Buying decent headphones

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 10 May 2007, 16:15

I needed some decent headphones for use with my PC. I'm sick of my weaksauce Philips pair and I loathe earbuds, fucking tinny sounding things that never stay put in my ears. Ipod owners look like such douchebags with those white earbuds, it should be a law that they replace them with something more discrete.

You hear nothing but good things bout Sennheiser. But why in fucks name aren't there any volume control on the budget models? I so would've bought the HD202 for $70NZD if it had volume control. Going into the Windows Master Volume is so bloody annoying, hardware-based volume control is a necessity for me.

The cheapest cans with volume control were the HD435 for $124NZD so I ordered those. They're open but you can't have it all, other people can go to hell if they're annoyed by the pish pish sound. Detachable cable, that's a nice bonus.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 10 May 2007, 17:10

Sennhesier are my favourite headphone manufacturers, although I have never used any of those low-end ones. Only 580's, 600's and 650's which I currently have, so comfortable and sound lovely.
In-line volume controls affect sound quality, so does Windows volume if it's below 100%. Always better to use the volume control on your hardware.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 10 May 2007, 17:31

Lourdes wrote:In-line volume controls affect sound quality, so does Windows volume if it's below 100%. Always better to use the volume control on your hardware.

Options are limited for PCs, yeah? Unless you a have PCI sound card with a Bay Drive expansion or something. I'm not using it as a HTPC either, so it wouldn't be hooked up to a receiver.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 10 May 2007, 17:57

Amplifiers, even a tiny little cmoy benefits almost any setup.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 10 May 2007, 18:00

Lourdes wrote:Amplifiers, even a tiny little cmoy benefits almost any setup.

Got any example links for reasonably priced low-mid-range ones?

Should I bother with anything better than onboard sound? My Realtek ALC883 is pretty decent. I'm in two minds bout getting a X-fi Extrememusic.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 May 2007, 18:22

so does Windows volume if it's below 100%

How?

In-line volume controls affect sound quality

It's very useful though when you're on the move. IMO worrying at this level is akin to entering Geeville

I second Sennhesier. I use a pair of Sennhesier in-the-ear jobs, the bass increase from the stock earphones that came with my MP3 Player really surprised me. My Sennhesier in-the-ear jobs have a volume control. I presume you're at your PC? So how hard is it to use the Windows volume? I use the one on my keyboard most of the time.

Personally I dislike the big ass headphones, you look like a right knob walking around town wearing them, much like people who keep their Bluetooth headset on when they're not on the ruddy phone or people who put sunglasses on their head (since when did your scalp need sunglasses?).

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 10 May 2007, 18:23

I really don't know much about low-end amps beyond a few listens. Have a look at Head-Fi.org, there's always a alot of talk about cheap ones for portable use which would suit you. If you can solder it's easy enough to build your own as well.
The Xtreme Music is the base card correct, not the one which isn't an actual X-fi? The X-fi has decent enough DAC's and if you play games it's excellent because it takes away load and gives you the EAX effects. Alternatively the Chaintech AV710 which is a really cheap card withough fancy features but it does have a nice a Wolfson DAC.

Personally I prefer spending money on better headphones before doing any upgrades but you will get a benefit from either and there are plenty of people using phones such as the 435's with amps and the like. RealkTek stuff picks up too much intererence and doesn't sound too good to begin with. And an amp adds the power the outputs on soundcards lack.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 10 May 2007, 19:09

Wanna try 5.1 USB headphones ?
Great sound + volume and bass control + microphone.

http://www.trust.com/products/product.aspx?artnr=14804

40-ish euros.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 10 May 2007, 19:37

bradavon wrote:
so does Windows volume if it's below 100%
How?

Windows has a component called kmixer, kernel audio mixer. It likes to fuck with your audio, if the volume is maxed it deosn't do anything relating to volume. Ideally you should be using ASIO or kernelstreaming output which bypasses kmixer entirely but not everything supports this.

On the go I use in-ears, Shure e3c.

tom2681 wrote:Wanna try 5.1 USB headphones ?
Great sound + volume and bass control + microphone.

http://www.trust.com/products/product.aspx?artnr=14804

40-ish euros.

Those are terrible, just terrible. Same goes for every other cheap surround headphone, surround effect isn't bad but the sound and build quality is just horrendous. USB is another negative.
Although if one wanted a cheap set of surround for for novelty the Zalman offering is the better of the half dozen I've heard. But this is only relvative.

There are expensive surround cans from Sony, JVC and Panasonic which aren't too bad but SQ still isn't too good. Alternatively most applications let you have some sort of fake surround for headphones using technolgoies such as Dolby Headphone. There are also hardware adaptors to do the same but a bit better. Not as good as multiple drivers but at least you still have the great SQ of your stereo phones.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 May 2007, 20:51

Does 5.1 in headphones really work? Surely you'd have a major headache really quickly.

It likes to fuck with your audio, if the volume is maxed it deosn't do anything relating to volume.

You said if it's "below" 100% though, which would mean it's not maxed.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 10 May 2007, 20:59

Lourdes wrote:Those are terrible, just terrible

No they're not.
I own them.

Better than the Sennheiser 202 and the Beyer DT131 I used to own.

@Brad:
5.1 in headphones is more like "extended stereo".
It's kinda hard to tell the difference between the front left speaker and the left surround speaker.

I spend 8 hours a day with these headphones on my ears. No headaches yet.

Lourdes wrote:USB is another negative.

Eh ? Why ?
You don't even need a soundcard or an integrated mohterboard... sound chipset... thingie.
The headphones themselves act as a USB soundcard. It's awesome.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 May 2007, 22:20

I presume it sounds better than Stereo for movies?

Movies aside I'd say a set of decent Stereo headphones is better, music is almost always in Stereo.

I spend 8 hours a day with these headphones on my ears.

Why? Can't you just listen to music on speakers quietly.

Personally I'd rather use the 3.5mm port and my sound card. That's what it's there for. Keep a USB port free. It just seems a bit silly to use USB when you have a perfectly good sound card. All PC/laptops have a built in sound card nowadays.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 11 May 2007, 00:45

Lourdes wrote:The Xtreme Music is the base card correct, not the one which isn't an actual X-fi?

Incorrect. The Xtreme Audio is the fake cheap X-fi, it's exactly the same as SB Live 24-bit and Audigy Value. Xtrememusic and Xtremegamer are the low-end real X-fis. I would consider Auzentech cards but they aren't sold in NZ AFAIK.

braddy wrote: I presume you're at your PC? So how hard is it to use the Windows volume? I use the one on my keyboard most of the time.

Try playing a full screen game and imagine having to alt+tab in and out everytime you want adjust the volume. I don't have a multimedia keyboard either, just the original MS Natural (I'm considering getting a MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, just because I'm used to using the MS Natural layout.). I'm constantly adjusting the volume while wearing headphones, some songs are louder than others and I like to have a decent balance between a satisfactory audible volume and going deaf.

Personally I prefer just using speakers but I can't exactly be playing music even softly at 2am in a full house, the walls are paper thin. I like to play Yoko Kanno or Ennio Morricone OSTs in an endless loop while studying.

Personally I dislike the big ass headphones, you look like a right knob walking around town wearing them, much like people who keep their Bluetooth headset on when they're not on the ruddy phone or people who put sunglasses on their head (since when did your scalp need sunglasses?).

Honestly who gives a fuck? There's more important things in life to worry about than what others think of your fashion sense FFS. Not everyone is a Metrosexual like you clearly are

.

Personally I'd rather use the 3.5mm port and my sound card. That's what it's there for. Keep a USB port free. It just seems a bit silly to use USB when you have a perfectly good sound card. All PC/laptops have a built in sound card nowadays.

I agree. Also you don't need to worry about driver issues ever and can use the same cans with your stereo or walkman.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 11 May 2007, 01:37

Ah Games got you. I forgot about those.

That reminds me of the days my Dad would go mad when I even tried to put any 5.1 films on, even quietly. I wait until he's out now. I also think they're ugly and pointless irrespective of how they look to the outside world.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 11 May 2007, 03:33

Ahhh, now these look like the ideal earbuds for me.

Sennheiser OMX50 Street.

Those lobe bracket thingies so that they won't fall out and in-line volume control. Discretely coloured.

I'll get those when I either A. Get a portable MP3 player or B. a PSP. I'm leaning towards the PSP since it can playback MP3s, ripped movies, play PSP games and emulated PS1 games. It might not have a game library as large as DS (or the same good game to shit ratio), but it can do the aforementioned other perks. (Castlevania: Dracula X Chronicles is looking awesome.)

Memory Stick Duos should cost peanut theses days, right?

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 11 May 2007, 09:20

EvaUnit2 wrote:Memory Stick Duos should cost peanut theses days, right?

Nope. Only Sony uses MS. Thusly they are expensive. There are various "adapters" out there that will allow you to use SD, CF etc (they're about 1/4-1/3 the price of Duos) but it won't look as good (either a plastic addon, meaning bigger PSP) or something sticking out and glued to the back... :-/ Only gripe I have with the system really. (Oh and stay away from the cheap DUOs they are slow as hell!)

EvaUnit2 wrote:MS Natural Ergonomic 4000

Excellent keyboard, I have two and this is the best natural/comfort keyboard I've used the past 4-5 years. One thing to try if/when you get it is to put on the raiser in front which elevates the keyboard front by 3-4 cm. Looks odd, feels weird to begin with but ultimately (at least for my typing style) relieves wrist and shoulder stress by allowing a more comfortable resting angle of my hands...

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 11 May 2007, 16:11

Hey our lady of Lourdes, what about this headphone amp? Zalman ZM-RSA.

I could only find the one review:-
http://web.archive.org/web/200502070737 ... view/316/2
(Also found this one, but it tells you fuck all.)

Also the review says that the Zalman 5.1 headphones are crap.

Given that the ZM-RSA amplifier is intended to be used in combination with the Theatre - 6 headphones it is disappointing to see that neither any cross feed or any tonal correction circuitry to fix the Theatre 6's sound problems is incorporated. On the other hand, close internal inspection revealed that the ZM-RSA is actually two independent six channel amplifiers sharing only a supply and set of inputs. Also each of the channels are identical with no filtering for sub woofer etc. The up side to this is that the unit can be used to power up to six pairs of stereo headphones or be used as an in-line six channel volume control. For example, connect the ZM-RSA amplifier to the soundcard, plug in your headphones to output 1 and then connect the speaker cables that would normally connect to the soundcard into output 2. Now you can have headphones and/or loudspeakers just by turning a volume control.

Whilst lacking the sonic detail and dynamics of dedicated stereo only head amps spiralling exponentially upwards of £150+, I think anyone not wishing to spend that kind of money on a head amp will be more than pleased with the excellent quality Zalman ZM-RSA Dual Output 5.1 Channel Headphone Amplifier. Couple it with Zalmans own Theatre 6 surround headphones and FPS games become more intimate despite the headphones short comings.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 11 May 2007, 18:13

bradavon wrote:You said if it's "below" 100% though, which would mean it's not maxed.

What are you on about? That's what I said, if the volume is below 100% kmixer affects quality.

tom2681 wrote:
Lourdes wrote:Those are terrible, just terrible
No they're not.
I own them.

Better than the Sennheiser 202 and the Beyer DT131 I used to own.
Eh ? Why ?
You don't even need a soundcard or an integrated mohterboard... sound chipset... thingie.
The headphones themselves act as a USB soundcard. It's awesome.

I've heard them, they sound painful and the DT131's are definitely better. It's a case of mathematics, €40 for 6 drivers and a USB DSP. USB is a neagtive because the 'hardware' is worse then the lowest end onboard sound codecs.

EvaUnit02 wrote:Incorrect. The Xtreme Audio is the fake cheap X-fi, it's exactly the same as SB Live 24-bit and Audigy Value. Xtrememusic and Xtremegamer are the low-end real X-fis. I would consider Auzentech cards but they aren't sold in NZ AFAIK.

Eh? That's what I said. I have an X-Fi, the Fatality FPS, I pretty much only use it for bitperfect digital output and the Ultra sound setting in BF2.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 11 May 2007, 18:15

That amp is for the Zalman cans and yes they are rubbish but still relatively better than the other cheap ones. Like I said, go to Head-fi.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 12 May 2007, 04:37

Lourdes wrote:Like I said, go to Head-fi.

I looked on Head-fi.com, nothing within my price range. Plus I'd need one which accepts DC power, solely battery-powered ones like this one would be highly impractical for exclusive desktop use. The cheapest one I could find that accepts DC power is this one, but for ~$175nzd no thanks.

The Zalman amp is only ~$110NZD. Did you read the quoted paragraph from that review?

On the other hand, close internal inspection revealed that the ZM-RSA is actually two independent six channel amplifiers sharing only a supply and set of inputs. Also each of the channels are identical with no filtering for sub woofer etc. The up side to this is that the unit can be used to power up to six pairs of stereo headphones or be used as an in-line six channel volume control. For example, connect the ZM-RSA amplifier to the soundcard, plug in your headphones to output 1 and then connect the speaker cables that would normally connect to the soundcard into output 2. Now you can have headphones and/or loudspeakers just by turning a volume control.

Eh? That's what I said. I have an X-Fi, the Fatality FPS, I pretty much only use it for bitperfect digital output and the Ultra sound setting in BF2.

And so you did, sorry. I see no point in the high-end X-fis, fuck all games use the X-RAM. Only BF2, BF2142 and Doom 3 engine games. There's a good chance that I'll buy a Xtremegamer next week, all the stock of the Xtrememusic in this country are gone, the card is OOP.

I trust you've heard of Auzentech cards? Audiophile level HTPC PCI cards with high quality DACs. They've got a new card in the works:- X-fi Prelude, sounds like a hybrid of a X-Meridian and a X-fi Fatal1ty.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 12 May 2007, 20:14

http://www.head-fi.org - It's a forum not a shop and there are definitely a great many amps under discussion that are a lot cheaper than that Zalman thing. I wouldn't amp my worst enemys earplugs with that thing. Besides, you can get a PA2V2 for less than that and I don't doubt there are better amps than that around now.

BF2 is reason enough for X-RAM. And soon Quake Wars as well. But otherwise I don't see the point in expensive soundcards. External DAC's are a lot better than paying extra for better DAC's on a card.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 13 May 2007, 05:32

Cancelled my order for the Sennheiser HD435. getting this instead:-
Audio-Technica ATH-A500. They reportedly blow away the Sennheiser HD555.

I'm in two minds bout getting this as well:-
Audio-Technica AT-HA2 Headphone Amp. I think I'll get a X-fi first.

EDIT: Fuck the AT-HA2. Thanks for letting me know about the PA2V2 - it sounds very good, I think I'll order that when I have the cash.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 15 May 2007, 04:21

Looks like I'm not getting any headphones this month. Went to return the Sennheiser cans to the shop and instead of getting my credit card refunded I used it as store credit and chipped in to buy a monitor instead.

Samsung SyncMaster 226BW. I know about it having an inferior 6bit TN Panel and I don't care, the opportunity to buy a monitor of such a high spec wouldn't have come along for me again anytime soon. 22 inches, 1680*1050 resolution, 2ms response time, DVI-D and VGA, HDCP compliance - total win. I now have a stop gap for viewing HD discs and playing 360 games for until I get a proper HDTV.

I did order the X-fi Xtremegamer as planned though.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 May 2007, 18:57

Quick question, kind of:

1. Would a set of USB speakers (presuming they exist) give better sound quality than your average laptop speakers?
2. Is USB power enough to power them?
3. Would they drain the battery really quickly?

It would be nice to have some kind of better sound quality from my laptop without having to plug speakers in, if not I'll go the headphone route.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 15 May 2007, 23:30

1. Yes, USB speakers exist. Quality depends on the speakers themselves; tinny drivers, tinny sound. But, average laptop speakers would probably sound worse. Sony, Apple and Toshiba (the latter of whom use Harman/Kardon speakers) have pretty decent speakers in 'em, so generally, you don't see an improvement with those brands.
2. If a company is going to bother with USB speakers, then they'd damn sure make 'em work off USB (and therefore the laptop) power source.
3. USB usage lowers the battery life in any capacity. Seeing as how most laptops get about 1.5 hours battery life under normal usage, I would say 'quickly' is a definite.

Best option is the headphone method. I have used a set of Sony MDR-EX71 for years with my Sony player and now with my iPod and they are unbeatable at the sub-£50 level. I have one other set (MDR-V50) which I've had ages, which I use just for when I'm doing audio/video editing - big cans, which aren't practical for out and about. Though the ear cushions are really comfy.