CD WOW in court over "grey CD Imports"

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 25 Feb 2007, 18:47

DVD Swaps wrote:Music industry trade body the BPI (British Phonographic Industry) is seeking a contempt of court order against e-tailer CD Wow, after the company was accused by the BPI of continuing 'grey imports' of CDs from abroad.

Philip Robinson, a former director of CD Wow, agreed to pay £50,000 towards court costs but didn't accept he was in breach of an earlier undertaking to the court, where it agreed to stop importing CDs from Asia not intended for resale in the UK.

However, the entertainment e-tailer is rejecting calls from the BPI for it to pay a fine, damages or costs.

The BPI is now seeking a finding that CD Wow is in contempt of Court; a fine payable to the crown by CD Wow; an order that CD Wow pay damages for breach of copyright; and an order that CD Wow pay the UK record industry's costs.

BPI general counsel Roz Groome said in a statement: "We believe CD Wow is guilty of flagrant and systematic breaches of a High Court order... Contrary to some reports this case is nothing to do with price. Plenty of retailers manage to sell CDs at competitive prices without breaking the law."

CD Wow denied it had intentionally used grey imports of CDs not intended for this country and any breaches were a result of human error.

CD Wow co-founder Henrik Wesslen said: "The current copyright laws are mad but that doesn't mean we don't stick to them. We have always acted transparently and where we have been pulled up on a small number of unintentional instances we are big enough to hold our hands up."

The etailer added it may face closure if it loses the battle with the BPI.

The legal wrangling between the two was initially concluded in 2004 when they reached an out-of-court settlement which saw pounds added to the price of CDs after CD Wow switched from sourcing its goods from Asia to Europe.

CD Wow suggested in emails to customers that the price rises were imposed on it, a claim the BPI refuted leading to an injunction preventing the CD seller from repeating the claims.

Whenever I read that I think it says "British Pornographic Industry"

I hope CD-WOW doesn't close.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 25 Feb 2007, 18:51

Its nothing new, they go thru this every year, they wont close. They were slapped 2 years ago with major power from all the more powerful companies and they just kept going, didnt even slow down.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 25 Feb 2007, 20:25

So people buy legal CD's from CD-wow. music industry feels that those cd's are too cheap for us western people (we should buy the expensive local cd's instead), so they want to forbid cd-wow from selling these cd's!?

Just fucking download your music, and hope these music-industry people go broke.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 27 Feb 2007, 12:00

Parallel importing is 100% legal over here and DVD players have to be sold as a multi-region solution out-of-the-box.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 01 Mar 2007, 07:51

Grrrr we get ripped off and that's allowed, a company comes along and charges us a fair amounts and that's not.

It's utter bollocks most companies charge us a fair price. Sure Tesco for example aren't too bad but most are ridiculously expensive. I'd never buy a CD (outside of sales) at rip off HMV.

It makes even less sense when I　can legally import the same CD myself. I really hope they don't close. They're by far the best e-tailor on the web.

I thought the whole point was switching from Asian to European suppliers made it legal? How come they don't seem to mind about DVDs being imported from Asia?

Musc studios really are money grabbing knobs, and to think they can't work out why so many people illegally download music. Because you fucking rip us off constantly!

Charge me a fair price (as CD WOW do) and I'll gladly buy a CD but I flatly refuse to be ripped off by HMV.

p.s - It's good to hear New Zealand isn't as stuck in the dark ages. I fear when it makes the government richer New Zealand will one day join the dark side.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 01 Mar 2007, 08:26

Sorry, I agree with this in principle. The world is a big place, countries differ a lot. And even in Aisa with cheaper prices CD's and DVD's they are still relatively more than they are for us. Prices need to come down worldwide but at the source. Grey market imports change nothing, they just make even more of an obstacle into an already fierce price war started by the internet.

And you know what psises me off? Years ago when CD-Wow first performed their publicity stunt of raising prices and then lowering them a few days later they emailled me with Churchill's Beaches speech.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 18 Mar 2007, 14:34

Ultimately all I care about is being ripped off by the big music studios. The rest doesn't really interest me.

CD WOW charge a fair price I pay it, it's the music industrudies fault (no matter how I look at it) for ripping us off!

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 20 Mar 2007, 17:30

Bad news for CD-WOW and all of us-they lost the case

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6471863.stm

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 20 Mar 2007, 17:54

Yup get ready for the price rises on every product.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 20 Mar 2007, 18:09

Well, in that case I'm gonna go out and pay chart price immediately.

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 24 Mar 2007, 08:29

On the front page there's a question: "Do you think the BPI ruling is unfair - should music fans have a choice where they CD's come from?"

Fucking A it is/they should!

CD-WOW were selling legit CDs/DVDs at reasonable prices and money grabbing gits don't like it

:shock:

97% have voted yes (I'd like to see who voted no).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Mar 2007, 13:02

I see prices of CDs (which this ruling only effects) are about the same. I guess like last time their profits will be hit.

As Mark says the greedy music industry will need to try much harder before I pay rip off high street prices. Even £9.97 while better is still a rip off IMO.

With retail sales of £21.7m in the UK in 2005, CD-Wow was the third largest online music retailer in the UK after Amazon and Play.

I didn't appreciate quite how big CD WOW (or Play) have become. They're bigger than HMV online, fair play to them I say. People are dumb though, Amazon are far from the cheapest.

The company said the albums in question were bought legitimitely from the record companies themselves overseas.

"At a time when the record industry is losing vast revenue to piracy, it seems ludicrous that they can set out to destroy a section of the market that is actually making them money," said founder Henrik Wesslen.

The Hong Kong-based retailer is now calling for a full review of copyright law that it claims "serves to line the pockets of the music industry at the expense of the consumer".

Exactly!

It's got nothing to do with the high street being unfairly cheated, they're just pissed people are able to go elsewhere.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Mar 2007, 13:07

I thought CD WOW since the 2004 ruling now sourced their CDs from Eastern Europe. I guess not.

The sad thing is most people will read this and will immediately assume CD WOW sell bootlegs. That could really hurt them. Where do Play or the likes of BangCD (who also charge £6.99 per CD) source their CDs from then?

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 24 Mar 2007, 14:10

grim_tales wrote:97% have voted yes (I'd like to see who voted no).

All the members of the BPI presumably...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Mar 2007, 15:06

I guess being technical they're maybe breaking the law and as we all know some people don't think out of the box. The law stinks!

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 25 Mar 2007, 09:47

Play charge £8.95 don't they?

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Mar 2007, 19:03

Yes, it upsets me so much that CD-Wow are breaking the law (*blows nose, wipes away tears*) those impoverished coked-up buggers in the UK music industry will only make hundreds of millions this year instead of billions... where's the humanity?????

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 25 Mar 2007, 22:37

bradavon wrote: I didn't appreciate quite how big CD WOW (or Play) have become. They're bigger than HMV online, fair play to them I say. People are dumb though, Amazon are far from the cheapest.

Well... it's probably because play.com and cd-wow also have a huge amount of over-seas costumers in holland, germany, etc...

And Amazon.com, though very expensive, just has a well-known name...

I dont care if an e-tailer is big or small... as long as they're cheap and reliable.

And like everyone knows, I dont buy my cd's in the local stores. Too fucking expensive.
Untill someone can fucking explain to me why a CD (12 songs, 45-60 minutes, maybe 20 people involved in the making-off?) costs equal or MORE than a DVD (production costs in the millions to make a movie, thousands of people involved in making it, etc etc), I'm not gonna bother paying them.

Those fucking lousy musicians really think they can just make 1 cd, with 12 songs, of which a few might be great, and it would provide them with money for life!? Fuck that. They make thousands of bucks for a half hour performance a night...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Mar 2007, 22:44

Just one thing to add it does cost millions or at least thousands to market an artist so we have all have heard of them. I agree with you on the 12 songs vs. price point but think you're entirely missing the point on the number of people involved.

I'd much rather pay for an album from an artist whose heart, sole and passion has gone into it than some Hollywood drivel that happened to have a hundred people working on it.

I do think you can compare a film with music in the same light, they're different mediums so work differently.

Hell an author spends months writing a book, it's then sent to a publisher but the book is written by only one person. Is it unfair to charge £5-10 for said book? I think not.

Besides the majority of people will get a LOT more use from a CD than DVD. Most only watch DVDs once.

But otherwise I generally agree.

p.s - Good point re: Play. Amazon of course also have a branch in Asia and two in North America too.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 25 Mar 2007, 23:12

bradavon wrote:Just one thing to add it does cost millions or at least thousands to market an artist so we have all have heard of them. I agree with you on the 12 songs vs. price point but think you're entirely missing the point on the number of people involved.

It might cost millions to market crappy pop-musicians, but for most bands and artists it costs a lot less. Not more than any average movie or game, tbh. I seriously doubt The Verve or Nirvana got millions of bucks of marketing money by their companies. Their music and quality is their marketing. Word of mouth and good reviews are their marketing.
Crap like Jessica Simpson and Christina Aquarium or whatever, yeah sure they get alot of marketing money being spend to get them famous and popular... but that's not really an expence but an investment, cause they know that if they throw that much money at marketing these kids as superstars, people will buy into it and spend money on that crap.

I'd much rather pay for an album from an artist whose heart, sole and passion has gone into it than some Hollywood drivel that happened to have a hundred people working on it.

Same here, and that's exactly my problem. If I'd go out and buya cd of say, Placebo... I know maybe 1 euro of my money that i spend on the DVD might reach the band... and the rest of my money would go to the whole managers and crap, AND ALOT of my money would go to the company which they would than use NOT on marketing for Placebo, but on marketing for some dumb-ass kiddy-idol they need to push in all the possible limelights thay possibly can.

I would much prefer that band from now on just set up their own website, and fans can just make donations to them, as much as the fans feel is fair. So say I download a CD of Placebo, I really love it, and I want to support the band... than I could just go their website, and make a little deposit. And in return they could offer me a cool wallpaper or whatever... something that costs them nothing but is still a nice gesture towards their paying fans. And the music companies, the 'middle-man' as it were, would be left out. Good riddance.

I do think you can compare a film with music in the same light, they're different mediums so work differently.

???
Do or don't?

Hell an author spends months writing a book, it's then sent to a publisher but the book is written by only one person. Is it unfair to charge £5-10 for said book? I think not.

Nope, it good value for money. A book needs to be printed, it needs artwork, it needs spellchecking, it's been months of work for the writer, etc etc etc. It is actually good value for money.
A CD costs next to nothing, even when you include a little booklet and the tray. A CD shouldnt cost 10 pounds or over. It's too expensive. Ofcourse some CD's are definately worth paying over 10 pounds for... but certainly the majority of them arent.

Besides the majority of people will get a LOT more use from a CD than DVD. Most only watch DVDs once.

Hmm... depends I guess. If it's a good CD, than sure, yeah, it will get a lot of play. If it's just a mediocre CD with a few good songs on it, than definately not. I know I watch DVDs more than once, but am also well aware that most people might not.
For me, 10 pounds for a DVD is an OK price. Not great, and I generally wait for DVD's to be 5-8 pounds (or less) before I buy them.

I think one of the key factors in buying my dvd's legally, and downloading my music, is that with buying the DVDactually seems like good value for money. You get a good movie, it's usually under 10 pounds (for me at least), and it usually has extra's and all that.

With a CD you just get 12 songs on a cheap cd and in a cheap tray, with no extras whatsoever. If I download it, I have the exact same product, plus I'm able to use the MP3 on a MP3 player, or burn the music ona CD, or whatever. And it goes straight into my PC 'jukebox'. It's way more easy to just download music and enjoying it, instead of having to shit around with a CD all the time.

But otherwise I generally agree.

Well... you should!

p.s - Good point re: Play. Amazon of course also have a branch in Asia and two in North America too.[/quote]

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 26 Mar 2007, 04:31

I wouldn't say Amazon are really expensive. I mostly use Caiman USA and Import CD Specialists off Amazon New & Used section because they offer great prices.

I rip my CDs to my computer, why don't you just do that?

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 26 Mar 2007, 09:51

Because I only have a PC to use when I want to listen to music. So downloading the music is easier than first buying it, and going through the trouble of ripping it. Especially when you consider some CDs would be copyprotected. And obviously the cost of CDs is too high anyway...

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 26 Mar 2007, 12:18

I still like to occasionally buy CDs when the price is right.

The audio quality of CDs is 2nd to none (ignoring the existance of DVD-A/SACD). I for one can definitely notice the difference between uncompressed PCM and compressed formats like OGG, MP3, AAC, WMA, etc. Eg After listening to a downloaded copy of Tool - Ten Thousand Days for about a year I finally bought the CD cuz it was on sale for $12nzd, the superiority of the CD's audio over the downloaded MP3s was shocking.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 26 Mar 2007, 12:57

Yeah, the quality might be a factor to buy a CD, but personally I only listen to music through my PS, which sadly doesnt have the best boxes or soundcard...

Maybe later when I have a bit more money and I have a good soundsystem, I'd buy Cd's... but not now. And I think cd's will first have to become wayyy cheaper before they win me over.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 26 Mar 2007, 14:37

Yi-Long wrote:Because I only have a PC to use when I want to listen to music. So downloading the music is easier than first buying it, and going through the trouble of ripping it. Especially when you consider some CDs would be copyprotected. And obviously the cost of CDs is too high anyway...

What?! Ripping a CD takes less than a minute. Copy protection? I've ripped all of my CDs using Windows Media Player and had NO problems whatsoever, and I own HUNDREDS.

EvaUnit02 wrote:The audio quality of CDs is 2nd to none (ignoring the existance of DVD-A/SACD).

Is it hell. Never heard of 'the loudness war'? Pop on Red Hot Chili Peppers' 'Californication' and listen to all its '2nd to none' sound quality in all its glory... not. The sound quality almost ruins that album for me, it's uncomfortable to listen to. When people master CDs, they often push the volume way past the CD's limits, degrading the sound quality significantly, it's ridiculous. Apparently DVD-A's and SACD's are subject to the same shit, so they're not much help either.