Website design questions...

[Yi-Long]

I want to launch my own website soon, but I have no idea how to build a webpage etc. I'm a complete NOOB.

So what would be the best and/or easiest software to work with, are there any good sites out there that will help, do I need templates or whatever, etc etc etc...

Any help would be much appreciated.

[bradavon]

I use FrontPage as I like the MS friendly interface and find it easy to use. I've just stick with pretty much Photos + HTML.

I then use CuteFTP Pro to upload the photos to my FTP site which conntects to: www.alexmccaffrey.com.

How to upload will be provided by whichever hosting company you're with. In short I create pages in FrontPage and drag/drop the files via CuteFTP Pro. Which I login to my FTP site with.

I'm with Hosting-unlimited.net and pay £30 a year, £10 for the domain name (which I wanted but of course isn't compulsory) and £20 for 2Gb of web space. I find 2Gb plenty.

You can get cheaper but they were recommended and only ever had one problem where my FTP server address was changed but they never bothered to tell me. Once I found out I just re-uploaded the site (the sites never gone down, it just meant I wasn't able to upload changes). I've been with them 2 years last November.

You do editing offline and upload it after. It's pretty easy, much easier than most people who use rubbish like My Space think.

[Yi-Long]

Thanks Brad, but I think i heard people moan about FP a; not being very good, and b: making a mess of the HTML?

Isnt there some easier and/or better program out there?

[bradavon]

Thanks Brad, but I think i heard people moan about FP a; not being very good, and b: making a mess of the HTML?

That's a lot to do with snobbery tbh. Most love Dreamweaver but that doesn't mean FrontPage is bad in the slightest. I gave Dreamweaver a try but missed all the MS front end I was used to in Word, Excel etc . . .

For example: Ask someone which is better Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro. I bet most would say Photoshop but they've never bothered to sit down and learn Paint Shop Pro, so IMO it's not exactly accurate. You see most moan about anything which isn't Photoshop, it doesn't mean Paint Shop Pro is bad.

Isnt there some easier and/or better program out there?

A better program most love Dreamweaver. Personally I'm not convinced it's "better" just different.

As for easier FrontPage it's as easy as you can get (so are others). You just choose Insert Picture, Format, Font like you do in Word. The same applies to Dreamweaver but I couldn't be bothered to learn it I like and am used to the MS way of doing things.

Lastly sure there maybe better but don't believe the crap that FrontPage is a bad editor. Yes it does add HTML code to files you don't need but then unless you're into HTML coding they ALL do (i.e - GUI editors) and frankly in the days of Broadband big deal. It's not much anyway, just a few lines. Frankly I don't care.

Like I said I like the interface I'm used to and can't be bothered to learn anything else. I didn't think Dreamweaver was all that great anyway.

p.s - Dreamweaver (and Photoshop) are the industry standards if that interests you. Oh and Macromedia Dreamweaver is now owned by Adobe.

[slasher13]

, A nice subject for me to answer on...

Okay Frontpage did use to put alot of information to an html page which you really didn't need at all. Dreamweaver are least allows you to see what it will put in, and to be honest it doesn't put that much in. Dreamweaver 8, which I am just getting used to know, has lovely support for CSS. Dreamweaver 4 is my preferred s/ware, it is very easy to use.

BTW Yi, what your skill on HTML, If beginner, I find the following website great, http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp

It a great website, it taught me the basic of SQL when I needed to learn it.

[Yi-Long]

Thanks guys... I think I'll download dreamweaver then.
I really hope it will be easy to use...

Slasher: My skill is absolute beginner. We should have been taught website-design in school, but my school sucked ass, so now I'm self-teaching myself a fair bit with 3d programs and now website-design I guess...
I feel really dissapointed that my school didnt teach me these things.

edit: what's CSS btw ?

[bradavon]

Okay Frontpage did use to put alot of information to an html page which you really didn't need at all.

Does it still?

Dreamweaver are least allows you to see what it will put in

You can view the code in FP too.

, and to be honest it doesn't put that much in. Dreamweaver 8, which I am just getting used to know, has lovely support for CSS. Dreamweaver 4 is my preferred s/ware, it is very easy to use.

So 8 is much harder?

BTW Yi, what your skill on HTML, If beginner, I find the following website great, http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp

Good idea. That's a decent site but then again if you just want to use a GUI style you don't need to really know HTML at all.

Thanks guys... I think I'll download dreamweaver then.
I really hope it will be easy to use...

I said FP was easy to use and you ignore me, Slasher says DW is easy to use and you go with him

Slasher: My skill is absolute beginner. We should have been taught website-design in school, but my school sucked ass, so now I'm self-teaching myself a fair bit with 3d programs and now website-design I guess...

I've never heard of any school teaching it. You're supposed to take a specialist course which seems fair enough to me.

[degeneration]

That w3schools site is a great site for learning commands and stuff. Used it myself to learn quite a few things to do with ASP and SQL statements. Not looked at it for HTML though.

Another site which is great for learning what different things do in HTML is SIzzling HTML Jalfrezi - http://vzone.virgin.net/sizzling.jalfrezi/iniframe.htm

I use that site a lot when I'm looking for a command to do something but can't remember or don't know what it is.

The only problem with sites like that though is that they are basically indexes of commands rather than tutorials on building from the ground up.

I've taken my path in learning html, asp and sql the rather difficult and probably stupid way. I don't use any software programs for making my pages, I write them all out by hand in notepad!! My asp pages are automatically opened by frontpage, but I don't use any of its functions, it just displays the text, the rest I do by hand. The only reason I like doing it this way is cause that way I kinda have to have more of an understanding of what it is I am writing, as opposed to the program putting in lots of command and such and me not knowing what they really are doing.

I learnt all my html through browsing the internet, reading online tutorials and also reading the code of simple webpages. Doing this allowed me to see what did what in an actual web page's context.

[thelostdragon]

I think it always depends on what your website is about. As I know Yi is an artist or likes design. So if you want to make a website in order to show off your design skills, I wouldn't exactly use FrontPage.

FrontPage is a nice feature for simple sites. But I honestly only use it to find out the HTML code for something certain.

[Yi-Long]

Thanks guys... I think I'll download dreamweaver then.
I really hope it will be easy to use...

I said FP was easy to use and you ignore me, Slasher says DW is easy to use and you go with him

ehmmm... it actually has more to do with me already having Frontpage on my PC, so just downloading dreamweaver as well so I can take a look at both programs and see which one I like better
Sorry about crushing your feelings though

Slasher: My skill is absolute beginner. We should have been taught website-design in school, but my school sucked ass, so now I'm self-teaching myself a fair bit with 3d programs and now website-design I guess...

I've never heard of any school teaching it. You're supposed to take a specialist course which seems fair enough to me.

Well... my school was graphic design, and we had to buy a book about webdesign through school (heavily overpriced) and it was mentioned we would most likely also be taught in webdesign. Needless to say, we didnt.

Anyway, i'm downloading a Lynda tutorial about dreamweaver alongside the actual program, so hopefully all will be downloaded in the morning orso, and hopefully I can get some practice in the coming days. Once I've got some stuff up, I'll show you guys what I have and also link to your pages in my links-section etc...

My page will probably be movie and game reviews, plus I might have a blog on it (or link my website to a blogsite)
I'm thinking about also posting 'art' and stuff, cause it motivates more if you can also show it and get feedback etc... but not sure about it yet.

Ah well... we'll see what it turns out to be. First things first: learning how to build a nice looking website

[slasher13]

Well good luck to you Yi about learning, don't worry if it seems hard in the beginning, just try to go along, and you will get use to it

Just read and understand the tutorials, then build up from their, start small and progress

[Kurgan]

I'll throw my two pennies worth into this already answered question Dreamweaver (combined with Flash) allows you to make some pretty good looking sites. They take time to do, but the result can be worthwhile. I used Frontpage years ago and it seemed basic enough to get you going, but like LD, I found its uses limited.

[Kurgan]

The same applies to Dreamweaver but I couldn't be bothered to learn it I like and am used to the MS way of doing things...

...Like I said I like the interface I'm used to and can't be bothered to learn anything else. I didn't think Dreamweaver was all that great anyway.

I sense a general undercurrent of something here...

[bradavon]

What that I'm too used to Windows and Office to have any inclination to try something else? If so yes you're correct

Anything else I'll try other programs. To put it in context I use Corel Photo-Paint 12 and MS Digital Image Suite 2006 (MS's version of Photo-Paint and Photoshop, formerly called Picture-It) but use Photo-Paint more as it's much more powerful.

I drop back to Digital Image Suite for some things as it's generally easier to use.

I tried 12 DVD Burning programs when I got my DVD Writer and ended up using the 2 I'd originally installed (DVD Shrink + DVD Decrypter, ironically free and much better than the ones you pay for. I do use CloneDVD too).

I'm just so use to Windows and MS Office I've no interest in using anything else. Windows is a massive overhaul and Office is so deeply entrenched into work society it would be stupid IMO to learn another Office suite, plus it does far more than I ever need anyway.

FrontPage already comes with Office and looks/feel exactly like any other Office application I'm already used to. For my needs (basic HTML + some minor more advanced stuff) it's fine.

ehmmm... it actually has more to do with me already having Frontpage on my PC, so just downloading dreamweaver as well so I can take a look at both programs and see which one I like better
Sorry about crushing your feelings though

Good man for trying both. Which version of FrontPage? 2003 is quite a lot better.

I used Frontpage years ago and it seemed basic enough to get you going, but like LD, I found its uses limited.

For a novice I'd recommend FrontPage as it's learning curve (especially if you're used to the way MS apps work) is much less but you're probably right when you want to get professional to go to Dreamweaver.

My page will probably be movie and game reviews, plus I might have a blog on it (or link my website to a blogsite)
I'm thinking about also posting 'art' and stuff, cause it motivates more if you can also show it and get feedback etc... but not sure about it yet.

I'd like to add a feedback section to my site but haven't sat down to work out how to integrate one.

All I've got right now is a third party free guestbook which works well enough but for feedback just a custom form to e-mail me. It's fine for contacting me but pants for feedback.

The layout is basic (all pages white with black text) but tbh I was much more interested in the content then how it looked. I can't be bothered to make it look more professional, it takes enough time as it is.

I take stacks of photos and making them all web happy takes time (resized and all suitable filenames maybe, so they're displayed in the order I want them in).

[Lourdes]

What sort of site are you making? The stuff you're likely to come up with using FP/Dreamweaver is going to look like something done with FP/Dreamweaver.
There are lots of excellent CMS's around that look good and allow for plenty of customisation. And if you want something simpler than hand coding is the best way IMO and very easy to pick up.

[slasher13]

There are lots of excellent CMS's around that look good and allow for plenty of customisation. And if you want something simpler than hand coding is the best way IMO and very easy to pick up.

That my hobby project I got going at the moment, an simple CMS that can be used. Once it properly coded and everything is okay, i will put it on this forum so people can beta test it

[bradavon]

The stuff you're likely to come up with using FP/Dreamweaver is going to look like something done with FP/Dreamweaver.

You reckon? A site with just photos and text in could be made in any site. Even if you are right does it matter?

[Yi-Long]

ehmmm... it actually has more to do with me already having Frontpage on my PC, so just downloading dreamweaver as well so I can take a look at both programs and see which one I like better
Sorry about crushing your feelings though

Good man for trying both. Which version of FrontPage? 2003 is quite a lot better.

I checked, and it seems to be 2002. It was pre-installed on the PC I believe. I think I have office 2003 lying around somewhere as well...
Pretty weird btw that it's 2002, as I bought this PC end of 2005... so you'd think it would have a newer version.

My page will probably be movie and game reviews, plus I might have a blog on it (or link my website to a blogsite)
I'm thinking about also posting 'art' and stuff, cause it motivates more if you can also show it and get feedback etc... but not sure about it yet.

I'd like to add a feedback section to my site but haven't sat down to work out how to integrate one.

All I've got right now is a third party free guestbook which works well enough but for feedback just a custom form to e-mail me. It's fine for contacting me but pants for feedback.

The layout is basic (all pages white with black text) but tbh I was much more interested in the content then how it looked. I can't be bothered to make it look more professional, it takes enough time as it is.

I take stacks of photos and making them all web happy takes time (resized and all suitable filenames maybe, so they're displayed in the order I want them in).

I have no idea what I'm gonna do about feedback yes/no, or any of the other stuff. Right now I'm going through the Lynda tutorial movies, just getting a bit into it all... and then I'll install dreamweaver and get started and I'll just look around a bit to see what I like, what I want, how I want it, how to do it, etc etc...
I always take a little time getting into stuff...

[degeneration]

Oh another tip from my own experience. If you are going to be doing a review site, or hell with it regardless of what type of site you are going to do, learn how to do database stuff.

I've not long finished converting all my site to a database querying site and updating and maintenance is so ridiculously easy by comparison. Now all I do is add a new film to the database and it appears on the site in the correct places automatically. Before I had to update each and every page individually and it was cumbersome and took a lot more time. So learn basic ASP and database querying commands!!

[thelostdragon]

ASP? That's it? Aren't you working with MySQL as well?

[Yi-Long]

Oh another tip from my own experience. If you are going to be doing a review site, or hell with it regardless of what type of site you are going to do, learn how to do database stuff.

I've not long finished converting all my site to a database querying site and updating and maintenance is so ridiculously easy by comparison. Now all I do is add a new film to the database and it appears on the site in the correct places automatically. Before I had to update each and every page individually and it was cumbersome and took a lot more time. So learn basic ASP and database querying commands!!

thanks man, I'll definately keep that in mind and look into it. Where did you learn how to do that? Any websites?
I'll probably come back with lots of questions for you, when I'm at that stage btw

[Kurgan]

You've set yourself up, haven't you Degen?

[Yi-Long]

You've set yourself up, haven't you Degen?

I'm gonna ask if I can sleep over for a couple of months, so we can do some kind of internship*-thingy


(*= internship-thingy as in him teaching me 1 on 1 about all the webdesign stuff. NOT as in the Clinton-Lewinski internshop-thingy. Obviously. )

[thelostdragon]

(NOT as in the Clinton-Lewinski internshop-thingy. Obviously. )

Yeah, obviously.

[Yi-Long]

(NOT as in the Clinton-Lewinski internshop-thingy. Obviously. )

Yeah, obviously.

Wouldnt want him getting the wrong ideas...