Help selecting computer

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Jan 2007, 10:03

And what about the cases and PSU I linked to? Think they are too much or are they about right?

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Jan 2007, 11:22

Damn I might need to go Intel. Everyone's saying that Intel are better than AMDS atm.... Need to reanalyise my quote.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 13 Jan 2007, 11:35

Bisc wrote:Everyone's saying that Intel are better than AMDS

Everyone ?

OK, then. Time to upgrade my signature:
Tom2681 - I love the CPUs you hate.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Jan 2007, 11:44

Yeah - looking at the benchmark figures on tom's hardwareguide (hehe) and everyone on thedvdforums (even Kurgan) is backing up the Core 2 Duos. Reading the reviews on Dabs as well.

The only person backing AMD... is you. lol.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Jan 2007, 16:38

Aren't the Intel's 32-Bit though? Which provided you've got the OS/Drivers sorted the 64-Bit chips are better.

tom2681 wrote:So I'd recommend:
-Either 3x 512 mb.
-Or 2x 1 gb.

I'd get to two 1Gb chips. You have a spare then. I know lots of people say latency is better spreading it across but I've never noticed any difference, plus it will be easier to sell a 1Gb chip than 512Mb chip later on.

What Games need 1.5Gb of Ram?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 13 Jan 2007, 17:00

Need, not many.

Want loads.

You can play many games with 512MB of Ram, but they wont be great. The 2GB of Ram is needed for many newer games, hell some need more than that to play perfectly with no loads and stuttering etc.. From the look of some games on the horizon games will need more than 2GB thats for sure.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 13 Jan 2007, 19:34

BiscLimpkit wrote:Damn I might need to go Intel. Everyone's saying that Intel are better than AMDS atm.... Need to reanalyise my quote.

As I said much earlier, Core 2 Duo > anything AMD.

Re: RAM: 2x1GB and slap in another 2GB in the future when needed. Lots of games sue well over 1GB and you'll also be able to disable the pagefile.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Jan 2007, 20:09

Disable the paging file are you nuts!

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 13 Jan 2007, 21:09

bradavon wrote:Disable the paging file are you nuts!

All it does is slow things down.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 14 Jan 2007, 08:25

You can disable the paging file (and you SHOULD) if you've got "more than enough" memory.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 14 Jan 2007, 09:27

What's a paging file?

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 14 Jan 2007, 10:31

The paging file is a file called Pagefile.sys (in Win XP). You can find it in the root of your main hard-drive (c:\), but it's hidden.

If your physical memory (RAM) is full, your programs will start using virtual memory (the paging file) to store their data while you're using them.

Problem is: your hard-drive is a lot slower than your RAM.
That's why the paging file should only be used as a last resort.

Right-click on "My Computer", Properties, advanced, performances, advanced, virtual memory.
Minimum and Maximum size should be the same.
Make sure that RAM + Virtual memory = 2 gb or more.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 14 Jan 2007, 10:47

Thanks Tom! You know everything about PCs it seems.

I'm ready to order now (pending on my online banking working again). Will report my progress in this thread. Then I'll be the newest n00b in the online gaming scene. 8)

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 14 Jan 2007, 13:15

tom2681 wrote:You can disable the paging file (and you SHOULD) if you've got "more than enough" memory.

You'd need more than 2Gb IMO and even so to disable it means if you ever go over 2Gb Windows crashes.

Lourdes wrote:All it does is slow things down.

Before that happens your PC will have crashed and with a permanent one that shouldn't happen anyway. A permanent swap file (aka - paging file) will stick at one size so not get defragment and if it increases when you restart it will drop back to down the Minimum.

tom2681 wrote:Minimum and Maximum size should be the same.
Make sure that RAM + Virtual memory = 2 gb or more.

No they shouldn't. Minimum should be set to whatever Windows recommends at the bottom and Maximum should be double that. By setting the Maximum to the same as the Minimum you're preventing Windows from increasing the paging file if it needs to.

Remember it's only a Maximum, Windows shouldn't ever use the additional space (but in my experience it's possible it may need to). For example mine I set to 1.5Gb Minimum and in 3 years Windows has only informed me it's need to lengthen this 1-3 times. If I had set the Maximum also to 1.5Gb Windows would've run out of memory.

Yes Hard Disk RAM is slower but it's better than having no RAM. Like I said even with 2Gb if you run out you're screwed.

p.s - Remember Bisc Tom doesn't think you need a virus checker yet the rest of the world (including other IT Technicians) thinks you do

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 14 Jan 2007, 14:52

If you have a pagefile it will be used whether you have free RAM or not, thus no pagefile > having one. If you ever do run out of memory (photoshop or memory leak) Windows temporarily creates one for you. There's no use for one these days, any applications that demand more memory really want RAM so a pagefile is pointless. The only time I've ever had to use a pagefile aside from mishaps since getting 2GB+ RAM is for crappy games from Take2 that won't run without one.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 14 Jan 2007, 15:40

I didn't know Windows automatically creates one. So you're saying with less than 2Gb you still need one?

What's Take2?

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 14 Jan 2007, 15:50

Lourdes wrote:If you have a pagefile it will be used whether you have free RAM or not

Actually, this registry key:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]

"DisablePagingExecutive"=dword:00000001

will prevent the use of the pagefile as long as you have free RAM.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 14 Jan 2007, 15:54

Just choose "No Paging File", it seems easier than messing with the registry or does Windows overwrite that?

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 14 Jan 2007, 16:00

"No Paging file": Windows creates one when you're out of RAM.
"Registry tweak": Allows you to have a pagefile ready, but it will only be used when you're out of RAM.

It will save you a little bit of time when you're out of RAM (maybe just enough to avoid a crash).

But it's just a matter of personal preference.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 14 Jan 2007, 22:59

tom2681 wrote:
Lourdes wrote: Actually, this registry key:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]

"DisablePagingExecutive"=dword:00000001

will prevent the use of the pagefile as long as you have free RAM.

Not entirely, it will still page applications on occasion and always make some use of it (I've set up a perflog for this ebfore)

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Jan 2007, 01:08

Lourdes wrote:Not entirely, it will still page applications on occasion and always make some use of it (I've set up a perflog for this ebfore)

Frankly I'd prefer that than no paging file period as in turning it off, even if as you say it still uses it a bit.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 30 Jan 2007, 11:07

I'm looking at building a decent PC multiple purpose as well, but am on a budget.

CPU:- Pentium D 3.4 GHz Dual Core (Socket 775) sounds pretty good and is well priced, that any good? Core 2 Duos look to be too expensive for me and I have zero interest in AMD.

RAM:- would a 1GB (2* 512MB) DDR2 Dual Channel kit be sufficient?

Power supplies:- 400W is adequate enough? Will probably have one HDD and 2-3 USB devices hooked up.

Graphics cards:- Is the Geforce 6600GT 128GB PCI-E a good card?

Motherboards:- Onboard sound and ethernet sufficient? I don't really give a shit about more than 2 channel sound for PCs. 100MB Ethernet is good enough.

Thanks in advance.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 30 Jan 2007, 11:32

Everything seems fine, with the exception of the RAM; nowadays, you'd probably want to stick 2GB in there if you're going to play games. And for the same reason, you'd want a better graphics card. A 6600 is a bit of joke. If you want nVidia, go with at least a 7000 series card of the same model or with ATI an X1000 series, again of the same model.
Depends on the price you can get 'em at, of course; top end (and even decent) graphics cards don't come cheap. I personally would get nothing less than a 600 model from either camp and that would be just so that the Aero visuals ran properly in Vista, let alone the ability to play games.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 30 Jan 2007, 11:59

I just wanna play Half-Life 2, F.E.A.R. and Neverwinter Nights 2. The only upcoming game that interests me looks to be Dragon Age, nothing else really.
EDIT:- Decided that to get a Geforce 7600GS, or a GT if my budget permits.

Question:- Can I use PC2-4200 DDR2 RAM on a motherboard that supports PC2-4300?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Jan 2007, 19:01

2Gb will also make it future proof or safe at least for Vista. If you don't play Games 1Gb is plenty on XP but as you do you may as well go for 2Gb.

Question:- Can I use PC2-4200 DDR2 RAM on a motherboard that supports PC2-4300?

Yes. It's up to 4300 but will go down. There maybe a bottom limit but it will be much lower than 4200. I've done this, not on RAM that fast but the principle is the same and I'd be very surprised if they've changed it.

I guess it's best to double check though.