Two Random Scenes I Directed

[thelostdragon]

Check out these two scenes I recently directed.
Yeah, I'm a lousy actor, but it was fun and it was also an opportunity to work with an old friend of mine. He and his friend were camera operators on this. Our work chemistry was great and I hence decided to include them into my next, bigger project.
Stay tuned...

Robbery & Hostage Situation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHDhlBm6_2I

Dramatic Arrest & Separation-Scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoB8Fc0vGeA

[Yi-Long]

Acting was decent enough, plus you're speaking in a foreign language so it's to be expected to come across a little bit 'awkward'.

Didn't like the camerawork though. A bit too close-up and shakey, thus giving off that 'amateur' vibe a bit too much. Also you might want to add a colour-filter or some noise to get more of a film-look!?

I'm not sure, but personally when you don't have REALLY good camera-men, I would choose to go for more of a Kim Ki Duk style of filming, which is pretty much a non-moving camera which just captures a great image in which all the action takes place. And just use more camera's (or re-takes) to get alternative angles.

[Markgway]

Good effort. The handheld look is par for the course on modern films so it doesn't look out of place (though it's not always to my own personal taste).

But that actor has to go!

[thelostdragon]

Thanks, guys!

@Yi:
Re: Shaky cam:
Are you talking about the arrest scene only or both scenes? Because a friend of mine told me that he thought the shaky cam was out of place during that dramatic arrest scene.
To be honest, I wanted that look and asked the two cameramen for it, because it was a random scene. For a feature film, I agree with you, though. For dramatic scenes I will be going for a non- or slightly-moving camera, because the camera will shake enough during action scenes (and I don't mean Bourne or Batman shaky-cam). Otherwise if you have a shaky camera throughout the whole film (action & drama scenes) the audience will puke..

@Mark:
Thanks. And you're right about that actor! Who hired this guy anyway?

[Yi-Long]

Both scenes, but in the arrest scene it was kinda fitting, cause you were also working with a fence and such. In the hostage scene the camera just felt a bit TOO close and hectic, and it just looked a bit ... predictable and cheap.

Personally, I would have done a reshoot, but then again, I'm pretty damn anal about getting stuff like this 'right'.

The way I feel is simple. Nowadays, all the stuff you need to make a professional looking movie is pretty damn accessible. Cameras are now very good quality for very affordable prices, plus editing software is pretty much free I think. So when 15 years ago you'd have the excuse of 'budget' to not do a reshoot, and accept 'ok' scenes instead of going for more than 'ok', in this current day and age that excuse doesn't hold up any more, so you'd want to get it just right.

I'm always amazed at amateur fight-scenes being uploaded where you can tell those involved have martial arts skills, but then it lacks speed, intensity, camera-angles are off, etc etc. I mean, IF you're going to do something, and show it to the world... why not invest a little more time into it all so you can demand a little bit more from what you're doing.

It also doesn't have much to do with the acting. When someone can't act, just let that person 'act' the bare minimum. Give him/her as few lines as possible, and let him/her deliver their lines with their own freedom, so it comes out in a way that's natural to THEM, instead of lines they're reading straight from the script. Obviously, for most actors (even professional ones), that's harder when it's in a foreign language instead of their own.

And when the cinematography and sound etc is all very good, you can get away with mediocre actors still looking good on screen.

I'm going to stick with Kim Ki Duk for my example: In Bin Jip/3-Iron there's the actor Hyoon Kyo Lee, who isn't a great actor, and in that movie he's playing a mute without much emotions on display, and does that very well Kim Ki Duk has a huge part in that performance being good and 'realistic'.

[thelostdragon]

Cameras are now very good quality for very affordable prices, plus editing software is pretty much free I think. So when 15 years ago you'd have the excuse of 'budget' to not do a reshoot, and accept 'ok' scenes instead of going for more than 'ok', in this current day and age that excuse doesn't hold up any more, so you'd want to get it just right.

Unfortunately, budget isn't only for renting a camera and software. In terms of equipment you need more than just a camera and editing software. Also, let's say you work with a hired cast & crew, they need to be paid for, the catering needs to be paid for, electricity, shooting permissions by the city, renting the same costumes and same props again etc. So many factors that cost money.

In our case obviously, I didn't have a crew or actors to pay. But it's a matter of time as well. How many hours can you shoot in winter before the sun goes down? Not many hours. We all have daily jobs and our own matters to attend to. So getting the same crew together is hard in terms of schedules and convincing them to get together just for a few takes of shots of a random scene is even more difficult.

Now for a short film or a feature film, it's a different matter. When cast & crew join such a project without pay they know what they have gotten involved with.

What I wrote here is not supposed to be an excuse of a cheap looking random scene, but merely an explanation of the fact that there is more than just the technical stuff and budget when it comes to low or no-budget projects.

[Yi-Long]

So when 15 years ago you'd have the excuse of 'budget' to not do a reshoot, and accept 'ok' scenes instead of going for more than 'ok', in this current day and age that excuse doesn't hold up any more, so you'd want to get it just right.

Unfortunately, budget isn't only for renting equipment. Let's say you work with a hired cast & crew, they need to be paid for, the catering needs to be paid for, electricity, shooting permissions by the city, renting the same costumes and same props again etc etc etc. So many factors that cost money.

In our case obviously, I didn't have a crew or actors to pay. But it's a matter of time as well. How many hours can you shoot in winter before the sun goes down? Not many hours. We all have daily jobs and our own matters to attend to. So getting the same crew together os hard in terms of schedules and convincing them to get together just for a few takes of a random shot is even more difficult.

Now for a short film or a feature film, it's a different matter. When cast & crew join such a project without pay they know what they have gotten involved with.

What I wrote here is not supposed to be an excuse of a cheap looking random scene, but merely an explanation of the fact that there is more than just the technical stuff and budget when it comes to low or no-budget projects.

Ofcourse, and I understand cause I know your friends will probably bitch and moan when you ask for take after tak after take until you're satisfied, although with relatively short scenes like this you can still demand a little more.

Also, like I said, the acting/performances weren't really the problem, but mostly the way it was shot, and that's also something which shouldn't take too much time to set up right when you just go through some frame-ups before you start shooting, so you know what you want and what it will look like, instead of figuring it out as you go along.

Again, like I said, PERSONALLY I would be really anal about stuff like that, but then again, before I start I would also already have it in my head how I want it so it wouldn't take that long to set-up.

A movie like La Haine didn't have a big budget (I think), and it just looked great, also because they choose a specific style (black and white). When your time and budget is limited you need to come up with solutions which will still make it look great.

BTW, about the 'costumes'. You often see in amateur movies, or cheap independent movies, that there has been a lot of thought about what everyone should be wearing, so you have gangsters in suits and sunglasses and packs of sigarettes sticking out etc. And very often those suits look worn and cheap, sunglasses look to be from the 80's, and everything is over-sized or undersized, cause the clothes are not the actors' own clothes, but borrowed/rented.

This often results in it looking like a dress-up party or a schoolplay.

I really hope you won't be making that mistake in your projects, cause it's unnecessary. You're making modern-day movies when you're on a budget, and that means the actors should have their own clothes,and they can wear them.

You think that if I'm a hitman, I'm gonna put on a long trenchcoat before I whack a guy? Nope. I just have my normal clothes on, my schoolbag with me with a magazine for on the train, and a can of soda for when I'm thirsty, and I'll just look like every other guy who's going to the city. You think a gangster is wearing a cheap suit all day? Nope. That's the beauty of being a gangster: casual everyday! Just wear some cool comfortable clothes. You can put the 'gangster' in there by using an expensive phone and some brand clothes.

So often you see people making a movie like this, on a budget, and they put a lot of thought into what they want it to look like, and then because of those budget restraints, they will settle for less instead of coming up with a solution that makes it work.

What I'm saying is: Don't set your sights high and then settle for less because you're limited by time and budget restraints. Do what you can accomplish, and do that greatly. Don't do a complicated fight-scene with actors who can't handle it. Don't do big acting scenes with people who can't act. Don't do special effects when you can't do them convincingly. Cause you have all the options for making a great movie even within the limitations.

Which I believe you can.

[thelostdragon]

Ofcourse, and I understand cause I know your friends will probably bitch and moan when you ask for take after tak after take until you're satisfied, although with relatively short scenes like this you can still demand a little more.

As I said, in our case it was a matter of sunlight, not a matter of asking for another shot. In this case I even asked my camera operators for these close-up shots.

Again, like I said, PERSONALLY I would be really anal about stuff like that, but then again, before I start I would also already have it in my head how I want it so it wouldn't take that long to set-up.

Have you ever thought about shooting something? Or have you shot something before? It's fun, you should try.

BTW, about the 'costumes'. You often see in amateur movies, or cheap independent movies, that there has been a lot of thought about what everyone should be wearing, so you have gangsters in suits and sunglasses and packs of sigarettes sticking out etc. And very often those suits look worn and cheap, sunglasses look to be from the 80's, and everything is over-sized or undersized, cause the clothes are not the actors' own clothes, but borrowed/rented.

I know exactly what you mean. It of course depends on what film you are making. If you intend to make a stylish gun ballet bloodshed film, I'm all for my actors to dress up "The Killer"-style. But it also depends on the story. I'm not against renting clothes for a film. If it's done well, with lots of thought and if you find the right costume which also happens to have the perfect size, it can look just as well. Here is an example of a scene where we had rented clothes and original clothes. We shot a couple of years back. I'm the guy in the kitchen. Guess which clothes were rented and which were not.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U98ZP9BA

Cause you have all the options for making a great movie even within the limitations.

Which I believe you can.

Thanks, buddy!

[Markgway]

The first rule of no budget filmmaking is to keep your ambitions realistic.

Avoid films that require good actors delivering lots of dialogue - ain't gonna happen unless you're best mates with a young DeNiro.

Forget about BIG action and fancy effects - they'll look crap.

I've often thought about giving it a go - making short subjects - but have never found the right ingredients. I'm sure I will take the plunge - maybe even this year. Who knows?

[thelostdragon]

Forget about BIG action and fancy effects - they'll look crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJvXfV87Aks

[Markgway]

Nicely done.

I'm presuming they had some kind of budget and graphic skills to achieve those effects.

And I did say FANCY effects, which by implication meant elaborate effects, not like those seen in the clip.

[Yi-Long]

Have you ever thought about shooting something? Or have you shot something before? It's fun, you should try.

Well, I have my problem with my health ofcourse, plus I don't really have all that many friends, and less that would be suitable or interested in doing this kinda stuff.
The one guy who MIGHT have been interested and capable died a couple of years ago.

So yeah, ofcourse I often thought about it, but it's just not very realistic.

In the past, kinda before the problems with my stomach, I was sure I would be able to get into cinema, and specifically action-cinema, simply because I could do stuff back then that the action-stars weren't doing yet (at least nto in western productions). So when you see guys like Van Damme and Norris and other stars doing martial arts movies and not really impressing with their skill (also often due to lazy/bad choreography btw), while your own skills are better, then obviously you think you have a shot.

Ofcourse, that was 15-20 years ago, and in the meantime the standard for martial arts in movies has gone WAY up, most of it now out of my league (even when I was in my prime).

So I always used to think I could be in those movies. When more and more it became clear after some injuries, and my healthproblems increasing, that that's not very realistic, I've thought about writing and directing stuff...

... but TBH, it just seems very difficult to set up and go out and actually do it. Everything I want and have thought off is in my head, yet I wouldn't have a clue as to how to get about actually doing it all in a proper manner, thus with people around me who can do what I ask them and are knowledgeable about the stuff I want but don't know enough about (like audio-recording outside, lighting, filters, etc).

[gasteropod]

plus I don't really have all that many friends

That surprises me actually, you've very funny and always seem to have interesting things to say on most topics.

[Yi-Long]

plus I don't really have all that many friends

That surprises me actually, you've very funny and always seem to have interesting things to say on most topics.

I didn't say I blamed myself for the fact I don't have any friends. It's the rest of humanity that sucks!



Nah, I can get along with almost anyone pretty easily, but I'm bad at keeping in contact cause I really don't want to bother people too much, and I'm usually not interested enough in their lifes to fake a consistent interest. Plus I'm not that outgoing and a bit of a loner.

Me being a bit stuck at home because of the stomach problems which means I don't go to school or work, probably doesn't help much either.

Thanks btw

[thelostdragon]

... but TBH, it just seems very difficult to set up and go out and actually do it.

Depends. The hard part is finding investors who believe in you and your ideas. Making a self-financed film is very difficult. Not the "going-out-and-actually-doing it"-part, but setting all up. But it is worth it and in the end there is nothing else I would really like to do full-time, because this is the only thing I believe I am good at and the only field of work where I'm willing to work hard to improve.

Everything I want and have thought off is in my head, yet I wouldn't have a clue as to how to get about actually doing it all in a proper manner, thus with people around me who can do what I ask them and are knowledgeable about the stuff I want but don't know enough about (like audio-recording outside, lighting, filters, etc).

When I have an idea for a big movie and tell people about it, most of them pretty much ask me the same stuff you are worrying about here. "How are you gonna do this? How are you gonna do that? How will you get cast & crew? How will you do the visual effects?" You guys are talking about the last couple of metres of climbing a mountain. Start worrying about the bottom first. I always tell them, "Shit! What am I gonna wear on the red carpet at the premiere of my film?" Right, that's something to worry about when the time is right to actually worry about it.

First things first. If you worry about all the aspects of making a film at once, you will get nowhere. So the first step to do is to actually write down what you have thought of. It won't be of any use if it is in your head. This summer in Istanbul I'm gonna shoot a part of a feature film I wrote. Before I got cast & crew I spent about 8 months writing 80 pages of a screenplay. This helps to convince cast & crew, because it gives them a feeling of, "OK, this guy doesn't only talk, he actually believes in his story so much, that he sat his ass down and wrote the thing."

And if you actually have a great story, you can even get A-list actors to be in it for free. It's all been done before, no reason why it can't be done now. You just need to get the word out. Let close people read your second draft (never the first), get their opinions, start work on the third draft and once it is finished start sending the bugger out to people that actually matter in terms of getting your film made.

That's a start. I'm not worrying about "audio-recording outside, lighting, filters, etc". That's what the crew will be there for. That will be their job. Your job as the guy who wants to get the film made, the director, is to get the right cast & crew together.

[Yi-Long]

... but TBH, it just seems very difficult to set up and go out and actually do it.

Depends. The hard part is finding investors who believe in you and your ideas. Making a self-financed film is very difficult. Not the "going-out-and-actually-doing it"-part, but setting all up. But it is worth it and in the end there is nothing else I would really like to do full-time, because this is the only thing I believe I am good at and the only field of work where I'm willing to work hard to improve.

The ideas that I have for the movies I would want to make, would be able to shoot on an extremely limited budget...
Maybe that's also because I'm thinking of these ideas KNOWING that I'd never actually have a budget.

I do have some ideas for 'bigger' movies, but even those wouldn't have special effects and stuff. I'd like to make a serious ninja movie in Japan with kids, and just focus on what it actually means seeing young kids being trained as killers, spies, seducers, etc etc. Most of the time movies about ninjas are very focussed on certain aspects of being a ninja, mostly highlighting bloodshed and such, but I would like to use actual YOUNG kids (probably taken from a gymnastics/circus/wushu group), and just making something which is both sweet as well as horryfyingly brutal in it's realisme. That would cost a bit more than the usual modern-day stuff I would think off, but again, not THAT much more...

Everything I want and have thought off is in my head, yet I wouldn't have a clue as to how to get about actually doing it all in a proper manner, thus with people around me who can do what I ask them and are knowledgeable about the stuff I want but don't know enough about (like audio-recording outside, lighting, filters, etc).

When I have an idea for a big movie and tell people about it, most of them pretty much ask me the same stuff you are worrying about here. "How are you gonna do this? How are you gonna do that? How will you get cast & crew? How will you do the visual effects?" You guys are talking about the last couple of metres of climbing a mountain. Start worrying about the bottom first. I always tell them, "Shit! What am I gonna wear on the red carpet at the premiere of my film?" Right, that's something to worry about when the time is right to actually worry about it.

First things first. If you worry about all the aspects of making a film at once, you will get nowhere. So the first step to do is to actually write down what you have thought of. It won't be of any use if it is in your head. This summer in Istanbul I'm gonna shoot a part of a feature film I wrote. Before I got cast & crew I spent about 8 months writing 80 pages of a screenplay. This helps to convince cast & crew, because it gives them a feeling of, "OK, this guy doesn't only talk, he actually believes in his story so much, that he sat his ass down and wrote the thing."

And if you actually have a great story, you can even get A-list actors to be in it for free. It's all been done before, no reason why it can't be done now. You just need to get the word out. Let close people read your second draft (never the first), get their opinions, start work on the third draft and once it is finished start sending the bugger out to people that actually matter in terms of getting your film made.

That's a start. I'm not worrying about "audio-recording outside, lighting, filters, etc". That's what the crew will be there for. That will be their job. Your job as the guy who wants to get the film made, the director, is to get the right cast & crew together.

Well, there are obviously the realstic problems with my health which also kinda keeps me from doing this stuff. I can't manage a set if I don't know if I'll be able to actually be on the set. And like I said, I'm extremely anal, so I want to have a hand in everything and learn about everything etc etc. I'm not anal in that I'm constantly bitching or moaning or whatever, cause I hardly ever get angry at anyone when shit doesn't go as planned, but when I was in school and we had to work on projects in groups, it mostly ended up that you couldn't trust the others to do their part so I'd end up doing most of it myself in order to not get a bad grade.

Which I don't even mind, however, that also means I don't need to have those other people around picking their nose.
So with that experience with working with others, It kinda taught me that I mostly prefer to be independent, figure stuff out on my own, and it just goes a whole lot quicker that way instead of people dragging me down to their pace. Plus I don't really like it when you would have a whole lot of people around doing stuff for eachother which everyone should easily be able to do themselfs...

Also, although actings seems like the greatest job in the world and I think I would actually be good at it (acting, not action anymore), there's kinda the problem that I wouldn't want to be famous, which would be kinda a catch-22 if you want to be an actor. Although I'd probably lean towards side-parts anyway. I'd prefer to be an actor like David Morse instead of a lead actor. Not that I'm a huge fan of David Morse btw, but he's always playing these smaller roles and does those well enough that you know him,but you never really KNOW him.

Oh well.... pipe dreams...