American Gangster

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 14 Oct 2007, 15:00

I am not the biggest fan of blade Runner, it just never hit me like it does others. But its far from bad thats for sure. Im personally do not care how influential a film is, thats a crap point to even raise, just becuase something is influential does not make it good in any way as some fo the most influential filsm ever made, are bad

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 14 Oct 2007, 15:38

I couldn't agree more, just look at the borefest Citizen Kane. Very influential, technically brilliant but boy is the story dull. It's worth mentioning though as influential films as much as CK and BR should be acknowledged.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 14 Oct 2007, 15:54

Nah they should not even be acknowledged, it does not make them any better or worthwhile. If the films great, then so be it.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 14 Oct 2007, 16:06

From a cinema point of view, oh yes they should.
To use a music analogy, you're free not to like Elvis, or The Beatles. But to blithely dismiss such artists as "bad" and not see the influence acts such as those had on music is bordering on ignorance.

The trailer for American Gangster looks good by the way.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 14 Oct 2007, 16:23

grim_tales wrote:From a cinema point of view, oh yes they should.
To use a music analogy, you're free not to like Elvis, or The Beatles. But to blithely dismiss such artists as "bad" and not see the influence acts such as those had on music is bordering on ignorance.

Grim you are talking 100% Bullshit.

If an artist is shit, they are shit. Does not matter how influential they are.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 14 Oct 2007, 16:31

In your opinion. In mine and most others Grim is right on the money.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 14 Oct 2007, 16:35

You and Grim need to mate.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 14 Oct 2007, 16:56

bradavon wrote:Considering you're pretty much the only person who dislikes it yes.

I never said I disliked GLADIATOR. It was entertaining enough. I just don't think it's a great film or anything close. Why do I have to love it or hate it?

How can I possibly prove it when I've already said Thelma and Louise is a great female-driven buddy movie but you've said I cannot include that one.

You said my comment was misogynist. If so then you'll be able to prove me wrong and give me a list of good female buddy movies. I'm still waiting...

As I think it is I am including it, tough .

Well, I didn't care for it, and I value my opinion more than yours, surprisingly enough...

Harvey Kietel plays a good guy, he has a bigger part than those to too.

Isn't he the cop that "forces" them to drive off the cliff? They commit suicide rather than submit to a man - any man - if that isn't feminist arse then I don't know what is?

As in a women has to be either crying all the time pining over a man or a female action heroin in the vein of Lara Croft and Elektra. If they're neither to many they must be feminist. Oh please.

Is there a subtext to your comment?

But seriously, I don't think a female character has to be either a butch ass-kicker or a weeping sop. I never implied that they did.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 14 Oct 2007, 17:03

EvaUnit02 wrote:Alien is supposed to be a tense, atmospheric and claustrophobic HORROR film.

SUPPOSED to be. I just found it rather dull and cold. I honestly didn't give two shits about ANY of the characters. Not even Ripley who's far better written in the sequels.

I was taking the piss, did you need a smiley to make it obvious?

Guess so. I didn't realise my opinions were kept on record. Maybe I would've spotted the piss-take had it actually been humerous.

"Clueless" by Amy Heckerling, seriously.

Buddy movie? I thought it was mostly about a girl trying to get a guy to pay attention to her.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 14 Oct 2007, 17:05

romerojpg wrote:Not worth even talking about it really and you are all wasting your time, if Mark is no fan, telling him why you are will not make him a fan

Lol, true enough.

I was impressed by Blade Runner's visual design, but that doesn't make a movie for me.

The story and characters were all blah.

romerojpg wrote:You and Grim need to mate.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 14 Oct 2007, 17:22

romerojpg wrote:You and Grim need to mate.

WTF?

Markgway wrote:You said my comment was misogynist. If so then you'll be able to prove me wrong and give me a list of good female buddy movies. I'm still waiting...

No I said it was sexist. I also said it's difficult to supply a list period let alone a good one when there are very few female buddy films in the first place. It's not a popular theme.

Markgway wrote:Isn't he the cop that "forces" them to drive off the cliff? They commit suicide rather than submit to a man - any man - if that isn't feminist arse then I don't know what is?

WTF? He's the one who tries to stop them. Besides I don't get what is wrong with feminism anyway. Without it women still wouldn't have the right to vote.

Markgway wrote:But seriously, I don't think a female character has to be either a butch ass-kicker or a weeping sop. I never implied that they did.

Good but that's how women are mostly portrayed in films. I was just commenting it's nice to see strong female characters, even if they maybe feminists as you say.

The story and characters were all blah.

They are in most martial arts films, way worse in fact but you're a big fan of those

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 14 Oct 2007, 22:35

WTF? He's the one who tries to stop them.

Yeah, but they'd still rather die than be arrested by a man in a man's world. Boo-hoo-hoo!!!

Besides I don't get what is wrong with feminism anyway. Without it women still wouldn't have the right to vote.

That's equal rights, feminism is a bunch of left-wing lesbians who want all the good shit that comes with being "equal" without the negatives. Did women have to go off and fight the two World Wars? No!! These women would not want TRUE equality they want their own idealised version of it.

They are in most martial arts films, way worse in fact but you're a big fan of those

Depends on the film... you can't say all martial arts films are like that. In fact if you knew anything about martial arts cinema you'd know that they were the first to create the modern idea of a female heroine. Actresses like Cheng Pei-Pei, Lily Ho, Li Ching, Ching Li were way ahead of what the rest of the world was putting out in terms of female characters. They often got top billing over their male counterparts even when the men were the main characters such was their popularity! You can't judge every Kung Fu film by the worst example. Check out some of the late 60s Shaw Bros wuxia.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 15 Oct 2007, 07:21

I think Romero is saying that Brad and I have almost the same opinion on what is influential.
I'd say equal pay for women (for equal work that is) is also deserved, equal rights. And sometimes they don't even have that (still). Is that fair? I don't think so.
As for Clueless, it's a teen update of Jane Austen's "Emma" no?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Oct 2007, 13:38

Yeah, but they'd still rather die than be arrested by a man in a man's world. Boo-hoo-hoo!!!

It's been a while since I saw Thelma and Louise but I didn't take that from it at all. I think you're reading way to much into it. Anyway moving on . . .

That's equal rights, feminism is a bunch of left-wing lesbians who want all the good shit that comes with being "equal" without the negatives. Did women have to go off and fight the two World Wars? No!! These women would not want TRUE equality they want their own idealised version of it.

Fair point, agreed.

Depends on the film... you can't say all martial arts films are like that.

Again fair point, except we were talking decent stories and characters. I didn't say martial arts films don't have strong female characters.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 15 Oct 2007, 16:50

grim_tales wrote: I'd say equal pay for women (for equal work that is) is also deserved, equal rights. And sometimes they don't even have that (still). Is that fair? I don't think so.

you mean like those whiney women´s tennis players who play two sets less than the men yet now get equal prize money :x do you know of any normal job Grim where a woman gets paid less than a man for doing the same work ? a woman postie gets the same as a male postie for example...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Oct 2007, 17:30

do you know of any normal job Grim where a woman gets paid less than a man for doing the same work?

I hear it's the norm. in corporate circles. Statistics say women get paid less than men, overall. I'm sure it definitely still happens.

you mean like those whiney women´s tennis players who play two sets less than the men yet now get equal prize money.

How did that manage to happen?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 15 Oct 2007, 19:45

if a male brickie can cement 800 bricks in an 8 hr day and a female brickie can manage 500 over the same period then damn right the male should be paid more.it´s called productivity

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Oct 2007, 21:50

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 15 Oct 2007, 22:39

Brad, we don't need to see pics of your girlfriend, thanks.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Oct 2007, 07:46

Well, the tennis example isn't equality in my book - if the women players played up to 5 sets at Wimbledon I would have no problem with equal prize money, but they don't, so it's not fair.
I'm sure sex discrimination against women still exsists in the workplace to some degree.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 16 Oct 2007, 11:04

Bad example. Chyna practically has a penis, I kid you not.

bradavon wrote:http://www.pmpnetwork.com/joanie_laurer/chyna2.jpg

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 16 Oct 2007, 11:11

grim_tales wrote: I'm sure sex discrimination against women still exsists in the workplace to some degree.

give us some examples then.where i work,the females are paid exactly the same as the men.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Oct 2007, 11:28

As Brad says I'm sure it still happens (eg women will get paid less in corporate positions).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4195852.stm

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 16 Oct 2007, 12:37

I've got a female friend who works in civil engineering and she's paid considerably less than her male counterparts. Apparently the industry is still extremely male-orientated even today.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Oct 2007, 13:01

Shouldnt this go in Debate now?