Live 8

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Jul 2005, 08:15

Who saw this then?

Although I didnt see everything, I liked the bands etc better as the evening went on.. Who the hell are Velvet Revolver anyway? Because no-one knew them they didnt go down too well.

The costumed take on Sargeant Pepper at the beginning was fun

Peter Kay doing a few rounds of Amarillo then introducing The Who as The Spice Girls.

I must admit I liked Robbie's performance of Angels involving the crowd (thats a great song), The Who doing Won't Get Fooled Again were great also (the one they did in The Simpsons

) - and Paul McCartney's voice may not have been what it was yet he was very good, doing a few classics at the end, starting off with a rocking Get Back, the gentle Long and Winding Road and finally the happy singalong na-na-na bit from Hey Jude. Top stuff

I saw the Madonna clip on the news this morning where she sang Like A Prayer, and the African girl who was starving in 1985 walked on stage a healthy and beautiful young woman.

My friend Tomomi says she was there!

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 03 Jul 2005, 09:16

I watched about 4 hours of it, all the acts I saw were crap. I switched on around about the time U2 performed and turned it off when Bryan Adams came on.

Had it on in the background while I surfed and bashed the thing with my mate on MSN.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Jul 2005, 09:44

I liked the evening night acts better. Velvet Revolver (?) in London died on their arse or at least looked bemused

I liked Ms. Dynamite's take on Bob Marley's "Redemption Song" though

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Jul 2005, 13:24

It's a pity more countries weren't involved.

Sure it's a British lead idea but only two European countries (one being the UK). Only in in Asia, only one in the Americas, none in Australasia.

I wanted to see more footage of the concerts around the world. Sure most people are going to be interested in the London festival but what about at least the other British concerts?

The list of G8 countries is a little strange also. 1 Asian country, 4-5 European (depending on how you look at it) and 2 from the Americas. Why aren't the likes of Australia involved? (sorry NZ). Not powerful enough I guess but is Canada powerful?

Where is Spain? It has the fourth largest population in Europe (fifth if you include Russia) but is never nowhere to be seen when it comes to the big decisions.

grim_tales wrote:I liked Ms. Dynamite's take on Bob Marley's "Redemption Song" though

I liked that too and think she's talented but it annoyed me how she disssed you and I for not doing enough, for treating Africans with disrespect.

A: If I read what she was saying correctly slavery finished hundreds of years ago.
B: There is a part of me that feels Africa should deal with it's own problems (to an extent). Why do the African governments need foreign help so much? You don't see the British or American government asking for handout all the time!

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Jul 2005, 13:27

Guys,

Show your support and sign the Live 8 list at:

http://www.live8live.com/list/

I signed it

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Jul 2005, 13:41

I also think it's a little sad people actually believe these concerts and G8 generally are going to stop World Poverty.

For a start G8 AFAIK is only based around Africa. Sure it's by far the poorest continent but there are many, many as poor countries in other continents.

Secondly you can throw millions and millions of dollars at Africa, cancel all world debt, allow for free trade but the poor citizens will still be poor why? Because their governments are far more corrupt than all of the Western European, Australasian and North American governments put together and put simply their is a sentiment of lying down and taking it across Africa (bar South Africa maybe).

Don't get me wrong they are extremely poor and I'm grossly generalising but why has every other nation including nations 30-40 years ago who were easily as poor progressed in some way shape or form. Most Africans are as poor today as they were 40-50 years ago.

I personally believe to an extent they rely on handouts to much, it's been happening for so long it's become built into their psyche.

I watched a feature comparing Zimbabwe (I think) with Malaysia who both achieved British independence at exactly the same time but look at Malaysia today a thriving Asian country compared with Zimbabwe who's barely progressed at all.

The average wage in the 1960s of Zimbabwe was 185 dollars a year compared with Malaysia's 200 dollars. Today the average Zimbabwean earns 220 dollars compared with a Malaysian's 3500 dollars. It showed how a fruit originally exported from Zimbabwe to Malaysia is now a thriving business in Malaysia with truck loads of the fruit grown each day compared with a few hundred (if that) grown in Zimbabwe.

The governments are going to stay corrupt, the warlords are still there and the people will stay poor but does this mean we should do nothing certainly not but lets get real for a minute!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Jul 2005, 13:53

What does the G stand for?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Jul 2005, 15:33

Not sure. Government?
Britain abolished slavery in the 18th century (I think?) BTW I thought she was referring to Western nations as a whole, not just the UK.

Good points Brad, well made. It must be made sure any money gets to the people who need it, fact is, there are more hungry people in Ethiopia today than there were in 1984.

But there is enough food in the world for everyone, just a (very) unequal distribution of it.

Did you see Bill Gates' bit on Live 8? It was said he has donated $5bn over the years (truly a massive amount) but I'm sure the guy is a dollar trillionaire

Geldof wants to raise awareness not just throw money at the problem but I'm sure you knew that.
Weren't we the ones who would always sell arms/weapons to the African countries?

I don't think it will "stop" World Poverty once and for all at all, far from it.
Consider this: a farmer in Africa struggles to make his living in a parched, water-deprived area. Then suddenly lorry loads of wheat and stuff turn up and when word gets around, the locals quite understandably, go for the new stuff rather than paying you for yours. Brilliant.
Thanks to the kindness of many people thousands of miles away, the locals end up getting wheat buckshee, and you go out of business.

However, cancelling debt and freezing politicians bank accounts (and giving people the chance to help themselves - remember those TV ads say what you've said, that Africans dont want handouts) may start to help.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Jul 2005, 15:58

There is more than enough food, so much is wasted!

Geldof is preaching to the converted "we" can't truly fixed Africa's problems, no way.

Assuming the money saved from world debt goes to the poor!

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Jul 2005, 16:07

1) Yes I agree. There is enough/more than enough. Thats what I meant. 25% of the population has 3 quarters (I think) of the world's food.

3) Yes it must go to the poor. AFAIK the writing off debt part is almost done now, the Chancellor (?) Gordon Brown has to do that. Did you see Andrew Marr with Ross?
He said he didnt expect there would be lasting change but it was a step in the right direction, or something like that - writing off debt (pledge 1) is easy, it wasn't said which countries would agree to double aid, for example would US/Japan do it? (Pledge 2), and establishing fair trade (Pledge 3) is harder still.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Jul 2005, 19:30

Who should Geldof preach to if "we" are already converted?
Mark where are you?

We could use your input here

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Jul 2005, 20:41

grim_tales wrote:Who should Geldof preach to if "we" are already converted?

The African Governments of which he knows he has no hold over.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 05 Jul 2005, 12:33

Bush has said he won't sign up to anything which could "damage the US economy" apparently.

Did you see the story on News At 10 (I think?) last night Brad? It said Nigera is one of the most corrupt countries but it has just appointed a new finance minister (who has started off by sacking 100 corrupt people in the Government). I think they said she was a mother as well.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 05 Jul 2005, 17:32

What does the G stand for?

G8 = Group 8.
=Coalition of eight of the world's leading industrialized nations.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 05 Jul 2005, 17:37

I thought it maybe meant Gleneagles (the building where they're meeting).

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 05 Jul 2005, 17:59

I dont see the point in it all anyway

all the cash sent over there could have been paid to mercs and send them in and kill all the scum, problem solved!

as someone in the end will have to go in and kill these insane scunbags, as soon as they can too.
We went to soo many pointless counties and started wars and interfered in others crap, when somewhere like Africa needs help now!!!!!!!!!!!!! and no one will go wankers they are.

I would glady pay some cash towards some Mercs to go over there and kill they lot of them

slowly I hope, as no way in hell will more cash do anything at all in any way, except maybe water down the problem a little bit. They dont need cash, they have more than enuff! they need the crazy killers killed! Cash doesnt do that.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 05 Jul 2005, 23:23

romerojpg wrote:I dont see the point in it all anyway all the cash sent over there could have been paid to mercs and send them in and kill all the scum, problem solved!

If only we could all live in the world of Romero!

grim_tales wrote:Bush has said he won't sign up to anything which could "damage the US economy" apparently.

That sounds far IMO. He needs to look after his people first.

grim_tales wrote:Did you see the story on News At 10 (I think?) last night Brad?

No I didn't.

What does her being a mother have to do with the price of fish?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 06 Jul 2005, 07:46

I don't know.

Just trying to remember points from the broadcast. The main point was she wants to sort corruption out.

Do you mean "That sounds fair" with reference to Bush? Fair enough he wants to look after his country but that doesnt mean he has to ignore others. No one country is at the centre of the universe

For example his "Its' not in the interests of America" to sign the Kyoto agreement and be greener?
Huh?
It affects the whole planet in the end

Interesting program on C5 last night "Big Ideas that changed the World" though (about environmentalism).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Jul 2005, 11:01

grim_tales wrote:Do you mean "That sounds fair" with reference to Bush? Fair enough he wants to look after his country but that doesnt mean he has to ignore others. No one country is at the centre of the universe

Yes that's what I meant or rather the American Government to be precise.

American's and America generally can think it is at the centre! (not all but some). To be fair Bush isn't ignoring others he's just being practical about it; I'm guessing.

grim_tales wrote:For example his "Its' not in the interests of America" to sign the Kyoto agreement and be greener?
Huh?
It affects the whole planet in the end

On the surface I agree but that sounds like it has been taken out of context which is a deadly game to play (not that you are doing this).

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 06 Jul 2005, 11:40

The catch with the Kyoto agreement is in the science behind it. not everyone agrees with it, or more to the point there is much conflicting evidence, with the earth squad choosing to blindly believe only the 'its destroying the world' reports and the oil squad (big business, american right etc etc) doing exactly the same just with the alternative evidence. What Bush is saying is that until its proven eithr ay he doesnt think its in the US's best interest to follow the guidlines set out in Kyoto.

Now the catch here is theres always conflicting evidence. the science community is as biased as the rest of us whether they admit it or not. Like religeos texts, the data they collect about the environment is so complex it can be interpreted many ways, and people will always dismiss alternative interpretations becasue its human nature to dismiss that which contradicts what we believe in.

So, essentially bush really is pulling a fast one becasue the definitive evidence he is asking for can NEVER be achieved, there will always be those of high enough status and reputation willing to disagree. He (or at least his advisors) know this full well, and like the scientific community in general he knows that the evidence is almost overwhelming, but like the majority of the human population he's more interested in himself and those he is answerable to than the world in general. Thats why the world (or if we're lucky just mankind) is doomed. we should stop trying and get it over with quick...

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 06 Jul 2005, 11:42

hehe, and I just realised this was originally a discussion about the music

so... I hear Pink Floyd were a big dissapointment then?? :drunken:

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Jul 2005, 11:58

LOL it's now transmogrified * itself into something else.

What alternative evidence Mordib? Surely there can be no argument we're killing the planet?

*(which probably isn't the right world but it is a damn cool one

)

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 06 Jul 2005, 13:22

Did you see the C5 program Mordib? According to the presenter, even if the US signs the Kyoto agreement, it will only delay the rising sea levels by about 6 years (than if we did nothing at all). To a certain extent I agree with him, people love whipping up hysteria/scare stories don't they?
With half the amount of money Kyoto would cost ($150m/year), there's enough money to get food, water and education for every person in the developing world on the planet. He said that making the countries rich is the key to making them "greener". (in effect).
London's air is the cleanest its ever been for ca. 400 years.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 06 Jul 2005, 16:08

As I said just send in the Army, or far cheaper Mercs and kill the scum who RULE the nation and kill millions of people thru there hands and thru there actions, problem solved!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Jul 2005, 18:23

Romero I think you're getting confused we've now moved on to global warming. Keep up

.

Which btw nation are you talking about? There are lots in Africa.

The truth is the Kyoto agreement doesn't go half as far enough to properly solve the problem. America creates something like 25-50% of the worlds pollution (and that's just the USA).