At Least 25 Million Americans Pirate Movies

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Jan 2007, 01:07

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/25/236224

"There is a Robin Hood effect — most people perceive celebrities and studios to be rich already and as a result don't think of movie downloading as a big deal

The perspective is that users simply don't care, or believe, that that the studios are being hurt by piracy, the self-funded study found. The survey revealed that 78 percent of those surveyed found that physically stealing a DVD from a store was a serious offense, but only 40 percent believed copying the movie digital also merited a serious offense."

Exactly! They make more than enough as it is.

Stealing a physical disc and copying a film are not the same thing. No matter how much the studios try and convince us they are.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 26 Jan 2007, 01:30

Well... personally I cant understand young singers/bands bitchinga nd moaning about their cd's being copied and them losing money. Nowadays they expect to make 1 CD and live of it the rest of their lifes or something.
You're pretending to be fucking musicians: GO OUT A FEW NIGHTS A WEEK AND PERFORM AND MAKE A LIVING, YOU LAZY BASTARDS!

I'm not big on downloading movies myself, cause I think the pricing for DVD's is pretty much OK as it is. But yeah, I dont consider it theft either. Movies that I like I will buy anyway.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 26 Jan 2007, 05:42

I don't download music... but agree that the cost of CDs in the UK is too expensive.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 26 Jan 2007, 12:11

They could put 3 albums and 20 music videos on a single DVD-Audio, sell it for £1 and still make a profit.

Greedy bastards.

Re: pirates:
Stealing from a store is wrong because you're stealing a media.
Downloading/Copying a movie is OK because you're not stealing from anyone.

What these idiots don't understand is:
Let's say I want to watch a specific film. I won't go directly to the theater and spend 8€ without knowing whether I'll like the film.

So I'm downloading it (a screener or a DVD-Rip) or I'm buying a cheap bootleg.
-If I like it, then I'll go to the theater and then I'll buy the DVD.
-If I don't like it, then I'll delete it and that'll be it.

If there weren't any bootleggers or p2p services, then I would never take the chance (I would never spend any money on a film that I haven't seen yet).

Instead of counting how much money they're losing, they should be counting how much money they're getting THANKS to pirates.

I actually think they're not losing any money at all:
Think about it: a true pirate is a guy who doesn't want to spend any money on films or music.

Possibility A: There's no p2p/bootlegs. He doesn't listen to anything, he doesn't watch anything. The studios aren't getting his money.
Possibility B: There is p2p/ There are bootlegs. He listens to music, he watches films. The studios still aren't getting his money.

So it's not a question of "losing money", it's a question of "not making as much money as we want".
Let the poor pirate watch his films. You're never getting his money anyway.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 26 Jan 2007, 13:17

Tom, not everyone is like you. In fact, most people think if they have seen a movie (no matter if legally or illegally) they aren't going to spend any money to watch it again.

A lot of people in the industry are very rich. But a lot of others are not and I'm pretty sure if there were no pirates, one effect of the studios becoming richer would be that they'd dare to produce and finance more independent cinema.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Jan 2007, 13:27

I agree with LD, as for going to the cinema without knowing if you'll like the film or not, there are some films I'd like to check out that I've never even heard of, playing in a cinema/theatre, I don't know if I'll like them per se, how can I?

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 26 Jan 2007, 13:36

thelostdragon wrote:Tom, not everyone is like you. In fact, most people think if they have seen a movie (no matter if legally or illegally) they aren't going to spend any money to watch it again.

A lot of people in the industry are very rich. But a lot of others are not and I'm pretty sure if there were no pirates, one effect of the studios becoming richer would be that they'd dare to produce and finance more independent cinema.

I dont agree with that. First of all, whenever a studio made money, they didnt use the money to finance young and new talented independent bands or movies, but they use it for splashing cash on lots of marketing for example their teeny-bopping superstars, like Britney Spears, NSync, etc etc.

Right now, with people downloading music first and trying it out, there's alot more chance for independent musicians to work themselfs into the limelight, through the internet and popularity contests on the web, etc.

Also, this whole new era of internet, is just basically making it possible to cut out the very very exoensive middle-man, which is obviously the studio. They are affraid of this so they play the 'pirates are robbing US, so let's fight them' card.

I'd say, if you are a musician/band, then just take matters into your own hand, cut out the middle man, and sell or offer the songs online for a very reasonable fee, and still make a nice profit.

As for movies, I think independent movies have a bigger chance of getting a shot at box-office gold right now, then they did 10 years ago.
Young filmmakers post their stuff on websites and get attention and can get themselfs into the spotlight and will get offers when moviebosses see the feedback these filmmakers get from people who downloaded their stuff.

Like I said, I download music because the prices are riduclously high for a CD.
I buy my games and my dvds in the stores, cause I think they do offer a fair value for money.
Which is what it's all about. value for money.

It's like if the expensive pancakehouse down the road would be complaining about people going to the supermarket to get the ingredients to make their own pancakes...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Jan 2007, 14:45

No it's not. Unless you make your own said pancakes and then sell them for money.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 26 Jan 2007, 15:33

grim_tales wrote:No it's not. Unless you make your own said pancakes and then sell them for money.

Do you sell your downloaded music and movies?

I mean, people are just getting the 'ingredients' they want and make the product themselfs, so a pc, internet-access, some empty cd's/dvds's, etc.
They dont need to buy the official product anymore but can still enjoy it by 'getting it by themselfs', because the seller of the real product is asking wayyy too much money for the product, so people wouldnt buy it anyway.

If the pancake house wants to survive, they'll need to lower their prices to get more costumers in, or provide something extra in terms of quality or experience that the home-made product cant deliver.

So this is why DVDs now come with lots of extra's, and nice artwork and packaging, etc etc.
If there was no competition of illegal downloads, we would still be buying movies with no extra's and simple packaging, for 20-25 pounds a movie.

The music-industry has obviously not yet adjusted to this new era, and are still offering 10-songs-an-album for 15-20 euro... in simple packaging.
Which is why many people decide it's not worth the money buying it, and instead just download it. And I agree with those people.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Jan 2007, 16:09

Me? No I don't download movies but I have taped stuff of the radio

Erm.. the difference is I don't copy my movies/music and THEN sell them for money whereas a pirate does that.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 26 Jan 2007, 16:25

we arent talking abotu selling them grim, yi's point is that, in the euphamism of pancakes, that if you have to the tools to do it yourself, and save money then why do you buy something thats twice the cost?

i openly admit tht i download music and movies, why? becuase i cant afford all the films i want to see.. if its cool then fair enough often i'll go buy it on dvd, or even see it in the cinema like i did with HOFD and fearless...however if its shit, i am not going to pay £10-£20 for a film that i hate...wheres the point in that?

as for CDs well you only need to look at where to money goes to see why i dont buy them...you have a CD you pay £14 for it, out of that the band, gets £1 or less...the rest goes to the fat cats. yeah thats really supporting them, just let them be screwed over.

but, depsite the fact i download, i dont burn them to dvd or cd, or sell them. so im not making a profit out of them. instead i'll often buy a film i wouldnt have, becuase i wasnt gonna risk wasting money...

i agree with Yi about bands, they should take matters into their own hands, and sell their own CDs/songs at reasonable prices, and they'd STILL make more generally per CD that the ones at the top...the only difference is, is that they dont have that £2m deal to say "you'll do what we want or your careers over"

as for the big companies financing independant films...well...if they didnt pay poor-rate actors millions to star in a shitty, done 1000 times before film, they'd have more money to finance these indie films. its like football NO-ONE and i mean no-one is worth £1m, £2 £14m or whatever. just use the money for something else. and give them a reasonable wage.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Jan 2007, 20:31

IMO stealing a CD/DVD is wrong as you're taking something away from the owner without permission. Copying a film/music you're not the original is very much there and intact.

That's why they are NOT the same.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 26 Jan 2007, 23:05

What about stealing a DVD, copying its contents and then replacing the disc back where you got it from?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Jan 2007, 23:30

tom2681 wrote:If there weren't any bootleggers or p2p services, then I would never take the chance (I would never spend any money on a film that I haven't seen yet).

OMG! Why bother going to the cinema at all if your first experience of every film is a bootleg.

That makes no sense to me. It's impossible to get the same out of a film the second time, simply because you've already seen it. So to "experiance a film" by always doing so via bootleg you're really not giving a film a chance.

DVDs and Cinemas really if you think about it cost peanuts.

tom2681 wrote:Take piracy away people won't suddenly buy the same number of films.

Which is exactly why all this "we're losing X amount of money" under scrutiny is utter bollocks.

Yi-Long wrote:Also, this whole new era of internet, is just basically making it possible to cut out the very very exoensive middle-man, which is obviously the studio. They are affraid of this so they play the 'pirates are robbing US, so let's fight them' card.

Exactly!

That is the real truth, they'd never admit to.

I think it's EMI who're for the first time providing MP3s as a well as DRM WMA/AAC music available to download. It's slowly being proven that DRM ultimately doesn't work. Especially when the people it hinders the most are your customers who loyally pay for your product. DRM and it's like has never worked to stop pirates and it never will.

You tell someone they do something and the first thing they'll do is go and do it anyway.

Yi-Long wrote:Like I said, I download music because the prices are riduclously high for a CD.

IMO I don't think they are. CD WOW charge a reasonable price for CDs. CDs cost no more than DVDs.

Yi-Long wrote:If there was no competition of illegal downloads, we would still be buying movies with no extra's and simple packaging, for 20-25 pounds a movie.

Very true, very true indeed. Of course most people though don't want all that and just opt for the bootleg or 1 disc version anyway.

Yi-Long wrote:Which is why many people decide it's not worth the money buying it, and instead just download it. And I agree with those people.

Not really those people wouldn't pay 1 Euro for a CD. Simply because it's not free.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 27 Jan 2007, 00:04

The reason that these huge figures are bandied about in terms of films and sports is because of potential.
Paying Tom Cruise $20m is, in the studios eyes, a worthwhile investment as it means that a certain number of people are guaranteed to go see the film, which means that the costs involved to create the film will be recouped. The same goes for sport; paying Thierry Henry £120k a week is done on the basis that the guy can produce results which mean that the team as a whole can progress to get more money and so on and so on.
The maxims of Don Simpson live to this day. Not saying it's right, but it's how it is.

There was a guy who knew how to party

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Jan 2007, 00:31

Kurgan wrote:What about stealing a DVD, copying its contents and then replacing the disc back where you got it from?

That would be wrong as you've still stolen it in the first place but taking it with permission, copying it and then returning it is entirely right IMO.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:00

So it's OK if you went to a store like Blockbuster, rented a DVD and then copied it?

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:05

bradavon wrote:That would be wrong as you've still stolen it in the first place but taking it with permission, copying it and then returning it is entirely right IMO.

What? You can only be serious if you are talking about the permission by the respective studio.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:06

Yep IMO.

You yourself said you've record off the radio and I bet you have TV. What about tape back in the day? I bet you've done that too.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:09

bradavon wrote:Yep IMO.

Brad, who gives you the right to do so? Why should anybody buy a DVD then? It's not ok. Not for 1 second of a thought.

Unrealnils · Post by **Unrealnils** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:10

Can of worms indeed,

I guess i fall under the robin hood scenario as im not harming any one and there rich already so why not !

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:15

thelostdragon wrote:Brad, who gives you the right to do so?

Chill Mr. LD. Do you suddenly work for a music/film company?

You'll find if you read though the posts I'm not the only one saying this.

thelostdragon wrote:Why should anybody buy a DVD then?

That's an entirely different point from the one I was answering. The two aren't connected.

thelostdragon wrote:It's not ok. Not for 1 second of a thought.

Like I said I don't believe for a second you've never record off TV or Radio. I'm not sure how old you are exactly but there was a time copying Tapes was common place.

Hell tape to tape machines were in every CD Player for a certain period of time. They even made it easier with High Speed dubbing. This has never happened with CDs but don't think for a second if it had people wouldn't be copying CDs.

It's not okay to copy a DVD, why? Because I'm breaking copyright on an overpriced DVD from a company who earns billions ripping us off yearly?

For the record I copy and download such a miniscule amount of Films and Audio. I buy all my albums from CD WOW (religiously) and buy all my Films on DVD too.

What exactly isn't right about it? Copying a DVD isn't stealing, sorry I don't believe for 1 second it is. Irrespective of what the law says.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:33

bradavon wrote:
thelostdragon wrote:Brad, who gives you the right to do so?
Chill Mr. LD. Do you suddenly work for a music/film company?

No, I just can't believe this general "It's ok to do illegal stuff"-attitude.

The film business is the business I am working in and seek to have success in. I don't know if I would want to come to this board anymore if I found out all the people here think it is ok to download my first international film and also do so.

You'll find if you read though the posts I'm not the only one saying this.

So if everybody thought it was ok to do something illegal, I guess it is then.

Like I said I don't believe for a second you've never record off TV or Radio. I'm not sure how old you are exactly but there was a time copying Tapes was common place.

If you wanna stay in the past, fair enough. Times change and it is not common any longer.

When I was taping films from TV, 1st of all I was between 5 and 14 and barely knew it was illegal to do so (I'm not even sure if it is in Germany) and 2nd of all, at least the TV stations pay the licence fees to the studios, who frankly spoken know exactly that there are people taping their films.

It's not okay to copy a DVD, why? Because I'm breaking copyright on an overpriced DVD from a company who earns billions ripping us off yearly?

Don't buy it if you can't afford it. Guess you have to do without the luxury of motion picture entertainment. That doesn't give you the right to steal it.

It's not like movies are a basic human need. If you couldn't afford water, it is ok to steal it as that would fall into the category of "theft of food".

For the record I copy and download such a miniscule amount of Films and Audio. I buy all my albums from CD WOW (religiously) and buy all my Films on DVD too.

Fair enough. Good man! But if you don't believe it is stealing, why waste so much money if you can get the same luxury for free?

Copying a DVD isn't stealing, sorry I don't believe for 1 second it is.

Why?

Irrespective of what the law says.

It's not about what the law says only. It's about common sense that should tell you, that you should pay if you want to see the work of hard-working people, who request money from the viewers. I don't sneak into a theater play either, do I?

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:54

thelostdragon wrote:The film business is the business I am working in and seek to have success in. I don't know if I would want to come to this board anymore if I found out all the people here think it is ok to download my first international film and also do so.

I'd download it and if it was any good I'd buy it. Same as I always do.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:55

bradavon wrote:It's not okay to copy a DVD, why? Because I'm breaking copyright on an overpriced DVD from a company who earns billions ripping us off yearly?

This kinda thinking is just as flawed as the concept of that DRM. Just as DRM mainly complicates matters for people who are legitimately buying music, what you're saying there is it's OK to break copyright because the studios are ripping you off. How are they ripping you off if you've not bought their products?