Let's Discuss HD Combo Players!

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 15 Apr 2007, 16:51

Blu Ray won, thee nd. The PS3 say to that. In time its obvious, come back in a year and see how they have done.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 15 Apr 2007, 17:39

The PS3 did that, did it? I could have sworn the PS3 wasn't even selling well, never mind few people actually being interested in its Blu-Ray functions.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 15 Apr 2007, 18:02

The PS3 _is_ selling well. Only thing is, Sony managed to saturate enough of the market to keep machines in the stores. Does that mean it's a flop? Compared to Nintendos' hugely sucessful Wii launch - perhaps. But as far as I remember reading, compared to the Xbox360 - the PS3 has had better market penetration since it's launch than the Xbox 360 had in the same amount of time.

The first week up here, some stores were sold out, some had a few left. The 2 weeks after the situation was somewhat the same - you could find it if you wanted to, but not necessarily at the first store.

A bigger issue is the fact that there are two competing players. Lots of folks have HD and "HD-Ready" displays in Norway by now - but what format to choose? Not to mention that even though HD-DVD was launched "ages" before BRD, players started showing up mere weeks before the PS3 launch - and there was like 4 movies to choose from. Two weeks after the PS3 launch and there are more BRD movies to select from than HD-DVD discs - and some retailers have actually already dropped HD-DVD (not sure if they've also dropped BRD though - something about it being expensive and not moving...) ... Given that they charged US$60 for a HD disc may have something to do with that (the cheapest stores had them at US$40-50...) (dollars aren't probably right to indicate prices as the dollar is ridicilously cheap over here right now...)

As for combo-players and supporting both players, I oppose that simply because if you do support both, the war will only last longer or even drag-out and we end up with the exact same situation as we did with SACD/DVDA... What better way to tell Universal to go BluRay than to not buy their movies.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 15 Apr 2007, 18:16

bradavon wrote:
gojensen wrote:Warner are working on re-releases of the earliest HD-DVD-only titles, they just needed to wait for authoring and playback software to catch up to the final standards.
Any source link? What all HD-DVD only titles?

I read it over at The Digital Bits;

TheDigitalBits wrote: As Warner notes in their press release, Blu-ray Disc versions of both of these sets will be released later in 2007. We've done a little digging, and as you might expect, the delay in getting Blu-ray Disc versions out at the same time is related to the lack of full implementation of BD-Java in Blu-ray Disc authoring software and player hardware - implementation that's needed to do the same kinds of In-Movie Experience features in Blu-ray that can be done in HD-DVD. (...) And Warner wants the extras on their titles to be the same on both formats whenever possible. So for those of you wondering why The Matrix isn't announced yet for Blu-ray, or why Batman Begins or V for Vendetta aren't for that matter, that's the reason.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa134.html

They are now playing catch-up it seems where time permits...

Or maybe just waiting for their THD crap (I don't like flippers - and they're sure to squeeze more money out of us for it...) to be ready...

Another thing I don't like is the HD-DVD/DVD combos, for one it's again a flipper... and secondly I believe it artificially inflates HD-DVD sales... well it probably won't matter much seeing as Toshy includes the 5-free DVD's with each player in their sale stats

I think we'd better look at say Amazon and figure it out orselves, but for HD-DVD/DVD combos we never know why the buyée bought it - was it for the DVD? The HD? Or maybe both?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Apr 2007, 21:22

I bet we'll only ever see THD in America, it's the sort of format like DualDisc that thankfully we won't see in Europe. BD Java sure is taking it's time. It's long overdue.

Very few HD-DVD Combos are sold for the DVD side or at least not as the main reason. I own two and the fact they're combos is why I bought them but you're right they're bloody well expensive.

What better way to tell Universal to go BluRay than to not buy their movies.

In the long run agreed but not until someone else does it first

and one format really starts to disappear. It's all still conjecture.

I don't think we'll have another SACD/DVD-A as there are already far more HD discs than SACDs and DVD-As put together. SACD AFAIK has only ever been supported by Sony.

HD-DVD and BD launched at the same time.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 16 Apr 2007, 06:36

gojensen wrote:The PS3 _is_ selling well. Only thing is, Sony managed to saturate enough of the market to keep machines in the stores. Does that mean it's a flop? Compared to Nintendos' hugely sucessful Wii launch - perhaps. But as far as I remember reading, compared to the Xbox360 - the PS3 has had better market penetration since it's launch than the Xbox 360 had in the same amount of time.

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/723/ ... biakm9.jpg

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Apr 2007, 19:44

romerojpg wrote:Blu Ray won, thee nd. The PS3 say to that. In time its obvious, come back in a year and see how they have done.

Yeah right:

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/ ... tion4.html

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 16 Apr 2007, 20:16

and?

You obviously have seen the full industry figures latley, it will take a LOT more than the matrix to save it, Blu Ray has won.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Apr 2007, 20:41

I was goading you

but seriously many people want The Matrix in HD and will rush out to buy it. A BD version isn't for months yet.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 16 Apr 2007, 21:03

Romero wrote:Blu Ray has won.

Why do you keep saying that ?

Sure Blu-Ray disc sales are higher than HD-DVD sales for the moment:
Do you really expect the guy who's just spent 700 quid on a BD player to just buy a couple of discs ?

Sure the PS3 is selling well:
But how many PS3 owners are interested in the BD aspect of it ? Not many.

I think that HD-DVD still has the edge.
Maybe Blu-Ray will survive (I doubt it) but HD-DVD can't lose:
It's cheaper (many independent studios will prefer HD to BD for that reason) and it's got Microsoft behind it.
I don't see Microsoft losing anything anytime soon.

Either HD-DVD will win or both will survive.

IMHO.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 16 Apr 2007, 22:29

Its just the way its going, more people are turning to the dark side of Blu Ray and they are selling more dvds. But its still so many years away from being won its pointless talking baout it even

I just want HD dvds now! to hell with all the silly companies!

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 17 Apr 2007, 09:13

tom2681 wrote:But how many PS3 owners are interested in the BD aspect of it ? Not many.

Everyone I know did... with the lacklustre game selection out for the box still, they have to use it for something besides Folding@Home.

tom2681 wrote:I think that HD-DVD still has the edge.

Why? Because it has less disk space than BRD? Apart from that they can use the same codecs, and the only other difference is really HDi vs BD-Java. Now would you like your Micrsoft-soup or your Java-Sun-soup today, sir?

tom2681 wrote:Maybe Blu-Ray will survive (I doubt it) but HD-DVD can't lose:
It's cheaper (many independent studios will prefer HD to BD for that reason) and it's got Microsoft behind it.
I don't see Microsoft losing anything anytime soon.

You mean like they "lost" their OWN VC-1 codec? MS went out and claimed they had made a wonderfull codec that was so much better than everything else and was so much cheaper (i.e. free) ... in the end though it costs the same as MPEG4/AVC - and here's the real kicker... MS owns less of the patents than say Sony do! For MS' own codec!

MS will actually end up paying alot to use this codec... and for disc producers it's a toss up as to which to use now, they both have strenghts and weaknesses... and they cost about the same. (They're both licensed through the MPEG-LA).

And as I said earlier... Sony can't afford to lose the next-gen disc race either - and MS isn't really into it; they don't WANT discs. Which leaves Toshiba.

Thing is, one has to give up. It's not really about winning or losing, because if one doesn't give up they'll both lose.

So far I'd say BRD has the edge though, simply because more manufacturers are producing BluRay, while HDD has Toshiba so far (and partly the LG drive which they won't be allowed to stamp as a HD-DVD drive).

Come autumn Warner will make it even more terrible/confusing for the market with their THD BluRay/HDD combo discs at a premium. They claim to do it for the consumer, I say they do it for their own good. Producing and supporting one format will always be cheaper than two, and specifically cheaper than supporting a combo disc like THD.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 17 Apr 2007, 12:19

Fair enough. May the best disc win.

One thing, though:

Tom- I think that HD-DVD still has the edge.
Gojensen- Why? Because it has less disk space than BRD? Apart from that they can use the same codecs, and the only other difference is really HDi vs BD-Java

Lemme expand on that, then.

- First of all: the name. Joe Public knows what an HD-DVD is. What a Blu-Ray disc is, he doesn't know (and he doesn't care). He just wants HD.

- Blu-Ray was originally supposed to come in protective cartridges because the data is recorded 0.1mm below the surface of the disc. They have then decided to drop it and use a 0.1mm thick protective coating instead. That makes Blu-Ray discs extremely fragile.

- Blu-Ray specs aren't even finalized yet. They are still adding features as we speak (100gb discs, BD-Live, picture-in-picture). Needless to say these features won't be usable on the first generation of players.
HD-DVD on the other hand seems to be more stable.

Note: I don't hate Blu-Ray. In fact, I'll probably buy a hybrid player next Christmas. I just think it's got several critical flaws.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 17 Apr 2007, 18:18

I am still waiting for Hologram dvds

stuff theHD formats I want Hologram dvds!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 18 Apr 2007, 22:23

Both will survive, the Samsung combo will be mine

IMO.

tom2681 wrote:Why do you keep saying that ?

Because Romero's memory is as advanced as a goldfish.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 19 Apr 2007, 13:54

Actually BluRay discs aren't fragile at all because they have an extra protective coating on the disc which is optional on HD-DVD. Tests have shown the discs to be much more tolerant than regular DVDs. And as far as I know, the layer breaks for a 100gb is standardized and should work on most current BRD players when it comes out. True, not every current BD player will support BD-live. PIP has been done long ago, the reason it wasn't used was because authoring software wasn't ready at the launch - players supported it (though some need a FW upgrade).

Thing is though - not many is willing to pay $1000 for a player. Here I see a clear marked advantage for HD-DVD. But salenumbers clearly indicate that Joe Public won't jump on the ngDVD format yet. "The War" is to blame for that. Joe knows about BluRay, so he won't jump on HD simply because it says HD-DVD. (IMO).

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 19 Apr 2007, 14:51

$599 USD can either buy you a PS3 or a Samsung combo drive.

So HD+BD playback vs. BD playback only and games where you participate in ACTUAL BATTLES from JAPANESE HISTORY, such as the one where they fought GIANT ENEMY CRABS with special tactics like ATTACKING THE WEAK POINT FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE and REAL-TIME WEAPON CHANGE.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 19 Apr 2007, 15:06

No question at all. Riiiiiiiiiidge Racer!. It's been linked before, but it's still funny.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 20 Apr 2007, 08:29

Hell yeah, bring on them CRABS!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 Apr 2007, 23:26

EvaUnit02 wrote:$599 USD can either buy you a PS3 or a Samsung combo drive.

Where did you find that price? That's well juicy for the Samsung.

I've decided to import one from the States so it's Region A and will play America, Hong Kong, Korean and Japanese discs but not UK ones

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 21 Apr 2007, 03:09

bradavon wrote:
EvaUnit02 wrote:$599 USD can either buy you a PS3 or a Samsung combo drive.
Where did you find that price? That's well juicy for the Samsung.

From the link you originally posted, tardis.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 21 Apr 2007, 16:43

Read it again, that's not what it says. Now whose the fool

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 21 Apr 2007, 16:52

bradavon wrote:
EvaUnit02 wrote:$599 USD can either buy you a PS3 or a Samsung combo drive.
Where did you find that price? That's well juicy for the Samsung.

I've decided to import one from the States so it's Region A and will play America, Hong Kong, Korean and Japanese discs but not UK ones

Region a! thats bollocks! I thoight they were sticking with Region 1 and 2 etc.. if they changed that thats bollocks! I was gonna get a UK machine so I could play Ausie, europe and Japanese dvds, if they have changed region stuf thats that out the window.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 22 Apr 2007, 14:24

Someone's been sleeping in class?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Region_codes

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 22 Apr 2007, 14:37

Nope I knew there were reginal coding, but I assumed they were the same as we always had. Its bollocks.