Israel Seals Off Lebanon amid Bombing Raids

Literally. Unless it Should Go Elsewhere
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Israel Seals Off Lebanon amid Bombing Raids

Post by thelostdragon »

At least 27 civilians died in a night of bombing, with scores more injured as Israel flew more than 40 bombing raids over Lebanon.
The number of civilian victims rised to 41 this morning.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/interna ... 50,00.html

Whoa! Collective punishment can't be the right way of dealing with the kidnapping of the soldiers. Especially now that Israel is attacking on two fronts. I can't imagine Germany to bomb the shit out of Belgium if some dickheads from there kidnapped two soldiers.
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Post by grim_tales »

I agree LD, its like the teacher who keeps the class behind because of something one troublemaker did. WTF?
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Post by Yi-Long »

Those israeli's will grab onto anything as an excuse to bomb innocent people.
I heard Bush calling Israel a warrior of peace or something? What a fucking joke. They have surpressed innocent palestinians for decades now, everytime using the excuse of a couple of radical assholes to hurt the entire palestinian people. They create radicals themselfs by their actions.

It's sad to say, but I'd like to see Israel severely punished for this. the west isnt going to do it, EVER, so I guess arabic countries will have to punish them...

I wonder what would happen if I would kidnap an Israeli soldier. Would Israel attack Holland then? I doubt it.

Just as LD said, this is not the right way to deal with these kinds of incidents.
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Post by grim_tales »

As Shen (I think?) said, both Israel and Palestine have claims to their land. Israel was there "first" in Ancient times, but Palestinians lived there for about 1000 years (something like that) before the state of Israel was established in 1948.
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Post by Yi-Long »

Werent the jews also living in Rome? Why didnt 'we' give them back a piece of Italy? I dont give a shit who's land it is: it's a fact that Israel is surpressing the Palestinian people. just look at who has all the weapons and all the money, and look at the ones who have no future and only stones to protect themselfs?
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Post by grim_tales »

I didn't say they weren't. They are, I just meant both sides are as bad as each other and causing shit.
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Post by thelostdragon »

grim_tales wrote:I just meant both sides are as bad as each other and causing shit.
OK, Israel is the one side? Who is the other side? The Palestinians? The Lebanese? LOL! Their problem, as is the fighters of terrorism's problem, is that they don't have a clearly defined enemy.
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Post by grim_tales »

I'm talking about Palestine. I should of made that clear, sorry LD.
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Post by thelostdragon »

Yeah, I know. But who is Palestine? The Palestinians? The Palestinian government? Hizb-Allah is hardly the Palestinian government, nor are Palestinian civilians, who are being attacked, though.

Haifa was attacked today from rockets from Beirut. Whoa! That's about 80km away. Where did they get these rockets from? Iran? Syria? Hmmm... or America maybe? Guess we'll never know for certain.
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Post by Yi-Long »

thelostdragon wrote:
Haifa was attacked today from rockets from Beirut. Whoa! That's about 80km away. Where did they get these rockets from? Iran? Syria? Hmmm... or America maybe? Guess we'll never know for certain.
They built them themselves with pepsi light and some mints ;)

You're right though. America and Israel are making billions of dollars on arms-sales alone, so they thrive on wars...
As you said, there were now over 50 innocent lebonese civilians killed by the Israeli attacks. Brought on by 2 Israeli soldiers being kidnapped by Hezbollah. Where were these 2 Israeli soldiers? And how stupid are they that they keep getting kidnapped?
Not to say that Hezbollah was right to kidnap those 2 soldiers, obviously, as Hezbollah is just as much to blame for this recent escelation of violence as Israel is...

Yet again though, the innocent people suffer while the politicians and armies and extremists decide to lob bombs at eachother...
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Post by grim_tales »

As Yi says LD, I'm talking about the Government/armies or whatever who are to blame for the violence on both sides. But if you say who is palestine, by the same token who is "israel"? Fighters? The army? The Government? Who's to say ordinary Israelis want this bloodbath too?
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Post by the68monkey »

First off, a disclaimer from me, as I don't want to get involved in a discussion or debate here. Anything written in the article I'm about to link to does not necessarily reflect the views of me, as an American!

Time magazine, which is often quite guilty of oversimplification in its explanations, tackles an explanation of why the Israeli response to Hizballah's kidnapping of its soldiers has been, and continues to be, unusually harsh and seemingly out of proportion for the incident. It's a semi-informative read, if you're interested:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... thy_neighb
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Post by Kurgan »

I was hoping that article would put me to sleep :P
But, to no avail.
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Post by Markgway »

I still suggest Coldplay.
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Post by bradavon »

Am I right saying Israel is bombing civilian targets? If so how can they be stopping terrorism as Bush says?

Can someone briefly post what all this is all about?

I've tried a few times to get my head around it but due to it being so complicated and lots of politics involved I soon get lost.
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Post by the68monkey »

Try reading the Time article.
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Post by thelostdragon »

bradavon wrote:Can someone briefly post what all this is all about?
Turn on the news. Killing innocent civillians is never justified, no matter what that Time magazine article says.
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Post by bradavon »

What Time article? I was hoping someone like you LD would be able to give a reason for the hatred these countries share.

It's been going on for decades.
Turn on the news.
And that would answer my question how? I wasn't asking what is happening now but what are the root causes. Whenever I have turned on the news this isn't discussed as it's assumed everyone knows.

From what I understand these aren't new issues, far from it.

It does seem very extreme to bomb a country just because they're holding two of your soldiers. That's not how democracies are supposed to work. Imagine if Blair, Bush, Merkel etc . . . started bombing another country for just those reasons.

Off topic but the German Chancellor is the same as a Prime Minister, right? Only the name is different.
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Post by thelostdragon »

bradavon wrote:I wasn't asking what is happening now but what are the root causes. Whenever I have turned on the news this isn't discussed as it's assumed everyone knows.
Where shall I begin... oh yes. Once upon a time there was Abraham.

[...]

After Germany lost WW2 and hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed in concentration camps, the Allies have decided that Jews should be given their own country with their own government. As the Jewish journalist Henryk M. Broder wrote, "If there was historical justice in this world, Israel would now be in Germany as a kind of compensation for the Holocaust."

It's true that it was their land once, but that was before Islam (about 1400 years ago). It was under Islamic/Arabic reign ever since until 1948 when the Jews got the country by force. My father was 16 and happened to be there with his father when troops invaded Jerusalem. As my grandfather was a general in the Jordanian army my father was given a rifle and grenades and he was positioned on the outer city walls (yes, those they are attacking in "Kingdom of Heaven").

Anyway, back to the story. As a matter of fact, thousands of Palestinians fled to Jordan and even their grand children are still living in refugee camps in Jordan. I'm not going to count the negative changes for the countires surrounding Israel (like the sudden stop of running water and Jordan river suddenly drying up).

About 14.000.000 Jews live on this planet which is about 0.2% of the world's population. 5.3 millions live in Israel. During the Islamic reign there were even more. Now they have received the country by force and violence, their civilians and military are attacked frequently by those who are against the new government, which in their and in my eyes is an artificial/fake structure/country (whatever you wanna call it). As responses to these attacks, the Israeli government has always been doing a collective punishment by air raiding/invading/entering and searching houses/ etc. of Palestinian civilians.

So much for the background info.

The way I see it, the war could have been stopped many years ago by the great USA. "COULD", I say. They have stopped many other wars before. But it seems as if they need Israel as a military springboard for the Middle East. In order to keep chaos constant in that region.
Off topic but the German Chancellor is the same as a Prime Minister, right? Only the name is different.
Well... yeah... you could put it this way. But then we also have the Federal President.
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Post by Yi-Long »

You say hundreds of thousands of jews died in the concentrationcamps: Werent it about 5-6 million jews that died?

Also, I think Brad was meaning the situation with libanon? Not sure though.

I did enjoy the quick history lesson though. As you know I agee with you and many many others that the Jewish people should never have gotten that land. It's been one big mess ever since.
Sadly, the whole world still seems on a guilt-trip or whatever because we looked the otehr way when Hitler did his thing. Plus obviously the USA is still and always will be licking Israel's balls no matter what they do, cause of the huge jewish influence they have in the USA on politics and business...

Plus... war sells. Bombing muslims actually makes the USA & Israel money, because of their arms-industry. If anyone still thinks that those goverments are still there for the people, think again. it's all money and business now. Conquering land, oil, whatever.

Anyway, I'm here in safe Holland, playing some videogames, watching some anime, occasionally checking out CNN and aljazeera to see what's happening, etc etc...
It's easy when you're not involved in anyway.
But I know that if I was born a palestine I'd hate the jewish occupiers from the depths of my heart. And if i was a jew, born in Israel, and some radical palestines had blown up a bus or a school and caused the death of my girlfriend, I'd probably hate Palestines (although I think i'd still be smart and critical enough to also see my own goverment's crimes, unless their media is brainwashing them...)

It's sad these kind of things happen. And I'm pretty sure that in 30 years from now we'll still be having these discussions and outrage etc...

Neither side is gonna back down. the Israeli's feel they deserve that land because some german loony has killed their ancestors. Palestinians feel it's THEIR land, because it was taken/stolen from them.
Personally, I cant understand why jewish people even feel the need to go and live in israel? Why not just go live in America, Canada, Europe whatever?

Anyway, what Israel is doing is dead-wrong, no matter what our western media is trying to tell us. Self-defence my ass: you dont bomb civilians out of self-defence. You don't go raving mad over 1-2 abducted soldiers. Normal countries will negotiate and try to get the issue solved without any casualties.

Isnt there some deserted island or something which we can give to the Jewish? Their own countries, and no annoying neighbours for them to fight with...
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Post by Markgway »

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Post by Yi-Long »

Markgway wrote:RELIGION=WAR=DEATH=RELIGION=WAR=DEATH=RELIGION=WAR=DEATH=
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Well... Mark has finally snapped and lost his last remaining marbles...

We did it, LD! We finally did it! :D
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Post by Kurgan »

What does the last death on each of those lines equal Mark?! You kept a cogent argument going on till the the very end and left us all hanging! :D
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Post by grim_tales »

Yi is right, something like 6 million Jews died at the camps :(
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Post by Shen »

actually, research indicates that the figures were significantly lower than 6million, after people got ahold of the well kept concentration camps, and the figures added up to nowhere near 6 million, also mass graves found the bodies again, nowhere near 6 million.,..so there is debate to whether the holocaust actually happened to the scale that history tells us..however there is always the possibility that the records were fraudulent in the fact they didnt keep an accurate count as seemingly suggested and bodies are buried elesehwere....

actually i have no real opinion on this, the fact one person died sucks, i dont know if it happened or not, my history lessons tell me it did my own research tells me it didnt, so yeah, personally im inclined to side slightly more with my own research since mainstream history books have been proven to be exaggerated or even completley off the mark...but more research is required...

(man im so going to jail if i were in central europe :D)

personally i dont give a damn who gets the land, i just give a damn that people still think the best way to get what they want is to go bomb thousands of people. if it werent so stupid it would be funny because of the incompetence of people to think properly. this is why i hate religion, and race classification (and humans in general sometimes), wtf, just get off your moral highground, stop acting like kids in the playground and get on with one another, it wouldnt be too hard to live together , side by side, without the damn wars would it? all it takes is a little tolerance and respect.

and your right yi, the governments arent there for the people, whilst theres money to be made, they'll be creating wars all over this godforsaken earth at the expense of peoples lives, the term "illegal war" and "war crimes" makes me laugh