit. You get frustrated about it but the teach just says 'work it out among yourselfs'. Causes all kinds of frustration, cause you could get a bad grade while you did your task, but some other guy didnt do his task...

That's just the school-part for the aggression...

Ofcourse there's a reason behind the aggression. We all get aggitated and/or irritated at times, but only a few of us vent that in an aggressive or disrespectfull way. I think it has to do with the values you learn from your family, and your surroundings (friends, neighbourhood, school).

I was always taught to respect others (to a certain limit ofcourse) and that violence is wrong. I've been disrespectfull at rare times, but it was warranted, and I've been in a bunch of fights, but never provoked by myself (like I said, there's a limit to respect, and if you severely cross that limit and disrespect me in one way or another, I am gonna do the same, or worse...)
Others might not have been taught those values. Be it cause their from a poor family, a rich and/or spoiled family, a broken family, a 1 parent family... I dont know. I feel a parent should instill values. It's not all that hard, it doesnt take up a lot of time. It's all in your behaviour, your attitude, your views on the world, etc etc...
My mom told me not to lie, not to cheat, not to hurt other people basically. We are all the same. etc etc. She never forbid me stuff. I could have smoked if I wanted to. I could have started drinking if I wanted to... never felt the need.
I've done a few stupid things, but I never hurt people (well... 1 person I hurt, but that was a love-thing combined with bad timing and bad locationing...)

I think we need to a; look at the parenting- why are these parents absent!? Do they have to work too much/often to pay the bills, so they cant eb there for their kids!? Are these people just unintelligent and badly raised!? Do they just dont have any respect at all for anything!?

We also need to look at education: what causes the increase in immediate frustration at schools, with youths, etc. Is it bad future prospects, is it bad uninterested teaching? Is it too much pressure!?

Probably a combination of both, and one that we need to solve... but in order to solve it, our goverment and schools should also express respect to others. To other countries, to other religions, to other skincolors etc etc.

Our goverments dont even respect certain types of people, or certain nations... our leaders lie, cheat and decieve ... so why expect respect and values from a bunch of kids!?

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 06 May 2005, 23:55

Since I'm a teacher, I think I'll stay out of this one for now. I could write my doctoral thesis on this subject.

However, those of you who have witnessed the banter between Yi and me (and others) on the old forum might understand why I'm pulling out the following quote:

Yi-Long wrote: I've been disrespectfull at rare times

NO!!! Really?!?!

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 May 2005, 00:37

the68monkey wrote:Since I'm a teacher, I think I'll stay out of this one for now. I could write my doctoral thesis on this subject.

Your opinion is as valid as anyone's. Say what you think. It's your Bullets democratic right.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 May 2005, 19:05

Yeah go on 68 Monkey you more than anyone should have a say. It doesn't need to be a long.

Do you agree with us? Clearly you have a different perceptive than everyone else here. What age range do you teach?

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 08 May 2005, 15:25

Markgway wrote:Your opinion is as valid as anyone's. Say what you think. It's your Bullets democratic right.

I don't want to end up punishing myself by launching into what will essentially end up a rant.

Since I don't have any constructive advice at the moment, I don't want to launch into pointing fingers at various targets (except the children themselves).

As for age ranges, I started as a college writing instructor, but have since worked with elementary school children and am currently getting certification to work with middle grades (12-15 year olds).

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 May 2005, 18:42

the68monkey wrote:I don't want to end up punishing myself by launching into what will essentially end up a rant. Since I don't have any constructive advice at the moment, I don't want to launch into pointing fingers at various targets (except the children themselves).

You missed your calling as a diplomat.

Unrealnils · Post by **Unrealnils** » 13 May 2005, 15:43

Yeha my brothers a teacher and he teached two years in the us North Carolina to be excat and he said it was eaier then teaching in inner schools in london.........

Just goes to show our school kids are much worse then some belive.

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 13 May 2005, 17:44

68m, feel free to rant away, one of the best things about forums such as these is that you dont really have to be making a point (well you do if you want anybody to respond

) you can just let off steam ... about pretty much anything

UnrealNils.. i'm afraid i'm not very knowledgeable on the US education system, whats 'excat'??

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 13 May 2005, 17:48

I think that was a typo Mordib

He meant "exact"