Fox Hunting: Why can't we hunt the Red Coats?

[Markgway]

I feel marginalised in our society. Why? Because hunting is banned. No, not hunting poor defenceless animals, fools. I mean proper hunting. Toff hunting. A new sport I've invented where prats with too much money are dressed up in their red coats and silly hats and chased by ME with a REALLY BIG gun. The person who gets Otis Ferry between the eyes wins a Michael Wong Boxset.

Seriously... does anyone else want to burst thru the screen when they see these fuckers clowning around. "Oh, I say, it's jolly good fun murdering little creatures. Haw-haw!!" Bastards should all be arrested as soon as they put a foot wrong.

As you may have guessed I feel quite strongly on this issue.........

[romerojpg]

I would love to blow some of them fools away and set some dogs on them muppets, rip them to shreds puppies! :shock:

[grim_tales]

I agree Mark, those people are stupid cocks
If fox-hunting was a poor mans sport it would have been banned years ago.
Foxes aren't vermin IMO and dont need to be "controlled", the population will rise and fall naturally with time. Hearing hunters brand them "viscious killers" is rubbish, and taking pleasure from the discomfort of animals is sick

[degeneration]

To a very small degree they may have a case in that the foxes can and probably do kill farmland animals, so maybe the fox population does need to be controlled.

However, in absolutely no way does this make it fair, just or right that the manner in which they control the population is a barbaric chase through the country side resulting in the fox being rippped to shreds by dogs.

I agree that now that fox-hunting has been banned, anyone who participates should be arrested. I've got nothing against the people meeting or even going out riding in groups, as long as the dogs stay behind and there is no hunting involved at all.

If you are gonna control the fox population, do it more humanely.

[grim_tales]

I agree Degen, there must be a more humane way of doing it. You are right some foxes do kill farm animals and rabbits, they do it out of thirsty instinct and their food chain though.
There's no justification for what hunters do IMO, particularly the bit about when its someones first hunt (I think), when a fox is killed, they take the blood and smear it on the persons face
If all they are concerned about is pest control, why do they dress up and go out in large groups to do it?

[bradavon]

I completely agree but would stop at locking them away. To allow them to murder is wrong but to widen the conversation isn't everyone a contributor to this by eating meat and/or fish?

I'm vegetarian so am not a murderer of course

I really hate how people ask to have the head cut off a fish in a restaurant. Where do you think it came from? Was the fish born without a head. Either eat it with the head and have the guts to know where what you're eating came from or order something else!

[grim_tales]

You do have a case Brad, but cows/sheep etc are reared for their meat, to be eaten, I think since a lot of people eat meat (somewhere in the high 90% band in the UK I think) its' looked on differently. I doubt the hunters eat the foxes afterwards Its' different to say, prehistoric times, humans had to hunt to survive.
Do you not eat fish either Brad? Just wondering.
I didnt know that about ordering fish in a restaurant, I think fish can feel pain just like other animals.

[Markgway]

Eating animals for food is not the same as hunting for sport or pleasure.

A Lion kills its prey to feed its young not keep a head on its mantle and invite round all is Lion friends to admire: "ooh, isn't that head lovely above the fireplace?"

I eat meat. Sometimes feel bad about it. But no animal ever died for me. If I never ate enough bite the same number of animals would die. It would take a mass ban to change things and that's not gonna happen.

[grim_tales]

Won't some lions "compete" with others (doesnt just apply to lions) for a kill? Isnt that showing off?
I agree though Mark, you can't compare hunting animals for sport or pleasure to hunting them for food/survival, or reared ones for food. One is a necessity (food), the other one isn't.

[romerojpg]

Maybe the Hunters should eat there Fox catches, after the dogs have ripped the poor little animal to shreds!

[bradavon]

Did anyone else see yesterday's Daily Mail? (I think it was the Daily Mail) with the front page spread of a dolphin? A few things really got on my nerves

1. It said "our" dolphins are being killed. That's funny I never knew the British people suddenly owned all the dolphins in the seas around Britain.

Why is it wrong to kill Dolphins but not live stock? They eat Dolphins in China, is this wrong? They eat horses in France, is this wrong? Just because we as a society evoke emotions to a particular species does that mean said species suddenly has more right to live?

If anything surely they below to Europe? Britain being part of the EU.

2. "Those French are murdering them." Well that paints a great picture for unity as a one Europe Union.

I wish I'd bought a copy now. If anyone has a copy I'd buy it off you.

You do have a case Brad, but cows/sheep etc are reared for their meat, to be eaten, I think since a lot of people eat meat (somewhere in the high 90% band in the UK I think) its' looked on differently. I doubt the hunters eat the foxes afterwards Its' different to say, prehistoric times, humans had to hunt to survive.

Just because it's reared that doesn't mean it doesn't have a right to live IMO. I know it's looked differently but as far as I'm concerned a life is a life.

Does a human have more right to live over an insect? It certainly does not IMO. I hate killing insects. A bee is doing me no harm flying around me in a room. All those people who run around flapping their arms in the arm are much more likely to be stung. Just because we are more intelligent does that give us the right to murder? Would society tolerate the killing of people with low IQ?

Why do we say a person has a good personality but a dog has a good temperament? Don't they really mean the same thing?

If it was the case of dying or eating meat? Yes I'd eat it but the fact is we don't need meat to survive, not at all. In fact a non-meat eating diet is healthier. All those people who say I would be vegetarian but I need protein, would feel hungry should get their facts straight! The nutrients and protein you find in meat/fish can be found in many other things too, although it is true vegetarians are low on vitamin B12.

Do you not eat fish either Brad? Just wondering.

No I don't eat fish either. I don't wear leather too, unless I really can't help it, for example when I was travelling through Australia and my belt broke.

Check out - www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk

I'm not a vegan though. It amazes me how many times I get asked do I eat eggs? No that's a vegan you ignorant spanner.

Now I mention it airlines are so bloody ignorant. I always have the vegetarian option. Which they insultingly call a "special" menu. What's so special? Are the beans hand picked by the Dali Lama? Except more often than not one of the choices of "meat" meals is bloody vegetarian anyway? You don't get crisps or pasta in a vegetarian meal as the "special" meal is there not for vegetarians but for everyone who is vegetarian, vegan, is allergic to nuts, yeast. You get the picture.

Everyone who doesn't fit nicely in to a square box really.

Eating animals for food is not the same as hunting for sport or pleasure.

I see little difference, only the end result is different. A farmer who kills his cows (or whoever they do it) to sell for meat is murdering a life as much as a human is murdering another human or hunters are murdering defenceless foxes.

Interestingly I've just looked "murder" up in the dictionary and it says:

"The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice."

In my book the dictionary is wrong!

A Lion kills its prey to feed its young not keep a head on its mantle and invite round all is Lion friends to admire: "ooh, isn't that head lovely above the fireplace?"

Very true but a Lion knows no better. The human race is far more intelligent than a Lion we know that we don't "need" meat to survive.

I eat meat. Sometimes feel bad about it. But no animal ever died for me. If I never ate enough bite the same number of animals would die. It would take a mass ban to change things and that's not gonna happen.

Does that suddenly make it right then? Do the minorities views on the murder of defenceless animals make our opinion any less?

I'm not saying you think this but it's an interesting point.

p.s - Sorry to nick your thread Mark :-D . I'll have to adapt my thoughts for my "Open Discussion" section of my website.

[Markgway]

Does a human have more right to live over an insect?It certainly does not IMO. I hate killing insects. A bee is doing me no harm flying around me in a room. All those people who run around flapping their arms in the arm are much more likely to be stung. Just because we are more intelligent does that give us the right to murder? Would society tolerate the killing of people with low IQ?

For once, Brad, we agree.....

If it was the case of dying or eating meat? Yes I'd eat it but the fact is we don't need meat to survive, not at all. In fact a non-meat eating diet is healthier. All those people who say I would be vegetarian but I need protein, would feel hungry should get their facts straight! The nutrients and protein you find in meat/fish can be found in many other things too, although it is true vegetarians are low on vitamin B12.

You'll be pleased to note that I intend on encouraging any future offspring to be vegetarian. It's far too late for carnivorous me.

I'm not a vegan though. It amazes me how many times I get asked do I eat eggs? No that's a vegan you ignorant spanner.

The one that confuses me is the people who don't drink milk. What's supposed to happen to the Cows if we don't? They'll explode!! Cows need milking, right?

I see little difference, only the end result is different. A farmer who kills his cows (or whoever they do it) to sell for meat is murdering a life as much as a human is murdering another human or hunters are murdering defenceless foxes.

The result is the same, sure, but the motive is different. That's all I was saying. One is for consumption, right or wrong, the other is for pleasure. Surely you see some difference?

Interestingly I've just looked "murder" up in the dictionary and it says: "The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice." In my book the dictionary is wrong!

I would classify most rap records as murder to music.

Very true but a Lion knows no better. The human race is far more intelligent than a Lion we know that we don't "need" meat to survive.

I bet Lions outlive humans on this planet. We will destroy ourselves. It's inevitible.

Does that suddenly make it right then? Do the minorities views on the murder of defenceless animals make our opinion any less?

You're as entitled to your opinion as I. I know that if I stopped eating meat right now it wouldn't change a thing as far as society is concerned. If you want to make a difference, society as a whole needs to change. What you or I do as individuals is, realistically speaking, inconsequential. But we have only to live with ourselves in the end.

p.s - Sorry to nick your thread Mark :-D .

Not a problem. It's all relevant. I'm not one of those fussy "keep everything O/T" buggers!

[bradavon]

For once, Brad, we agree.....

I'm in shock, it had to happen sooner or later

The one that confuses me is the people who don't drink milk. What's supposed to happen to the Cows if we don't? They'll explode!! Cows need milking, right?

I've never heard of that one before. My Dad doesn't drink dairy milk has he's allergic to it and instead drinks soya milk. I've heard (but never met) of fruitarians.

You know what I've found more often than not meat eaters (and I'm grossly generalising) have more of a problem with vegetarians and the like than vegetarians ever have with meat eaters. I guess they feel "we're" going to convert everyone or some such bollocks. I have little problem with someone deciding to eat meat; I disagree with it but I don't have a problem with it. I've had many discussions with meat eaters over the years who have felt the need to state their case for eating meat.

The result is the same, sure, but the motive is different. That's all I was saying. One is for consumption, right or wrong, the other is for pleasure. Surely you see some difference?

Yep that's why I said little instead of no difference. If you're asking me to be picky I'd favour the consumption over the pleasure.

I saw "Question Time" earlier tonight and one of the spokes women said that hunting is not a cruel sport as proven by some report. Huh? No matter how you look at it how can it not be cruel?

You're as entitled to your opinion as I. I know that if I stopped eating meat right now it wouldn't change a thing as far as society is concerned.

Very true. I just feel for me I couldn't do it anymore. For the first year the smell of bacon was hard but not anymore. That's not to say I don't like the smell of bacon or many other meats. It's very much my brain saying one thing, my taste buds another.

I've been vegetarian for the past 12 years (all my adult life and most of my teenage life) and haven't look back not once. It's as strong to me as Christianity is to a Christian or Buddhism is to a Buddhist.

I sometimes think it would be a treat if you will to have a burger but then I think where it came from and I quickly go off the idea.

It was weird I was watching the 70's sitcom "Butterflies" and in the particular episode the husband was killing butterflies for his collection. I thought this was cruel and decided there and then I didn't want to eat meat anymore. My parents of course me aged 14 wouldn't last more than 5 minutes, as I was a big burger eater. I sure proved them wrong.

My brother was for 6-8 months or so but it didn't last.

Not a problem. It's all relevant. I'm not one of those fussy "keep everything O/T" buggers!

That's good to hear. People forgot sticking strictly on topic often hinders interesting topics such as this.

[grim_tales]

Whales are not "reared" (but are eaten) for meat in Japan or Norway Brad (AFAIK), but are killed in a very painful, brutal way, and are endangered too (I think?) Thats not done for pleasure though.
I don't know about horses, are they bread for meat in France then?
This is an interesting thread.
I dont think eating (say) dogs is right at all - thats because in Britain we keep them as pets. In Korea, one specific breed of dog (AFAIK) is farmed for its' meat but I still think this freaks Westerners out, we have a different image of the domesticated dog. (You may remember the gag in OUATIC 2 )

[bradavon]

Define pleasure? Do the Japanese and Norwegians not get pleasure out of eating whale.

Yes I'm sure whales are an endangered species which makes it even more wrong. Many breeds of animal in Australia are now extinct for example because of man or more to the point European man. Domestic cats were introduced and they then went and killed off many species. You say whales are killed in a brutal way, how is it different from killing a sheep or cow Grim? Aren't both shot too? (or however they do it).

I don't know if they're bread but they do eat them in France. I see no difference between eating a horse or a cow, both I imagine have a similar amount of meat on them (why as humans do we call it fat on us?). It's because we idolise cats, dogs and humans. At least in China/Japan they're not hypocritical in sectioning off one species from another.

They eat sharks fins in China which really makes me angry as the rest of the animal often still alive is left to suffocate to death.

I don't remember the gag how did it go?

[grim_tales]

Its the one where WFH, Foon and 13th Aunt sit down to eat, however Foon hasnt told 13th Aunt what the meat is. As theyre eating, he asks her if she likes dogs.

13th Aunt: Oh yes, theyre mans best friend. I like them more than cats anyway. *Chews a bit* This is very good, what is it?

*Pause*

Foon: Come outside when you've finished the dog meat.

13th Aunt: *wretches* What? This is dog meat? *Runs from table*

Foon: Master loves dogs.

Good points Brad When I say "pleasure", I mean killing an animal simply for "sport" (ie foxhunting etc), and the pleasure of killing (not for consumption). Dont eskimo eat whale as well?

Brad I think so but whales are harpooned and die really slowly (AFAIK). I agree if theyre endangered its more wrong Livestock is killed obviously, just not in nearly so cruel a way.
I agree if the French want to eat horse and Koreans or Chinese eat dogs) let them. You are right, we are "shocked" at Korea because we only keep dogs/cats as pets. I wonder though if they'd be shocked at what Europeans/British eat?
Muslims for example dont eat pork as pigs are thought unclean, and the cow is a holy animal to them (I think) so it is not eaten.

I had crocodile once, tastes like chicken only 2,000 times more expensive.

[bradavon]

Dont eskimo eat whale as well?

I think so but the big difference (which was the same with Aborigines) is they only kill what they need and don't do it on mass scale.

I wonder though if they'd be shocked at what Europeans/British eat?

Isn't that one in the same thing?

I suspect they are shocked at some things we do, yep for sure.

Muslims for example dont eat pork as pigs are thought unclean, and the cow is a holy animal to them (I think) so it is not eaten.

I'm not sure if it's all Muslims just some.

I had crocodile once, tastes like chicken only 2,000 times more expensive.

LOL doesn't every meat taste like Chicken?

[Markgway]

I saw "Question Time" earlier tonight and one of the spokes women said that hunting is not a cruel sport as proven by some report. Huh? No matter how you look at it how can it not be cruel?

I saw that too. The writer Anne Atkins. Yeah, I don't know who she is either!?! Silly cow was begging to be arrested. I would've given anything to see a handful of coppers march in and drag her out. Alas it never transpired. If Hunting isn't cruel... can I hunt her offspring?

I've been vegetarian for the past 12 years (all my adult life and most of my teenage life) and haven't look back not once.

My Uncle is a veggie. Only one in the entire family that I know of. He just stopped one day and like you never looked back.

I sometimes think it would be a treat if you will to have a burger but then I think where it came from and I quickly go off the idea.

Trust me you would hate yourself for doing it. As soon as the last greasy chunk was past your gullet you would think about breaking 12 years of habit.

It was weird I was watching the 70's sitcom "Butterflies" and in the particular episode the husband was killing butterflies for his collection. I thought this was cruel and decided there and then I didn't want to eat meat anymore.

I saw an episode of that once. Made me decide not to watch TV ever again.

My parents of course me aged 14 wouldn't last more than 5 minutes, as I was a big burger eater. I sure proved them wrong.

I gave up beef for a period of four years. It was around the time of the whole BSC furore. I only resumed when I unknowingly ate beef thinking it was something else. Since the fuss had died down seemed no point in maintaining a charade.

People forgot sticking strictly on topic often hinders interesting topics such as this.

Very true. I like to see where a debate can go......

[bradavon]

Trust me you would hate yourself for doing it. As soon as the last greasy chunk was past your gullet you would think about breaking 12 years of habit.

I'd never actually do it but meat does smell nice. I can't get away from that.

[EvaUnit02]

I'm glad that fox hunting has been banned. The common man doesn't care, only the aristocratic tossers who've been wearing the same clothes that their great-grandpaps did.

[bradavon]

Is it banned in NZ or more to the point the equivalent? Do you have one? It's not banned in Ireland.

Bull Fighting is not only banned in Spain it's hugely popular! I'd like to see one one day (probably only part of one though). So I can at least say I've seen what I disagree with.

[Markgway]

Bull Fighting is not only banned in Spain it's hugely popular! I'd like to see one one day (probably only part of one though). So I can at least say I've seen what I disagree with.

I don't need to kick an old pensioner's head in to know it's wrong.

[Yi-Long]

I've seen (seen, not watched, but SEEN) bull 'fighting' a couple of times on Spanish TV. Thought it was fucking awfull. Wouldnt even think of ever attending such an event in person which would mean putting money in their pockets...

The only way I'll be watching it, is if they dress the guy in a red outfit, take away that cloth/blanket he has, and not tire out the bull beforehand. So it's a fair(er) fight.

The foxhunting, and everyone defending it: Sick sick demented people I'd petty if I wouldnt hate them so much...
I hope wild dogs will ravage them alive. Their ugly faces should be ripped from their heads by wild animals and left to die...

About veggies: 'the one that got away' was a veggie. I took her to MacDonalds without knowing, and she only had a salad or whatever...
She didnt tell me that I was doing something wrong, when I was eating my burger, which is the way she always was. She respected my choices as I did hers...
Personally, i still eat meat. yeah I feel bad about it and yeah that makes me a hypocrite. I love animals. But if God didnt want me to eat them he wouldnt have made them so tasty. ( I think that was a Simpsons joke btw, but I'm not sure)

I've seen those dogs and cats in cages on chinese markets on TV a couple of times, and it saddened me to the bone... poor poor animals.

It's weird. While I could imagine myself killing a human being (in extreme situations ofcourse, like my daughter/girl getting raped or whatever...), I can't possibly imagine myself ever slaughtering an animal for food or any other reason, other then putting it out of it's misery. Perhaps I rate animals higher then (some) humans cause animals are basically always innocent. In the summer, I always throw spiders and such out of the window, instead of squashing them. Except Mosquitos. I used to spare them also cause they used to not bite me, but since a year or two they have started biting me so in those cases I strike back/first.

[EvaUnit02]

Is it banned in NZ or more to the point the equivalent? Do you have one? It's not banned in Ireland.

I don't think it ever caught on here. You have to consider that the primary British emigrants to NZ in the mid-19th century were common farmers, London slummers and ex-cons. I highly doubt that some Lord would want to emigrate to "a lowly colony full of common people" .

We have rabbit and possum hunting, but they're pests to farmers (in the case of rabbits) and a serious threat to native animals/trees (in the cases of possums), so I doubt they'd be considered "sport". I'm sure there's duck and deer hunting too, that can be considered "sport"; but those are humane probably.

In the past blokes from Norway and like came to our waters to hunt whales and fur seals (the latter almost being driven to the BRINK of extinction, I believe), but those times are long since past.

[ICE-angel]

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