Random discussion about piracy

[Yi-Long]

I dont consider a PSP a 'console', just a handheld. I would never have bought the PSP if it wouldnt have been able to play downloaded games, as I hardly play on it.

Maybe that's double standards, but a guy only has a certain amount of cash, and I spend mine on books, DVD's and games for the home-consoles. Anime, PC-games and stuff like this, I download. Mostly because I hardly ever play PC games (also because of all the crap with patches and fixes and specs etc), anime is hard to buy decent versions for (which I do buy btw, when it is available for a fair price), and the PSP I hardly play on at all. I'm pretty much always at home instead of on the road.

[Shingster]

You wouldn't steal a car would you Yi!
You wouldn't stab a man to death and steal his shoes!

STOP this piracy you knock off Nigel!!!

[bradavon]

Contrary to what the big music and film companies like to tell us with their propganda I don't believe stealing a car is in anyway comparable to "copying" music or movies.

Sorry it just isn't. Sure I can see their point when we're talking about small labels/bands/films but these companies still easily make millions a year. My heart bleeds for them.

[grim_tales]

I agree that it hurts small films/bands Brad (thats why they say "piracy costs jobs" etc) but I dont see how piracy funds terrorism?

[Yi-Long]

You wouldn't steal a car would you Yi!

Nope I wouldnt

You wouldn't stab a man to death and steal his shoes!

Nope I wouldnt

STOP this piracy you knock off Nigel!!!

Who the fuck is Nigel!?

Anyway, it's ridiculous to say downloading a game is the same as stealing a car, or that it's even the same as stealing a game from a shop.

Let's quit the hypocritical bullshit about piracy being 'wrong' and that you guys are all saints who buy everything in the shops.

We all download music. Most of us have a couple of 'illegal' programs on their PC (Photoshop, whatever), and when I'm not sure if an anime is any good, I'll download it, just as everyone else.

And no, piracy is in no way HURTING the small films/bands. It actually widens up people's taste as it makes people try new stuff. Just look at how many people were interested in buying Kung Fu Hustle after they were introduced to Chow Sing Chi through downloading Shaolin Soccer.
Just look at how well anime and manga are doing now in the rest of world, now that everyone has access to it online. Would I have bought 30+ manga of Naruto if I would never have seen the show!? No. Would I be buying the boxset fo Mushishi or Death Note if I hadnt downloaded and enjoyed it first?
Is Adobe hurting from so many people downloading their product and getting to know it inside out!? Hell no, as those people will find jobs in the industry where their employers will have to give them the tools (in this case adobe) to produce work; thus having to buy the legal product.

It's ridiculous to think piracy is hurting the industry. Just look at radiohead offering their whole cd for free online, and still making a very nice big profit on people who bought the cd, or donated money.

It's crappy artists who get hyped up, that are hurting. You can have a huge marketing machine for some lame singer, but when people try out the music first, they find that it isnt worth buying, and the CD's dont get sold. Boo-fucking-hoo.
I'm sure the big bosses who take advantage of young artists and hyped nobodies to make billions of dollars, now feel they are missing income... but it's not like I gove a shit about them, seeing how much they have been charging us for simple CD's for over 20 years now...

Like I said, I still buy DVDs as I feel they ARE good value for money (usually just buy them when their on sale though), and I buy games (again, pretty much only when they're on sale).
I dont buy CDs, for multiple and obvious reasons. I dont buy over-expensive 'professional' software, for obvious reasons. I dont buy PC games for obvious reasons (specs, patches, etc), and I dont buy PSP or DS games.

Some products are worth the money. Some arent. If someone is a huge music freak, he doesnt mind paying 10-15 euro for a CD. I do. If someone is a huge PC Gamer, he doesnt care if a game costs 50 euro and doesnt work properly on his machine. I do.

I think piracy helps the industry. Figures seem to support my claim as well, because although we are in a recession, the profits in the entertainmentbusiness are still growing more and more and more.
People have a certain amount to spend. They will spend it. downloading stuff just means they can try it out first.

[bradavon]

I used to work for the police and even some/all of them copied software, music and movies probably too .

And no, piracy is in no way HURTING the small films/bands. It actually widens up people's taste as it makes people try new stuff.

You're half right. Yes it does obviously allow more people to see/hear the artist/movie but likewise if an artist/movie is so small their finances could easily also be heart too. Besides most copied material is made by massive million/billion dollar companies so it's mostly a moot point.

I do think your logic that music is different to movies just because less people worked on it is odd and illogical though . But like I said in general I pretty much agree with you.

I think piracy helps the industry. Figures seem to support my claim as well, because although we are in a recession, the profits in the entertainmentbusiness are still growing more and more and more.

Agreed. On paper it doesn't but in reality it tends to work that way.

Album sales are always increasing, as are single downloads. The Dark Knight is making 300 million.

That said in some parts of the world piracy is a serious issue, no not in North America or Western Europe but it's so unrestricted in Russia and Asia that cinemas are going out of business.

Back in 2002 when I was in Malaysia I was told there used to be a dozen cinemas in Kuala Lumpur, when I was there there was 2 and one was out of town. As piracy was so freely available virtually no one went to the cinema any more.

It's worth taking on board Yi that millions of people do not buy music or movies if they can get it free. It made their favourite movie ever made but they'll still put up with shite quality because it's free.

My Dad hasn't been to the cinema in years, he downloads it all. He does occasionally buy CDs. He's simply too lazy to go and prefers watching woeful downloads. One of my best mates hasn't paid for movies or music for years, except at Xmas/Birthdays. He does go to the cinema.

[EvaUnit02]

I dont buy PC games for obvious reasons (specs, patches, etc), and I dont buy PSP or DS games.

Some products are worth the money. Some arent. If someone is a huge music freak, he doesnt mind paying 10-15 euro for a CD. I do. If someone is a huge PC Gamer, he doesnt care if a game costs 50 euro and doesnt work properly on his machine. I do.

I think piracy helps the industry.

Stop going off-topic. This is specifically about game piracy.

I'm sorry but you're wrong, it does hurt the PC specific part of the industry. Largely because of piracy there's been a huge decline in PC audience specific games, games that have a certain technical depth that goes over the head of the average console gamer. Aside from The Witcher, I can't remember the last blockbuster single player RPG that had as rich game mechanics that one would expect from the genre. The simulation genre is pretty much dead.

The majority of PC releases coming these days? MMOs and console game ports. Those aforementioned ports are more often then not, not properly optimised. Multiplatform developers have been seeing the PC platform as an afterthought because under the belief of "Why bother going to the extra effort? We aren't going to see many sales on that platform anyway?"

Eg crap or non-existent implementation of support for mouse + KB; menus that are awkward to navigate with a mouse or maybe don't support cursor browsing at all; low res textures; unbalanced difficulties for singleplayer; stupidly high system requirements for games that should run on much less.

Let's take Resident Evil 4 - that could've been the definitive version of the game. Aside from the natural graphical benefits, mouse look could've taken that game's controls to a whole 'nother level. Instead we got port of the significantly gimped PS2 version, rather than the Gamecube original, with no mouse support at all.

[Yi-Long]

I used to work for the police and even some/all of them copied software, music and movies probably too .

At my internship-workplace, most of the workers also downloaded all kinds of stuff. It's everywhere. No biggie. At school when students asked how we would be able to do homework without having those programs at home, teachers would just tell us to download it, or find someone in your class 'who has it'.

And no, piracy is in no way HURTING the small films/bands. It actually widens up people's taste as it makes people try new stuff.

You're half right. Yes it does obviously allow more people to see/hear the artist/movie but likewise if an artist/movie is so small their finances could easily also be heart too. Besides most copied material is made by massive million/billion dollar companies so it's mostly a moot point.

Hey, here's an idea for young talented strugling artists who need money: PERFORM!
If you're good, you'll make money. If you're bad, no one will download your shit anyway.

I do think your logic that music is different to movies just because less people worked on it is odd and illogical though . But like I said in general I pretty much agree with you.

Well, if a CD where 20-30 people have worked on the whole thing, so from actual performing, recording, marketing, etc... I dont understand why that 70-minute CD has to cost 10-15 bucks, when a Hollywood movie which has cost a hundred million to produce, many millions to market, has more than 1000 people on the payroll, having it put on DVD instead of on CD, is 2-3 hours longs, plus you get extra's like making-offs and trailers etc, is also only 10-15 bucks. The prices for cd's are just too high, which is why people are resorting to downloading. DVD's still sell like hotcakes cause people feel it's a fair price for what they're getting.

I think piracy helps the industry. Figures seem to support my claim as well, because although we are in a recession, the profits in the entertainmentbusiness are still growing more and more and more.

Agreed. On paper it doesn't but in reality it tends to work that way.

Album sales are always increasing, as are single downloads. The Dark Knight is making 300 million.

That said in some parts of the world piracy is a serious issue, no not in North America or Western Europe but it's so unrestricted in Russia and Asia that cinemas are going out of business.

Back in 2002 when I was in Malaysia I was told there used to be a dozen cinemas in Kuala Lumpur, when I was there there was 2 and one was out of town. As piracy was so freely available virtually no one went to the cinema any more.

It's worth taking on board Yi that millions of people do not buy music or movies if they can get it free. It made their favourite movie ever made but they'll still put up with shite quality because it's free.

Those people dont feel 10-15 bucks for a DVD is worth it. Even without piracy, they probably wouldnt be buying dvd's. Prices would probably be even HIGHER without piracy, thus meaning less people would actually buy it.

About the cinema's in Malaysia. I'm sure piracy pays a part in it. People in those parts of the world also are getting the newer technologies in their homes now. Before, they didnt have VCD and DVD players, but obviously the last 10 years orso it has become more and more affordable, so for many they HAD to go out to the cinema to see a movie, and now they can stay at home.
Yeah, piracy plays a part in that. The decline in quality in good asian movies also probably plays a part. People enjoying their entertainment in their own home plays a part.

You'll see that here in the west as well: the more and more people will get a plasma screen, a BRplayer, etc... the less they will wanna go out to a cinema to be overcharged to sit in a crowded, sticky cinema.
Why spend 20-30 bucks on cinema-tickets when you can buy a movie, drinks and snacks for under 15 bucks and have a great night comfortably at home!?

My Dad hasn't been to the cinema in years, he downloads it all. He does occasionally buy CDs. He's simply too lazy to go and prefers watching woeful downloads. One of my best mates hasn't paid for movies or music for years, except at Xmas/Birthdays. He does go to the cinema.

It's different for different kinds of people. Some will feel going to the cinema IS worth it. Others wont. Same goes for music, games, dvds, etc. People WILL spend money on entertainment, but not everyone will feel it's worth it.
Same goes for everything else in life. Why go to a bar when you can buy a cheap six-pack to drink at home!? Some will gladly pay more to be in a bar, while others dont care about all that bar-vibe and just want a cheap beer.

[Yi-Long]

I dont buy PC games for obvious reasons (specs, patches, etc), and I dont buy PSP or DS games.

Some products are worth the money. Some arent. If someone is a huge music freak, he doesnt mind paying 10-15 euro for a CD. I do. If someone is a huge PC Gamer, he doesnt care if a game costs 50 euro and doesnt work properly on his machine. I do.

I think piracy helps the industry.

Stop going off-topic. This is specifically about game piracy.

I'm sorry but you're wrong, it does hurt the PC specific part of the industry. Largely because of piracy there's been a huge decline in PC audience specific games, games that have a certain technical depth that goes over the head of the average console gamer. Aside from The Witcher, I can't remember the last blockbuster single player RPG that had as rich game mechanics that one would expect from the genre. The simulation genre is pretty much dead.

You dont think the decline in PC game sales has anything to do for the fact that PC-gaming has been churning out the same kind of shit year after year after year, and demanding higher and higher and higher specs, and coping with too much bugs, and patches, and all that kinda crap!?

Take a game like Crysis, which is by most accounts a pretty good game worth buying. However, it is NOT worth buying because most of us do NOT have the right machine to actually play and enjoy it as it should be played. I bet many of the PC gamers, who are actually very loyal and wouldnt mind paying for PC games, DID download that game just to make sure the game would actually run decently on their machine.

PC gaming is in a slump right now cause all that comes out is RTS-games, or shooters which are actually more enjoyable on the consoles.

The majority of PC releases coming these days? MMOs and console game ports. Those aforementioned ports are more often then not, not properly optimised. Multiplatform developers have been seeing the PC platform as an afterthought because under the belief of "Why bother going to the extra effort? We aren't going to see many sales on that platform anyway?"

Eg crap or non-existent implementation of support for mouse + KB; menus that are awkward to navigate with a mouse or maybe don't support cursor browsing at all; low res textures; unbalanced difficulties for singleplayer; stupidly high system requirements for games that should run on much less.

Let's take Resident Evil 4 - that could've been the definitive version of the game. Aside from the natural graphical benefits, mouse look could've taken that game's controls to a whole 'nother level. Instead we got port of the significantly gimped PS2 version, rather than the Gamecube original, with no mouse support at all.

If they were innovative and actually took advantage of the pros a PC has, I bet it the right developer can still sell lots of PC games. You said it yourself: all we get are lazy ports and MMO's that want you to pay more and more money(!). Gee... I wonder why people download that crap instead of bothering to buy it(!)

Developers are dumping crap onto the PC market: THAT's why it's in such a slump. Piracy is just an excuse for most developers to switch over to console-developing.

[bradavon]

Hey, here's an idea for young talented strugling artists who need money: PERFORM!
If you're good, you'll make money. If you're bad, no one will download your shit anyway.

I believe that's already the reality. More and more artists make their money out of performing.

Well, if a CD where 20-30 people have worked on the whole thing, so from actual performing, recording, marketing, etc... I dont understand why that 70-minute CD has to cost 10-15 bucks, when a Hollywood movie which has cost a hundred million to produce, many millions to market, has more than 1000 people on the payroll, having it put on DVD instead of on CD, is 2-3 hours longs, plus you get extra's like making-offs and trailers etc, is also only 10-15 bucks.

I take your point but that's all largely irrelevant really. It's an entirely different medium and as such isn't going to have as many people working on it.

Besides why are you directly connecting number of people with the quality of the product? I'd say artistically Michael Jackson's Thriller is easily in the same league as The Dark Night (possibly more so). Does Jacko deserve less cash, just because less people worked on his music? Hell no.

If albums were 2Hrs+ long they'd usually be full of fillers, no one wants that. As to marketing I'd imagine they do spend millions on some albums (taking into account world-wide sales).

Deluxe CDs get released too making your extras point void.

The prices for cd's are just too high, which is why people are resorting to downloading.

Nope. They still charge a bomb on ITunes. People are moving to legal downloads because it's where the market is moving to. A large percentage of those who download illegally wouldn't pay for a CD if it cost a penny.

I of course agree the high street shops charge a rip off price but online CD prices are largely much, much cheaper. No where near recently released DVD/BD prices in fact.

DVD's still sell like hotcakes cause people feel it's a fair price for what they're getting.

Nope, they sell because their is no mass market video download service (yet). Those who don't want to pay for DVDs are happy to put up with bootleg DivX downloads.

The simple fact is it's much easier to download a 3Mb song than a 2Hr Video file. Hence why it's taken off. Legal Video downloads will come but until it does people will continue to buy DVDs. If we were still on Dial-Up, do you reckon ITunes would be the success it is? No way.

Those people dont feel 10-15 bucks for a DVD is worth it.

Many don't feel 1 buck is worth it, they specifically want it FREE! But agree more would navigate to the easiness of legal sales if the price was less (as is the case with Bootlegs in Asia).

Prices would probably be even HIGHER without piracy, thus meaning less people would actually buy it.

Agreed.

People in those parts of the world also are getting the newer technologies in their homes now.

In Malayasia? No way. They're still using VCD Players and DVD Players. They're behind us.

and now they can stay at home.

Exactly! The simple truth is the vast majority of the public simply doesn't care about "quality" like we do. I'd always take a good cinema trip over a rubbish (free) DivX download but many would not.

The decline in quality in good asian movies also probably plays a part.

Most sales are for Hollywood films and they've declined too. The Asian film market even Asia is nothing compared to Hollywood films.

Why spend 20-30 bucks on cinema-tickets when you can buy a movie, drinks and snacks for under 15 bucks and have a great night comfortably at home!?

Most would agree, personally I don't compare them. One is the experience of "getting out of the house", experiencing it with mates and having a beer afterwards.

For me one isn't better than the other, no way. Annoying twats who talk during the film really get on my nerves though.

[tom2681]

This topic comes from here.

Note to Yi:
Replying to Eva was not necessary. You knew that doing so would result in an argument.
Remember this: you're always right. Try to ignore the people who tell you you're wrong.

[saltysam]

I agree that it hurts small films/bands Brad (thats why they say "piracy costs jobs" etc) but I dont see how piracy funds terrorism?

As probably the biggest downloader of donkey porn, iilegal programmes etc. on this board don't you think your stance is a little hypocritical Grim

[tom2681]

Re: PC game piracy:
Give me Half-Life 2 without Steam and I'll buy it.
Give me a game that doesn't require the original CD/DVD to run and I'll buy it.

But until that happens, I'll keep downloading games illegally.
If it kills the developers, then so be it. It's their fault anyway.

[Yi-Long]

Hey, here's an idea for young talented strugling artists who need money: PERFORM!
If you're good, you'll make money. If you're bad, no one will download your shit anyway.

I believe that's already the reality. More and more artists make their money out of performing.

And they should! Many of these artists are just starting out, make 1 album, and expect they dont have to do shit for the rest of their lifes cause the album will, or at least, SHOULD, sell (according to THEM ofcourse). When it doesnt, obviously they point the finger to piracy, cause it couldnt possibly be their own lack of talent that's causing the people to not buy their cd(!)

Here in Holland we had some actress-turned-singer bimbo, who apparently had made an album and now wanted to be paid more money from taxes on emppty cd's and dvd's, cause people were (according to her) using those to copy her music onto(!) Fact is, hardly anyone in Holland knows the bitch, let alone know that she has actually made a crappy record, and when some people went looking for it online at the bittorrent sites, they couldnt even find it(!)

Well, if a CD where 20-30 people have worked on the whole thing, so from actual performing, recording, marketing, etc... I dont understand why that 70-minute CD has to cost 10-15 bucks, when a Hollywood movie which has cost a hundred million to produce, many millions to market, has more than 1000 people on the payroll, having it put on DVD instead of on CD, is 2-3 hours longs, plus you get extra's like making-offs and trailers etc, is also only 10-15 bucks.

I take your point but that's all largely irrelevant really. It's an entirely different medium and as such isn't going to have as many people working on it.

Besides why are you directly connecting number of people with the quality of the product? I'd say artistically Michael Jackson's Thriller is easily in the same league as The Dark Night (possibly more so). Does Jacko deserve less cash, just because less people worked on his music? Hell no.

If albums were 2Hrs+ long they'd usually be full of fillers, no one wants that. As to marketing I'd imagine they do spend millions on some albums (taking into account world-wide sales).

Deluxe CDs get released too making your extras point void.

I'm comparing production-costs to price, and it's obvious that although there ARE albums out there well worth 10-15 bucks, truth is that most arent worth that. Same goes for movies. Unlike movies though, CD's rarely go down in price.

I'm not saying CD's should be 2+ hours long, and filled with fillers (most of them already have too much filler btw).
I'm saying it hardly costs anything to produce a music CD, compared to producing a movie DVD. So why should we still pay about the same for the two products and think that's 'fair'!?

And they are indeed now producing deluxe dvd's, and it's about time. You reward the people who buy the legal product. Too bad they usually also charge extra for it. In Hong Kong, back in 2001, you were often already getting cool packaging and stuff when you bought a CD.

The prices for cd's are just too high, which is why people are resorting to downloading.

Nope. They still charge a bomb on ITunes. People are moving to legal downloads because it's where the market is moving to. A large percentage of those who download illegally wouldn't pay for a CD if it cost a penny.

I download all my music, but I would definately buy CD's again if they'd be like 7-8 euros. Almost bought Radiohead's 2-disc release in Hong Kong, which was about 8 euro.

Fact is though, that I really dont have a 'passion' for music. I hardly watch music TV stations, I never listen to the radio, and although I have a bunch of music that I love on my pc, I hardly listen to it.
People like me indeed find it hard to pay 10 bucks for a cd. Musiclovers are now jumping all over ITunes, and I can see why. Even though it's still expensive, you no longer have to put up with filler crap and such.
If I were a music fan, I'd probably be a huge fan of Itunes as well. However, I'm not such a fan, so I just download it, and listen to it very VERY occasionally.

I of course agree the high street shops charge a rip off price but online CD prices are largely much, much cheaper. No where near recently released DVD/BD prices in fact.

Yeah, online prices are cheaper than what they charge you in the store, but I doubt 'Frank' from the office is gonna go through all the trouble off ordering a CD online, while he can download it within 20 minutes.
The musicfan IS willing to go online and order a CD, but many people are not that into music to buy the CD legally, no matter what the price is. If there was no online piracy, they would just borrow the cd from a friend and copy it, or go to the library, rent it, and then copy it at home.
It's a myth that if there was no online piracy, that all these people that now download stuff online, would just go to the stores and happily bend over and pay those prices...

DVD's still sell like hotcakes cause people feel it's a fair price for what they're getting.

Nope, they sell because their is no mass market video download service (yet). Those who don't want to pay for DVDs are happy to put up with bootleg DivX downloads.

The simple fact is it's much easier to download a 3Mb song than a 2Hr Video file. Hence why it's taken off. Legal Video downloads will come but until it does people will continue to buy DVDs. If we were still on Dial-Up, do you reckon ITunes would be the success it is? No way.

Nowadays you can just download a movie overnight and watch it the next day in good condition on a normal TV. HD movies is a different story though. But many people just wait till a DVD is about 10 bucks orso and buy it, or they go out and rent a movie. They feel it's worth it.

Obviously, it's easier to download music than it is to download movies, but I doubt the 'downloaders' are now buying DVDs because it takes them too long to download a movie. I think the downloaders also wouldnt be buying that movie even if they couldnt download the movie.

Those people dont feel 10-15 bucks for a DVD is worth it.

Many don't feel 1 buck is worth it, they specifically want it FREE! But agree more would navigate to the easiness of legal sales if the price was less (as is the case with Bootlegs in Asia).

You'll ALWAYS have people who are not willing to pay for something that they can also get for free. Many people though are OK with paying a fair price for a certain product they enjoy. That being said, you only have a certain amount of money to spend each month, and sometimes you make choices.

Prices would probably be even HIGHER without piracy, thus meaning less people would actually buy it.

Agreed.

Wow...

People in those parts of the world also are getting the newer technologies in their homes now.

In Malayasia? No way. They're still using VCD Players and DVD Players. They're behind us.

I was talking about DVD and VCD players actually. I just meant to say that before they might not have a home set-up that allowed them to play entertainment in their house, so they had to go out to watch a movie or play a game in the arcade, and now many households DO have a DVd player, and will decide to stay at home and enjoy a movie there, either bought legally, or downloaded illegally.

and now they can stay at home.

Exactly! The simple truth is the vast majority of the public simply doesn't care about "quality" like we do. I'd always take a good cinema trip over a rubbish (free) DivX download but many would not.

I never watch cinema-rips or whatever you call it. I much rather watch the movie in the cinema, or in good quality on a big screen TV. Others dont really care about the screen- and soundquality and just wanna be distracted from everyday life for 2 hours. So be it.

However, going to the cinema is getting more and more expensive, so it's perfectly normal for people to stay away. I read that in Holland a movie in an IMAX theatre is now 13 euro a ticket(!) Well, fuck that!
I went to an IMAX theatre in Hong Kong to watch Kung Fu Panda (at night), and it was only 5-6 euro. That's a very good price for a nice evening out. In Thailand it's even much cheaper I heard.

The decline in quality in good asian movies also probably plays a part.

Most sales are for Hollywood films and they've declined too. The Asian film market even Asia is nothing compared to Hollywood films.

I know India and Thailand were into asian/HK movies 10-15 years orso ago. They were more popular than Hollywood productions, apart from blockbusters like Titanic and such ofcourse. With Hong Kong hardly making worthwhile cinema anymore, and the last couple of years Hollywood hasnt been that great either (2008 is very nice though), I can understand why attendence has dropped.

Why spend 20-30 bucks on cinema-tickets when you can buy a movie, drinks and snacks for under 15 bucks and have a great night comfortably at home!?

Most would agree, personally I don't compare them. One is the experience of "getting out of the house", experiencing it with mates and having a beer afterwards.

For me one isn't better than the other, no way. Annoying twats who talk during the film really get on my nerves though.

I know what you mean, but I have a real problem with feeling like I'm getting ripped off, which is now the feeling you get when you go to a cinema here in Holland, or when you go out for dinner, etc. So although in Hong Kong I really enjoyed going out to eat and to the cinema etc, back here in Holland I much rather stay in and arrange for my own entertainment.

[Yi-Long]

This topic comes from here.

Note to Yi:
Replying to Eva was not necessary. You knew that doing so would result in an argument.
Remember this: you're always right. Try to ignore the people who tell you you're wrong.

I know I am right. Obviously. If I were wrong, I wouldnt even say anything. I just want others to know that I'm right, which is why I respond

[Yi-Long]

Re: PC game piracy:
Give me Half-Life 2 without Steam and I'll buy it.
Give me a game that doesn't require the original CD/DVD to run and I'll buy it.

But until that happens, I'll keep downloading games illegally.
If it kills the developers, then so be it. It's their fault anyway.

Same here. I was actually VERY interested in Half Life 2, but then we had all that steam-shit and no matter what I did and installed, I couldnt get the fucking demo to work, while I was stuck with STEAM(!)

Now I have the Orange Box for my 360, but I wasnt gonna buy it for the PC, thats for sure.

And ditto on the CD/DVD crack thing. On a console it's much less of a problem, but on a PC it's annoying to have to insert a certain disc in order to play. (which is where steam would come in handy, I know, but steam sucks)

[Lourdes]

I like Steam personally, it forced me to upgrade from 98 to XP when it was launched because it was pretty crap and buggy - I'm most grateful for that. Today it works perfectly and I find it to be much more convenient than piracy or physical copies. I buy very little media these days but I will always buy the Valve stuff on Steam as well as games like Call of Duty 4 that need to be legit for online play or convenient updating.
I wish you could add CD-Keys to Steam, if that was the case I'd buy a lot more games in the form of CD-Keys from SE Asian sellers (games are cheaper there). Since you can't I tend to download other stuff, competing download services/applications are just rubbish and too much trouble most of the time.

By the way Yi, you certainly seem very angry.

[Yi-Long]

I'm not angry at all. Killing those baby puppies this afternoon always cheers me up.

[Markgway]

I was going to make an original post here but I changed my mind because I figured Yi would probably just copy it. 8)

[bradavon]

[Yi-Long]

I was going to make an original post here but I changed my mind because I figured Yi would probably just copy it. 8)

[Shingster]

Nope I wouldnt

I was taking the piss out of the Anti-piracy adverts that run before the films on r2 discs. They do indeed equate stealing a car with buying a pirate DVD. Knock off Nigel is their new campaign, where they basically say anyone who downloads a film is a cheapskate who tries to get everything via dodgy means!

[Yi-Long]

Nope I wouldnt

I was taking the piss out of the Anti-piracy adverts that run before the films on r2 discs. They do indeed equate stealing a car with buying a pirate DVD. Knock off Nigel is their new campaign, where they basically say anyone who downloads a film is a cheapskate who tries to get everything via dodgy means!

I was hoping you were taking the piss, and not actually had braindamaged yourself somehow and joined the likes of some other members...

Havent seen the 'Nigel' ones, and hope I'll never have to. I really hate those non-skippable anti-piracy commercials. Makes me want to pirate (Arrrrr) just so I wont have to sit through that shit.

I was actually happily surprised last week when we went to the cinema (me and my girl), and there wasnt an anti-piracy commercial!!! Amazing.
The only reason nowadays to buy an overpriced cup of coke at the cinema is that you will have something to throw towards the screen whenever that shit comes on...

I AM a cheapskate btw. That's what my girlfriend keeps telling me. I like to think I'm sensible with money.

[Shingster]

I read in a tabloid recently (so who knows how accurate this is) that apparently the US film industry is expecting to lose $1billion over the next 5yrs. So $200million a year, in an industry where dreck like Wild Hogs grosses $168mill domestic/$254mill worldwide.

[grim_tales]

I agree that it hurts small films/bands Brad (thats why they say "piracy costs jobs" etc) but I dont see how piracy funds terrorism?

As probably the biggest downloader of donkey porn, iilegal programmes etc. on this board don't you think your stance is a little hypocritical Grim

I can see your point if I downloaded illegal shows but I don't personally so whats your point?
I have watched some Simpsons episodes on my brothers PC but not downloaded them myself