Battle Royale question (possible upgrade)?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 20 Mar 2005, 15:00

Is there a decent DVD of the Theatrical Cut (with DTS) out there? The HK DVD has superb DTS (not that I can listen as my amp isn't connected at the mo) but looks awful.

AFAIK the only UK DVD with DTS is BR: Longer version, but the TC was fine IMO (though the Longer print did show the kids bonding more).

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 20 Mar 2005, 15:55

(though the Longer print did show the kids bonding more).

Did it ?

Actually the DC is more violent (there's more blood) and gunfire is louder.

To be more accurate, the sound of gunfire was reduced on the TC to make it less shocking. DTS is pretty much useless in that case IMO.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 20 Mar 2005, 16:22

Yes, with the inclusion of scenes like the baseketball scene, it showed them bonding more IMO

I know the DC had more blood, but I didnt know the gunfire was reduced on the TC. The DTS (full rate) on the R3 (TC) was amazing IMO.

That said, about the DC I did like the small bit of plotting with Mitsuko (explaining why she is the way she is)

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 Mar 2005, 16:39

Personally except for the montage at the end (I tend to stop the film a few mins early) the DC/EC is a better film. It's subtle though.

As for the TC with DTS I've never seen one but tbh the DD5.1 is so furious for these DVDs I doubt the DTS is greatly better. I know Bruce used to own the Korean DC with DTS and the UK DC Tin and he said the DD5.1 on that was better, it had better base.

I'm pretty sure it's now OOP but if you can find it the Tartan NTSC 5.1 version is the best version of the TC. The second version Tartan released.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 20 Mar 2005, 17:32

I think the NTSC 5.1 edition is still on sale at Play, as is the 2 disc DC (Tin and non Tin). It is expensive though (£14.49 and £16.99 respectively).
I'll think about what to do, if I can find either one cheap (and watch the R3 again to compare the DTS once my speakers are in) I may bin the R3 then.
Funny as I thought the R3 DTS was amazing.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 Mar 2005, 17:42

grim_tales wrote:Funny as I thought the R3 DTS was amazing.

Did you listen to the DD5.1 though? Not all 5.1 mixes are the same, it's very possible the DD5.1 mix found on the Tartan DVDs is different to the DTS mix on the HK DVD.

I can only find the NTSC 5.1 version at Play and considering Tartan DVDs rarely/if ever go cheap if you want it you're going to have to pay £14.99. I believe it was only a limited pressing anyway (not in the LE sense but limited for usual DVD releases), many sites never stocked it and it was quickly replaced by the Tin version.

If I were to buy this now I'd get the Tartan 2 Disc DTS non-tin version. Which is also around £15, it is around a tenner from ebay though:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 6377259003

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Mar 2005, 23:13

A comparison to help you decide:

https://www.bulletsnbabesdvds.net/conten ... ntentid=31

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Mar 2005, 01:01

Sounds like the Tartan NTSC is worth tracking down.

Pity the review didn't do actual cap comparisons so we could see for ourselves. But I'm sure the opinions are fairly apt.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Mar 2005, 01:36

I owned the NTSC 5.1 version for a few weeks and it's great quality, as good as the other anamorphic Tartan versions anyway.

If you want it/the TC then I suggest you get it from Play asap as I doubt they'll be getting anymore stock once theirs' have gone. I never saw it for sale in the shops period.

I find it very strange Tartan now have two choices for the film:

1. The 2 disc DTS SE
2. The original uber crap DVD-5

This far superior NTSC 5.1 version you'd think would replace the DVD-5 version but it never did/has. I can't work that one out. Did you notice who the reviewer is? Tis a very old review. I'm surprised you've not seen it before.

French TC vs. UK NTSC 5.1 TC vs. HK TC:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompar ... ale-th.htm

The French DVD is the best here.

Korean Starmax DC vs. Korean Cream DC vs. UK Tin DC:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompar ... ale-dc.htm

All that twodle when the Korean Starmax DTS version came out about it being better quality looks to be tosh (just because it's on a DVD-9). I always thought it was.

I'm more than happy with my Tartan Tin DC.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Mar 2005, 02:17

Grim/Mark - Bruce Leeory has the NTSC 5.1 version or at least he used to. I know because I sold it to him. You may want to pm him to see if he wants to sell it.

You never know!

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Mar 2005, 10:40

I wouldn't pay Play's asking price.... and I doubt Bruce would sell it.

Oh, and yeah, Tartan suck.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Mar 2005, 10:53

Just checked out that Beaver link... and the French DVD is (unsurprisingly) waaaaaaay better than the Tartan NTSC edition. If THAT in itself is waaaaaaay better than the PAL edition then that must be ubershite.

Does anyone know of a comparison between the Tartan PAL and NTSC editions? (The French release is non-subbed so no point even thinking about it).

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 25 Mar 2005, 11:38

Just checked out that Beaver link... and the French DVD is (unsurprisingly) waaaaaaay better than the Tartan NTSC edition.

Ahem...not really.

I own both versions and I have to say that the french dvd is crap.

They removed the blue and orange filters that were present in all other editions.
Some scenes that take place in night-time now look like they were shot during daytime.

If you don't have the french dvd, don't worry. You're not missing much.
( http://img229.exs.cx/img229/46/COMP.jpg )

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 25 Mar 2005, 11:44

Does anyone know of a comparison between the Tartan PAL and NTSC editions?

Here's a small comparison I made from the Beaver comparisons.
It might not be entirely accurate, though:

http://img190.exs.cx/img190/24/COMPTART.jpg

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Mar 2005, 11:53

Aaarrgghh!! That PAL disc is K-rap!!

(Thanks for the comp, Tom)

Can't say I'm too upset about the flaws on the French disc since It's no good to me anyways...

But you agree the picture quality is much better than the Tartan NTSC, filters aside, which at least cap wise looks terrible.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 25 Mar 2005, 12:10

At Play, the NTSC 5.1 is £14.49 and the 2 discer is £16.99, as the prices are similar I'm leaning towrds the 2 discer now

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 25 Mar 2005, 12:36

Anyone know what this version is at CD-WOW? From the features it looks like the 2 disc Tartan SE but its' said theres only 1 disc and the sound is Japanese Dolby Surround?

The cover looks awful:

http://www5.cd-wow.com/detail_results_2 ... _code=9603

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 25 Mar 2005, 12:45

Anyone know what this version is at CD-WOW?

Australian edition. Stay away from it !

But you agree the picture quality is much better than the Tartan NTSC, filters aside

100%.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Mar 2005, 14:38

Markgway wrote:I wouldn't pay Play's asking price.... and I doubt Bruce would sell it.

You don't know if you don't ask. Besides Bruce often trades DVDs he loves but hasn't watched for ages. I'm sure he owns both versions of the film.

Markgway wrote:Oh, and yeah, Tartan suck.

IMO Tartan used to suck but bar their NTSC to PAL conversions they're now a very good company. People to forget this and only concentrate on the NTSC to PAL issue.

Even with that their transfers are much, much better than they used to be and are still very good anyway. Besides now Tartan are starting to distribute in the US for those who hate NTSC to PAL can get the R1. The range of titles they have far surpasses their competition. There is no independent label who even comes close in the amount of titles they have and are continuing to get.

So I ask why do Tartan suck?

Markgway wrote:Just checked out that Beaver link... and the French DVD is (unsurprisingly) waaaaaaay better than the Tartan NTSC edition. If THAT in itself is waaaaaaay better than the PAL edition then that must be ubershite.

Which PAL edition do you mean? The original or the Tin or the current DTS release?

The original release was taken from a cinema print (as was normal back then for Tartan) and is awful by anyone's standards. The two current DVDs are much better. I own the Tin version and to me anyway it's as good as the NTSC one. Which is as good as the Japanese DVDS! This is an important point to make.

It annoys me how members wax lyrical about how good French DVDs are. Sure they are good but they cost (generally) a bloody fortune. What do you expect? Often the prices are similar to the uber expensive/rip off Japanese DVDs.

Tom2681 wrote:It might not be entirely accurate, though:

http://img190.exs.cx/img190/24/COMPTART.jpg

Are we talking the theatrical cuts here?

As listing it as merely PAL vs. NTSC is very confusing. The Tartan NTSC theatrical cut is bound to be much much better than the Tartan PAL theatrical cut.

Markgway wrote:But you agree the picture quality is much better than the Tartan NTSC, filters aside, which at least cap wise looks terrible.

It's actually very good. As I said as good as the Japanese and Korean DVDs.

You're the first person to really have an issue with it I've read.

Do you own Battle Royale?

grim_tales wrote:At Play, the NTSC 5.1 is £14.49 and the 2 discer is £16.99, as the prices are similar I'm leaning towrds the 2 discer now

They're two different cuts though. I thought the whole point you started this thread was two get the theatrical cut?

The 2 Disc SE is cheaper at DVD Popcorn who I recommend (£15.25):

http://www.dvdpopcorn.com/DVDDetails.as ... ctID=46692

grim_tales wrote:Anyone know what this version is at CD-WOW? From the features it looks like the 2 disc Tartan SE but its' said theres only 1 disc and the sound is Japanese Dolby Surround?

It's god awful. The reason it's only Dolby Surround is because they wanted to fit all those extras on to a single layer disc.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 25 Mar 2005, 14:44

Yeah you're right.

I might double dip though... the DC had some better backstory in it (for example the flashback scenes with Mitsuko, explaining why she's a psycho).

Funny in that beaver comparison both Tartan DVDs (theatrical) look poor compared to the French. I'm sure the NTSC Tartan will look better than the HK DVD (in fact, as you say, as good as the Japanese DVDs).

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Mar 2005, 14:52

bradavon wrote:You don't know if you don't ask. Besides Bruce often trades DVDs he loves but hasn't watched for ages. I'm sure he owns both versions of the film.

Is he back in the U.K yet?

So I ask why do Tartan suck?

How about because they've released Battle Royale FOUR(!) times and have still to do a definative version? How about charging full price for every release regardless of extras and quality? How about releasing FIVE versions of Hard-Boiled, finally getting it close to right, then putting on zero frickin' extras?

Which PAL edition do you mean? The original or the Tin or the current DTS release?

The PAL release is VERY shite. The NTSC release is quite shite. Wasn't talking about the "DC". Aside from the filtering issues Tom mentions the French release looks vastly superior.

It annoys me how members wax lyrical about how good French DVDs are. Sure they are good but they cost (generally) a bloody fortune. What do you expect? Often the prices are similar to the uber expensive/rip off Japanese DVDs.

You get what you pay for!! Besides it has nothing to do with cost. Tartan COULD produce the same results IF they knew what they were doing first time round (or even cared that much...) . The French don't have special equipment that no one else in the world has access to.

It's actually very good. As I said as good as the Japanese and Korean DVDs. You're the first person to really have an issue with it I've read.

Just going by those caps posted... it may look better (one would hope) in the flesh so to speak.

Do you own Battle Royale?

Yes, the shite PAL version which I got via a trade. Only watched in once on my old TV. Frightened to try it on my 16:9 screen. :x

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Mar 2005, 16:41

Markgway wrote:Is he back in the U.K yet?

I wasn't aware he was away until Grim said you said. When did he go? E-mail him.

Markgway wrote:How about because they've released Battle Royale FOUR(!) times and have still to do a definative version? How about charging full price for every release regardless of extras and quality? How about releasing FIVE versions of Hard-Boiled, finally getting it close to right, then putting on zero frickin' extras?

I'd say the last 3 DVDs were definitive, except for no extras on the TC. Besides the first was made in the old Tartan days, all their releases were rubbish. The second is a bit of a weird one and was clearly rushed out a bit which turned out to help it, as it's not been fakely converted into PAL. The third was always intended as a limited edition (even if it was a loose LE in this case). So it was clear eventually a "normal" version would come to replace it.

The current DVD is the same PQ as the Japanese DVD (apart from NTSC to PAL issues "maybe"), has a second disc of extras that are the same as the Japanese DVD and has DTS. What more do you want? Apart from a 3 disc release also including the theatrical cut, that would be cool!

Every comment/review I've ever read is happy as larry with these DVDs. Some moaned about Tartan using single layers discs for the tin this has been correct for the current SE.

Markgway wrote:The PAL release is VERY shite. The NTSC release is quite shite. Wasn't talking about the "DC". Aside from the filtering issues Tom mentions the French release looks vastly superior.

This could go on forever though. Mastering techniques get better so it's very possible an even better version will come out. It doesn't mean the current Tartan DVDs are definitive.

Like I said the Tartan DVDs are the same quality as the Japanese DVDs. I wouldn't say the French DVD is vastly superior anyway, betters yes but not vastly.

Markgway wrote:Besides it has nothing to do with cost. Tartan COULD produce the same results IF they knew what they were doing first time round (or even cared that much...) . The French don't have special equipment that no one else in the world has access to.

I completely agree but it's just normal for DVD that Japanese and French DVDs are usually better = they cost more. Besides if you knew you could charge twice the price for the same DVD you'd spend more creating it.

Don't get me wrong Tartan are far from perfect I just think the Tartan today is a very good company, overall.

Markgway wrote:Yes, the shite PAL version which I got via a trade. Only watched in once on my old TV. Frightened to try it on my 16:9 screen. :x

You've really not seen the film at it's best then. You want English subs so stop moaning and get one/two of the Tartan DVDs. The R4 is rubbish (far worse than these Tartan DVDs) so that nocks off Australia/New Zealand.

There is no US DVD and it's unlikely one is coming anytime soon (especially with the recent school shootings).

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Mar 2005, 19:31

bradavon wrote:What more do you want? Apart from a 3 disc release also including the theatrical cut, that would be cool!

You answered your own question. I want the theatrical cut with image quality as good as on the French DVD (no filter problems, mind), the same extras that the JP DVD has, and the option of the Director's Cut. Five DVDs and Tartan STILL hasn't managed it? Am I asking too much. Certainly not.

I completely agree but it's just normal for DVD that Japanese and French DVDs are usually better = they cost more. Besides if you knew you could charge twice the price for the same DVD you'd spend more creating it.

There's no reason for it to be this way except for UK laziness. The French DVDs are better because they give a toss. Yes, expensive. But that's frankly a side issue. It's not like the Tartan editions are budget. Remember the first PAL release is 19.99 GBP.

Markgway wrote:You've really not seen the film at it's best then.

I also saw it theatrically.

You want English subs so stop moaning and get one/two of the Tartan DVDs.

It's not moaning to want the best at a fair price. When the NTSC Tartan can be gotten at a price I find acceptable I'll buy it. I'm not going to be ripped off.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Mar 2005, 00:20

Markgway wrote:You answered your own question. I want the theatrical cut with image quality as good as on the French DVD (no filter problems, mind), the same extras that the JP DVD has, and the option of the Director's Cut. Five DVDs and Tartan STILL hasn't managed it? Am I asking too much. Certainly not.

You don't ask much. Next you will say you want all that at a "fair price". What's funny you don't even own one of these DVDs. You're basing all this on a bunch of DVD Beaver captures.

FIVE DVDs, next you will increase it to SIX no doubt. It's FOUR DVDs as you said yourself. To ask for a 3 disc release at the price you'd want to pay (sub £14.49) then yes you are asking to much.

Markgway wrote:It's not like the Tartan editions are budget. Remember the first PAL release is 19.99 GBP.

No one actually pays that for DVDs though. The RRP is always completely different to what is actually charged (in store or online).

Markgway wrote:It's not moaning to want the best at a fair price. When the NTSC Tartan can be gotten at a price I find acceptable I'll buy it. I'm not going to be ripped off.

By then it will be long since gone. AFAIK it went OOP a long time ago plus most e-tailors don't sell it anyway.

I guess we should be pleased Play even still sell it. I agree Play are asking to much but it's not like we have much choice or wait we do it was on ebay until recently for a tenner!

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Mar 2005, 10:46

A lot of stores (HMV and the like) DO charge the RRP for some of their DVDs...