Doctor Who - SPOILERS

slasher13 · Post by **slasher13** » 24 Jun 2007, 10:30

I enjoyed this episode it was really really good, very dark as well, a downbeat ending which i enjoyed. One thing is that when the reporter was dying by the orb, The master goes outside, opens the door, then closes, opens it again, then close, etc. I can understand the humour in this, but this really isn't what the master does in past series of the Doctor. It was just one of those things that quirk me. Season 3 latter part is great, poor beginning but now on form.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 24 Jun 2007, 13:35

All right sorry Brad, I didnt know you knew

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Jun 2007, 15:22

slasher13 wrote:Season 3 latter part is great, poor beginning but now on form.

Agreed.

As for The Master, very little of how he acts in this episode is the same as how he acted in past series. The Master of old was serene at times. I can't imagine this re-imagining ever being serene, Simms hamms it up too much. It works though.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 26 Jun 2007, 03:08

I saw the episode and it was fantastic. Those orb thingies scream Phantasm Sphere rip off though.

slasher13 wrote: One thing is that when the reporter was dying by the orb, The master goes outside, opens the door, then closes, opens it again, then close, etc. I can understand the humour in this, but this really isn't what the master does in past series of the Doctor. It was just one of those things that quirk me.

I suppose you missed the memo saying that Timelords' personalities change with each regeneration.

That dark humour was excellent though, I'm always surprised at how daring Dr Who can be considering that it's a still a children's show.

I agree with Brad, S2 was consistently the best.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Jun 2007, 18:06

EvaUnit02 wrote:I suppose you missed the memo saying that Timelords' personalities change with each regeneration.

I wouldn't make such sarcy comments when you're basing your sole knowledge of Who on the past 3 series! Which break just as many of the rules as they've retained.

You're quite correct their personality does change but in the case of The Master he'd never have done that in the classic series. Personally I don't mind though as like you say their personalities do change.

EvaUnit02 wrote:That dark humour was excellent though, I'm always surprised at how daring Dr Who can be considering that it's a still a children's show.

The current 3 series are NOTHING to how dark it has got in the past. Some serials have even been 15 rated. It's always been a kids show but at times it's been bordering on teenagers minimum.

RTD definitely plays it more for the kids than they used to. These aren't negative comments btw just pointing out it's different now.

You should check out "Genesis of the Daleks", it's a 6 parter (25 minutes each) with a bit of padding but otherwise classic Who writing. Showing how the Daleks were created by one man Davros. That gets really dark. Thankfully I don't think RTD has re-written this storyline, like he did for the Cybermen.

Why he felt the need to completely re-write that storyline I don't know. In the classic series the Cybermen often looked different but were always originally an alien race who added robotic parts and over time lost more and more of their emotions. Like the Borg, no doubt where the idea was stolen from.

I love the New Who but do wish he'd stick to the Who conventions just a wee bit more at times. Again a niggle, as like I say New Who is more good than bad.

slasher13 · Post by **slasher13** » 27 Jun 2007, 07:12

ahh Tom Baker "Genesis of the Daleks", one of my treasured Doctor Who DVD, great set. I want to get "The Caves of Androzani", Peter Davision as Doctor Who, I liked him and still remember him from the early 80's as the Doctor. I haven't watched this part, but apparently it is very very dark and pretty grim. "Doctor Who: Resurrection of the Daleks" is kinda of a sequel to "Genesis of the Daleks", I enjoyed this, although not quite dark, but good story which carrys on Davros, and him fighting within the different factions of the Daleks

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Jun 2007, 20:12

I have Caves of Androzani

. I've not seen it yet but hear it's one of the all time greats, that's 15 rated. I asked around after Series 2 was over and this plus Genesis of the Daleks came out top (of Who on DVD at the time).

I grew up on McCoy so missed all the previous ones when they aired. I've only seen a handful really of the Who series prior to McCoy. I only saw "Genesis of the Daleks" on DVD for the first time last year. I didn't know "Resurrection of the Daleks" was semi-connected to Genesis, cool.

I also have the "Begginnings" Hartnell box set which has the very first Dalek episode. I've not watched any of those yet.

The Remastering work is outstanding, pity the Who DVDs are a wee bit expensive but when you see the amount of work that goes into each (with lots of new and old extras) you can see why.

p.s - Are there any others currently on DVD you'd recommend?

slasher13 · Post by **slasher13** » 01 Jul 2007, 19:58

Ooo the last season was great, the ending really shows off how great David T is as the Doctor. Really felt sorry for him, his anger and sorrow. Didn't like that they killed of the master, yes I know his girlfriend picks up the ring, so she may be possessed by the master, also i don't like how every doctor who episode where it goes too dark, that they clean it up. With the 1st season were the dalek killed off everyone, Rose gave life to everyone again.

So we know who the face of boa is, that was a good tie up

Can't wait for Season 4

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 01 Jul 2007, 20:36

I wouldn't bother with the spoiler tag, the title of the thread has SPOILERS in it and Eva knows better not to read until he's seen the finale.

Compared to the rest of Series 3 it was excellent but really that's not saying much, except for the earlier 2 parter which was bloody brilliant this series has been a let down.

The finale had moments of genius, especially when they killed the Master, so much emotion and fantastic acting. The Doctor hates but loves The Master, genius.

The revelation of who the toclofane were was also very well done. It tooks me a while to work out where The Master got all the parts from for their cube machines.

All if you think about it it made absolutely no sense. There could've been no more than a few thousand people who went on to that ship yet there millions and millions of toclofane. Huh?

But while on the one hand Martha leading the show was inspired it was also annoying. That's twice now we've had an entire story with barely any Dr. Who. I wish bloody RTD would stop doing that. I did like the bit at the end when the Doctor and the Master fought on the cliff, but then it was over before it had really started.

So yes overall I enjoyed it but it was definitely lacking compared to the genius that was series 2 finale, okay so I wasn't expecting it to come close to that but overall I was still left a little bit disappointed, just a little though.

I think it's definite The Master re-generated into his girlfriend, definitely.

I hope the writing gets back on form for series 4, half a decent series isn't what I expect. Even Series 2 which had THE worst episode of the entire 3 series overall had more good episodes than bad. It's clear to me RTD and the crew are getting tired and running out of ideas.

It was an interesting twist to see Martha leave at the end, obviously she'll be back.

I can see the Christmas special will be another tosh episode. Both so far have been woeful, thrown together, with way to much stupid humour, while the first proper episode comes.

slasher13 · Post by **slasher13** » 01 Jul 2007, 20:49

bradavon wrote: Compared to the rest of Series 3 it was excellent but really that's not saying much, except for the earlier 2 parter which was bloody brilliant this series has been a let down.

Mmm I think I might need to rewatch some episodes, but it has been a bit poor this season

The finale had moments of genius, especially when they killed the Master, so much emotion and fantastic acting. The Doctor hates but loves The Master, genius.

Yup, the classic series had the master having respect for the doctor, and RTD actually done it well to have the doctor love the master, this was very good writing

The revelation of who the toclofane were was also very well done. It tooks me a while to work out where The Master got all the parts from for their cube machines.

All if you think about it it made absolutely no sense. There could've been no more than a few thousand people who went on to that ship yet there millions and millions of toclofane. Huh?

Yes that is actually a plot hole, I didn't realise that, the twist was pretty good, I liked the way it tied up, I wasn't expecting that.

But while on the one hand Martha leading the show was inspired it was also annoying. That's twice now we've had an entire story with barely any Dr. Who. I wish bloody RTD would stop doing that. I did like the bit at the end when the Doctor and the Master fought on the cliff, but then it was over before it had really started.

You didn't like Blink right? I really enjoyed that, that is my best episode of Season 3, the writing is just soo good, and the story is brilliant.

So yes overall I enjoyed it but it was definitely lacking compared to the genius that was series 2 finale, okay so I wasn't expecting it to come close to that but overall I was still left a little bit disappointed, just a little though.

Yeah this season, apart from the master really didn't excel where the previous 2 seasons did. So for season 4, who do you reckon should come? I want to see more on the time war or have some more backstory, or have some cause and effect with time travel like Blink

I can see the Christmas special will be another tosh episode. Both so far have been woeful, thrown together, with way to much stupid humour, while the first proper episode comes.

That did make me chuckle, so you know straight away that the titanic

Toge · Post by **Toge** » 01 Jul 2007, 21:09

dreadful anti-climax to end the show.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 01 Jul 2007, 21:21

Which Anti-climax do you mean?

I liked Blink but oh yeah that's not 2 but 3 stories with our Dr. Who

. Considering the Doctor was barely in it Blink was much better than it should've been. IMO easily the best of the series was that two parter set in 1900 England, that one was excellent. Last weeks was better than the finale, that's not right.

Above all I'd love to see the Time War (I suspect everyone would) but that will be tricky now unless they get Chris E back, other than that I want to see RTD utilizing all the old classic monsters much more, instead of inventing new ones. They did mention the Axons though, which was a nice tough.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 04 Jul 2007, 04:32

I saw the finale, pretty enjoyable. The Master would've been back eventually, regardless of whether it was next season or 10-20 years from now.

The toclafane twist was a good one, I saw that they were going to be humans from a mile away, just not the ones from the end of universe.

bradavon wrote:I can see the Christmas special will be another tosh episode. Both so far have been woeful, thrown together, with way to much stupid humour, while the first proper episode comes.

As crap as it was, the first Xmas episode did have some merit. It was our first chance to see David Tennant in action. Jettison the Catherine Tate one out of the airlock though. Hopefully they don't bring back the robot santas again.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Jul 2007, 18:44

You're not going to like this but bloody RTD is replacing Freema whose a great actress for god awful Catherine Tate for the first part of Season 4, Freema will be returning half way through (the Doctor will then have two assistants, as has happened before, sometimes three).

That's right she will be the Doctor's sidekick. It's all over the news here, confirmed apparently.

:shock:

There is already enough silly comedy in Doctor Who without more. Tate isn't even a good comedian, she's god awful.

The more I think about it the more RTD needs to go! Fair dues to him and that lady (I forget her name) for bringing the show back but they need to go now!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Jul 2007, 18:56

The BBC report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6267680.stm

The only good news being:

"Agyeman, 28, is to play Martha Jones in three episodes of spin-off show Torchwood, which producers have said will "expand" her character."

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 04 Jul 2007, 19:03

The Christmas special was crap, I realise Catherine Tate was supposed to be pissed/annoyed at the Dr. but she just annoyed me and wasnt funny

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Jul 2007, 19:09

And now imagine that spanned over 13 episodes :twisted:

:twisted:

More on Freema in Torchwood: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6260374.stm
Kylie in the next Chrismas special: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6262094.stm

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 05 Jul 2007, 05:37

NO NO NO. Catherine Tate, DO NOT WANT. GTFO RTD, go back to making Queer As Folk and your X-Files rip-off shows.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Jul 2007, 20:02

Happy then?

I tell you the stories better be bloody good to make up for it.

slasher13 · Post by **slasher13** » 09 Jul 2007, 07:04

Braddy boy, it looks like the Doctor Who classic dvd are being rereleased, they are called O-Rings, they are the same dvds are previously released but cheaper price. I saw some dvds in Virgin for 9 pounds, but must be cheaper online. Will check this..

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Nov 2007, 17:40

I've just heard on the news Billie is to return to Doctor Who next series. She'll definitely be in at least one episode but other than that it's not known.

Talk about overboard. The Doctor could have three assistants at one point. I've know they've done that in the past but it's a bit overkill. It's pretty obvious we'll have all three actually when Catherine Bloody Tate is signed on for the whole series and there's no way Martha and Rose won't be on the screen together.

I'm not surprised ITV relegated "Secret Diary Of A Call Girl" to a late ITV2 slot and it bombed. Billie is also ridiculously miscast too, that doesn't help.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 02 Dec 2007, 07:41

Catherine Tate is there for the whole series?! Oh fuck, with RTD gone too this will be the worst season thus far.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Dec 2007, 16:25

I'm afraid so

. Freema Agyeman and Billie Piper will appear for a few episodes, only 1 episode so far for Bille.

Most of the writing in Series 3 was tired and old. I can see this continuing on to Series 4, add Tate in and it's not looking good. Series 1 and 2 were of high calibre, it then went downhill. Strangely most new fans still love it. I heard no bad complains from the media etc...

with RTD gone too this will be the worst season thus far.

Where did you read RTD is gone? He was very clear he's not finished yet in the BBC Confidentials.

Personally I think that's great news. His writting was some of the worst in the previous series. The show has been saved by Steve Muffett and the like.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 02 Dec 2007, 16:48

bradavon wrote:
I'm not surprised ITV relegated "Secret Diary Of A Call Girl" to a late ITV2 slot and it bombed. Billie is also ridiculously miscast too, that doesn't help.

yeah,it bombed so much they've commissioned a 2nd series for next year

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Dec 2007, 17:42

Really? I'm really surprised to hear that. It had potential but Billie Pipe is so badly miscast. She's an aright actress but is just wrong for this.