John Rambo (Rambo 4) - Really damn violent! :D

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 23 May 2007, 21:37

Have you watched "Copland"?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 23 May 2007, 23:16

Oh yeah I forgot all about that. He's surprisingly very good in that. Okay so there is one exception to that rule

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 24 May 2007, 01:24

...and Rocky...and First Blood...

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 24 May 2007, 02:37

Rocky is good... up until the point when you compare it to a certain other film released that year.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 May 2007, 19:00

Very true. Taxi Driver so should've won over Rocky. Cool poster.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 24 May 2007, 19:10

Not sure whats better Rocky or Taxi Driver, both great films, both nothing alike in any way. Not something you can compare agaisnt each other.

None deserved an Oscar thats for sure, as the Oscars are pure 100% bile

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 May 2007, 21:23

I didn't think you were a De Niro fan? In fact saying he's a rubbish actor.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 24 May 2007, 21:52

On the whole I prefer ROCKY over TAXI DRIVER.

Yes, Taxi Driver is a haunting film, and DeNiro is amazing, but I'm not sure if it's dramatically better than Rocky, which makes you care about its characters and has a better defined point-of-view. Taxi Driver is like the drug-fuelled rantings of a mad man, a mad artistic genius, perhaps? It's depressing, unpleasent, and even though I've seen it a few times, I don't see me ever going back to it. The last time I felt drained, and not in a good way. Rocky is a classic rags to riches tale, and cliched though it may be, it's an inspiring, winning piece of cinema on its own terms.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 24 May 2007, 22:28

It may seem to go down the route of the low budget gritty personal film of the 70's (The greatest era of American filmmaking. If you think that they're self-indulgent then GTFO, you have no fucking taste in films period.), but to it's core Rocky is emotionally manipulative, sentimental tripe. I'd hate to imagine how Stallone's desired "writer/actor's cut" would've turned out if Rocky's deleted material had survived, it'd be a far worse film than Avidsen's TC.

Regardless of all this, I still like the film. But it ain't got nothing on Taxi Driver.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 24 May 2007, 23:23

bradavon wrote:I didn't think you were a De Niro fan? In fact saying he's a rubbish actor.

He has done some great films, Taxi Driver is easily his best

But he does some really shit films also, recently thats all he has made if you ask me. Comedies and childish horor crap seems to be his bag now. I dont want to see him a comedy ever myself, or another crap film

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 May 2007, 23:23

I'd probably agree the 70s gave us some of the best films ever, overall picking a decade. Then Star Wars and Jaws went and changed the way (American) films been made ever since, both great films but I do wonder how different the 80s may have been if they weren't made.

The 80s ran off on the back of Star Wars and execs realise the power of the Blockbuster, easily some classics in the 80s but it doesn't come close to the 70s for quality. Things went down a bit in the 90s.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 24 May 2007, 23:23

post at same time

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 May 2007, 23:48

The Good Shepherd aside which I've not seen so cannot comment he's not made a good film let alone a great one since Ronin almost 10 years ago. I really hope The Good Shepherd returns him to form, directing or acting just quality please.

It looks like he's signed on somehow to be in 36 the American remake of the recent French Crime thriller which I hear is up there with Infernal Affairs so fingers crossed this returns him properly to form.

Bullets and Babes the place where we all going completely off topic

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 May 2007, 00:57

EvaUnit02 wrote:It may seem to go down the route of the low budget gritty personal film of the 70's

Believe it or not... ROCKY fits into that mould. It was a low budget, gritty-looking drama about street people. It just wasn't seedy like TAXI DRIVER. The sequels changed that, but I guess you can't think of the original without associating them with the others.

Stallone's screenplay may seem trite, but I understood his character and what he was trying to say... TAXI DRIVER had enormous power but damned if I know what the point is? DeNiro's character not only alienates the other characters (as intended) but me as a viewer also. I don't necessarily need to like him, but need to understand him and why he does what he does. His motives don't come across. He just acts and Scorcese leaves you to figure it out yourself, but I think that's a cop out. Like getting the Mohawk and making a pretence about assassinating Albert Brooks. Why? Flame me, but I would've thrown this out and concentrated on his relationship with the two women (well woman and underage girl).

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 May 2007, 01:01

DeNiro has made one brilliant comedy and that's MIDNIGHT RUN.

There are great films from every era. The reason why the 70s is looked upon fondly isn't so much that every film was great but that mainstream filmmaking still had something to say and wasn't obsessed with commercialism. Spielberg and Lucas changed that (as much as I love Jaws and Indiana Jones). There should be room for both types of film. But then in the 80s we had Salvador and Platoon, etc, so like I said, every decade has important cinema to offer.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 25 May 2007, 01:26

bradavon wrote:The 80s ran off on the back of Star Wars and execs realise the power of the Blockbuster, easily some classics in the 80s but it doesn't come close to the 70s for quality. Things went down a bit in the 90s.

I wouldn't say things went down in the '90s; there was a resurgence after the '80s which matched the '70s. Goodfellas in 1990 and Pulp Fiction in '94 are two huge examples of films that changed the way people thought; the latter especially so - relatively independent movie, which made a huge amount of money and won plenty of awards; it was even shafted at the Oscars (as Taxi Driver was in its day by Rocky) by Forrest Fucking Gump. It has plenty of similarities (in terms of message) to Rocky, which is what Taxi Driver and Pulp Fiction lacked, in the Academy's eyes.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 25 May 2007, 01:29

Markgway wrote:DeNiro has made one brilliant comedy and that's MIDNIGHT RUN.

There are great films from every era. The reason why the 70s is looked upon fondly isn't so much that every film was great but that mainstream filmmaking still had something to say and wasn't obsessed with commercialism. Spielberg and Lucas changed that (as much as I love Jaws and Indiana Jones). There should be room for both types of film. But then in the 80s we had Salvador and Platoon, etc, so like I said, every decade has important cinema to offer.

Can't argue with Midnight Run being De Niro's best comedy.

As a random critique on the man, De Niro, for all his acting chops, can't laugh on camera. If you watch him laugh in any film, it's terrible. He seems to really struggle with it.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 25 May 2007, 01:33

Markgway wrote:Stallone's screenplay may seem trite, but I understood his character and what he was trying to say...What part of the film didn't feature him mumbling like stroke patient? TAXI DRIVER had enormous power but damned if I know what the point is? DeNiro's character not only alienates the other characters (as intended) but me as a viewer also. I don't necessarily need to like him, but need to understand him and why he does what he does. His motives don't come across. He just acts and Scorcese leaves you to figure it out yourself, but I think that's a cop out. Like getting the Mohawk and making a pretence about assassinating Albert Brooks. Why? Flame me, but I would've thrown this out and concentrated on his relationship with the two women (well woman and underage girl).

Taxi Driver was a character study, pure and simple. It illustrated a picture of an archetype that unfortunately does exist in society - that of an antisocial nut case who could snap at any time. When his attempts at trying to form social connections with others fail he retreats back into his paranoid views, immersing himself deeper than ever before.

A film doesn't have to a sympathetic character for the audience to identify with to be good.

But really Travis Bickle is a good guy in comparison to the calculated man with clear ambitions that DeNiro portrays in The King of Comedy. DeNiro's finest performance in any film.

BTW Brad please refrain from your typical asshattery in this thread, it is still on the topic of Stallone.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 25 May 2007, 02:24

I've seen all of Scorcese's feature films bar 3: Kundun, The Age of Innocence, and.... Taxi Driver!

I have known my fair share of guys who fit that archetype eva mentions though. Was friends with a Paranoid Schizophrenic with bordline personality disorder once, and that was certainly an unpredictable time! Some of the stories of the things he'd done in the past were interesting though!

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 May 2007, 03:00

EvaUnit02 wrote:Taxi Driver was a character study, pure and simple. It illustrated a picture of an archetype that unfortunately does exist in society - that of an antisocial nut case who could snap at any time. When his attempts at trying to form social connections with others fail he retreats back into his paranoid views, immersing himself deeper than ever before.

Yes, but what ARE those paranoid views? What are his thoughts and fears? We don't REALLY get to know this character. He remains a mystery - which some people may like, I don't.

A film doesn't have to a sympathetic character for the audience to identify with to be good.

That was my point, I didn;t have to like him, but understand him, and I didn't. All I knew is what he did, but not why or how he felt. And to me that's important. Rocky is by comparison a three-dimensional character. By the end of the movie we know exactly who he is and the journey he's taken.

But really Travis Bickle is a good guy in comparison to the calculated man with clear ambitions that DeNiro portrays in The King of Comedy.

I wouldn't go as far as to say good guy, but it's hard to argue with him killing a bunch of child-pimping scum. As a stalker and potential political assassin, that puts him in the villain camp. He's a mixed bag.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 25 May 2007, 08:05

Pulp Fucking Fiction?!

'nuff said...

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 25 May 2007, 08:59

gojensen wrote:Pulp Fucking Fiction?!

'nuff said...

My sentiments exactly. Pulp Fiction is utterly all style and no substance and aped bucket loads of ideas from other films. It isn't Oscar worthy material in the eyes of anyone but deluded Gen X/Y'ers who've been fooled by Tarrantino's dialogue and pop culture references. It is not even fit to breath the same air as Taxi Driver.

It is a highly entertaining movie? Yes. Is it an influential movie? Yes. Is it Oscar worthy? No.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 25 May 2007, 11:17

Apparently, the Academy (that well-known bunch of Gen X/Y'ers) were fooled by the dialogue and pop-culture references too, and they awarded it the Best Screenplay award. But what do they know; Titanic won a shitload of statuettes.

Debate all you want between which of Taxi Driver and Pulp Fiction is the better film (they're totally different styles and have totally different viewpoints, so good luck with that), but that's not the point I was making. My comparison of Taxi Driver and Pulp Fiction was not as films themselves, but that they both were the better films in their respective year and neither won the Best Picture award because of the message that they put out.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 25 May 2007, 15:26

EvaUnit02 wrote:It is a highly entertaining movie? Yes. Is it an influential movie? Yes. Is it Oscar worthy? No.

You fail! The Oscars are about rewarding film as entertainment first, art second. That's why shit like Titanic can win a bunch of the little gold fuckers.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 25 May 2007, 16:27

Was that why A Beautiful Mind won as well? Or is it just "films we dont like"

I wouldnt begrudge Return of the King's Oscar's either - though think it was a bit daft when the others parts won none, it was for the trilogy as a whole.
Gone With The Wind won ten, and deservedly so.