The Last of the Mohicans: Theatrical Cut vs. Director's Cut

[Markgway]

Loads of back catalogues titles @ $6.98 each (Less if you have a Fidelity Card). Brilliant value.

Out of interest: How does the DC of Mohicans compare to the TC which I have from Warner UK? I've read that some footage was removed as well as added and the result isn't definative. I like the film as is BTW.

P.S. Grim: Buy 'Dressed to Kill' already for fuck's sake!!

[bradavon]

Out of interest: How does the DC of Mohicans compare to the TC which I have from Warner UK? I've read that some footage was removed as well as added and the result isn't definative. I like the film as is BTW.

I saw the DC recently and IMO there isn't much difference. Mann took about the same out as he put back in and the changes are subtle.

The DC makes "Maj. Duncan Heyward" a little more 3D. The biggest change is the removal of the Clannad music near the end. IMO though it works either way just as well.

Which is the crux both cuts work just fine. I'm sticking with the DC as it's the DC, which I'd think is important to you? This is no MC (Marketing Cut). Which surely makes it definitive? Even if there are still no bloody extras but a lovely DTS track helps.

It's been a while since I saw the TC but really can't fault the DC anyway. I'll have to check out some of the key scenes on my TC video. I thought I wouldn't like the DC after hearing the bad press but it works just fine.

Anyway let Michael Mann tell you what he changed and why (in the cuts section):

http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=1393

IMDB cuts list: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/alternateversions

[Markgway]

Thanks for the links Brad.

Mann obviously has his reasons... but after reading the comments on the IMDB about the Director's Edition I consider myself lucky I own the Theatrical Cut.

Here's a link:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/maindetails

There are a couple of threads relating to the Extended version.

P.S. I thought the Clannad music worked rather well.

[bradavon]

Personally as I said before I think both work the DC is only £4.50 before discount Mark I suggest you give it ago. Also remember people don't like change so if they loved a film one way there immediate reaction is to dismiss another cut, that doesn't mean it's inferior.

I'm surprised you're dismissing the DC so easily. I thought the Director's vision was of uttermost importance to you?

I've been reading the IMDB list and most of the changes are very minor and would work either way. I watched the end of the film last night on my TC video:

* The Clannad sequence does work well and probably better in the TC. I can see why Mann removed it and replaced it with some standard Orchestra music but I can't help feeling some of the emotion is lost with it's absence. Having said that the Clannad music is hardly realistic of music played during that era in America.

* The epilogue is much more powerful in the DC. It's extended and really sums up what the essence of the film is for me. Chingachgook (Hawkeye's/Daniel Day-Lewis's step father) sums up the changing land he lives in and how the white people will end up living and working in this country. This is what Mann says about it and I completely agree:

"Chingachgook's [Russell Means] soliloquy at the end of the film [in which he eulogizes the end of a way of life for his people and the frontier] was removed, and that was a mistake. I wanted that back."

I also watched part of the assault on the fort where Mann says:

"The theatrical cut intercuts both Hawkeye's group trying to get to the fort and the assault by the French. This doesn't. It's longer and larger."

It works better in the DC as it concentrates on Hawkeye's group and doesn't intercut back and forth to the French. So put simply I'm now thinking the DC has the edge (maybe) the epilogue is truly better!

p.s - Could you provide links to talk of the DC on IMDB? I've looked through the first few pages and can't see any reference to it.

[romerojpg]

I didnt notice any changes at all in any way, and just becasue some director says he prefers this vision means nothing at all, it may be worse. I want the version that I think is best, not the version they think is best. Mann is an oddball the way he cuts down his films for alternate versions.

[Markgway]

I'm surprised you're dismissing the DC so easily. I thought the Director's vision was of uttermost importance to you?

Second only to my own enjoyment. But some directors have a habit or arseing about with their films for the sake of it. From the sounds of it: Mann is one of them. Having read the additions/deletions list it doesn't sound like any real improvements have been made. You're right about fans possibly overreacting to changes, but the overwhelming aversion to the DC can't be ignored. I like the TC and see no reason to switch. Maybe if a new DVD with BOTH versions comes out I'll think about it.

[Markgway]

Brad... here's some links that may interest you:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/board/nest/15424480

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/boa ... d/17453987

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/boa ... d/16095938

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/boa ... d/15851730

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/boa ... d/15424765

[romerojpg]

The thing is Mann does it with a few films, changes for no real reasons, look at Manhunter! most pointless dir cut ever! he just seems to like to edit his films later down the line, even if peple loved them scenes he cuts.

[bradavon]

I didnt notice any changes at all in any way, and just becasue some director says he prefers this vision means nothing at all, it may be worse.

I agree but like to give alternate cuts a go. Most of the time IMO they are superior!

Having read the additions/deletions list it doesn't sound like any real improvements have been made.

Doh! and there was me hoping my comments my sway you. Seriously I take it you mean the one on IMDB? That's hardly thorough.

The extended epilogue is barely mentioned for one which really helps the film. Mann hasn't changed all his films, there is no Heat: DC but I guess he does change his mind quite often.

Personally I prefer that as it gives me choice. I can then decide which I prefer and keep the best one. Like I did with TLOTM and Musa for that matter. Particularly controversial I know but at least I gave the shorter (IMO superior) cut a go.

Brad... here's some links that may interest you:

Thanks. I was looking through the comments not board.

I mostly disagree with this poster:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/boa ... d/15851730

"1. Cora's lines in the water fall scene are cut to shreds and the scene loses all of the wonderful rhythm it posessed before. "

Huh it's actually now longer!

"3. The money shot of Chingachgook's weapon going through Magua is replaced with a dumb slow-mo type shot of him doubling over in pain. "

This is really stretching it. The two cuts are 99% the same.

"4. The beautiful song over "the chase" is gone and replaced with a generic score reprise. "

As said before I agree with this one. It would've helped if the new score was louder, it's now very quiet.

"5. The "added" stuff adds nothing. Why would I want to see more between the two European Captains? That scene was great already. More between Magua and the French General? Who cares? And anybody else think Chingachgook's final "extended" speech comes off as too on-the-nose? I'm sorry, less is more. "

Clear the person who wrote this wasn't interested in the DC before they even started. As they dismisses some very good scenes here with no real reason why.

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Taken from this link:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/boa ... 0#15592430

"They are the Red Hat Man during the Elk Run, The Bus at the Fort Surrender, Blue and Black Caps as the English march away from the fort, Gray Hair at the Cliff as the Huron walk away from Uncas' death, and The Flapping Rock as Nathaniel sees Uncas fall."

I can't say I've ever noticed these. It amazes me some people ever actually enjoy watching films.

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It's half of one and six a dozen of the other. It's worth mentioning most of the cuts are minor such as a line here or a line there but the added footage mostly adds something to the film.

The extended epilogue is superior but the Clannad song being cut was a mistake. Okay I've said enough and am repeating myself

[romerojpg]

Personally I thought the new DTS track on the Dir Cut was shit, total and utter crap I was straining to hear the voices it was soo badly made! pants and a total waste of sound. Love the film, but the sound was dire.

[bradavon]

What did you think of the DD5.1? I thought the DTS was better personally, for the usual reasons.

[romerojpg]

Well I never really bothered with the DD either as if theDTS was soo flat, then I assumed the DD would be just the same it just didnt sound nice to me for what I expected. Maybe I love the sound track soo much I wanted more than I got.

[bradavon]

LOL you are so funny. You don't like one soundtrack but don't bother trying another.

That's like saying you hate remixed 5.1 soundtracks with new foley effects but don't bother to sample the mono alternative . Okay it's not exactly the same!