What are the best Jackie Serious + MA (no stunts) films?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Dec 2006, 20:59

I saw Project A earlier tonight and having seen:

Drunken Master (different I realise)
Drunken Master 2
Police Story
Police Story 2
Project A

I'm giving up.

All the above while having clever stunts are mundane to say the least (IMO). I probably like Police Story most (and DM then DM2 least) but even that is dull when no action is happening, the stories are soo poorly written, which of course most of the film revolves around. The problem I've come to realise is the stunts look like stunts. Which is ironic when I know they are completely realistic (no tricks or CGI).

I recently picked up "Crime Story" as I reckon I'll like that but Jackie's stunts + comedy films I've had enough off. They all look like long stunt documentaries to me not real films. While at times the humour can be funny (as in Project A's bike chase) overall I find the humour silly. Give me serious any day (I realise Police Story has this).

The only two Jackie HK films I've seen of his I like are:

Police Story 3
Who Am I?

And only then Police Story 3 I really like. Who Am I? is really dumb in places.

* So except for Crime Story has Jackie made any even semi-serious films? Where he's not ALWAYS playing the bafoon.

* And what about some Jackie films where he actually does martial arts? Sure the stunts are clever but it's so obvious they're stunts. Give me Jet Li martial arts any day.

That's all. Happy Christmas

p.s - No old school either please.

If you're left with just "Crime Story" then so be it. I'll stick with PS3, Who Am I?, Shanghai Noon and the two Rush Hours. I like those.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 24 Dec 2006, 21:17

Rumble in the Bronx
First Strike
Miracles (has comedy in it, but it has a very nice story. Jackie made that film after so many people kept saying he was always making the same kind of movies.)
Armour of God
Island of Fire (a must-watch for you actually, although Jackie only has an extended cameo)
The Accidental Spy (didn't like it that much, but goes into the serious direction as you prefer)
Gorgeous (romantic comedy with some nice one-to-one fighting in sparring style)
Heart of Dragon
Thunderbolt
New Police Story (although the bad guys were kinda silly in this one.)
Dragons Forever (more fighting than big stunts. Jackie plays a lawyer.)

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 24 Dec 2006, 23:35

thelostdragon wrote:First Strike

No fucking way is First Strike serious. He wrestles a rubber shark FFS.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 24 Dec 2006, 23:41

Thunderbolt and Gorgeous were pretty entertaining movies. They have interesting stories and a nice supporting cast.

First Strike and Accidental Spy are gawdawfull.

Dragons Forever is great, and Yuen Biao is awesome in it.

New Police Story was kinda shite as well. Lame-ass comicbook 'bad guys' (or bad 'kids'), a dumbass story, pretty bad acting all around, action not that great either... just not very interesting.

Armour, Miracles and Rumble all have their flaws, but are still decent movies with some very entertaining scenes in them.

Heart of Dragon is good, but not great. It isnt quite deep enough to be a good drama, and it doesnt have enough action to be a good actionmovie (although the action that IS there, is absolutely brilliant: Yuen Biao was the actiondirector I believe, and he makes Jackie look better then ever!)

Never seen Island on Fire.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 25 Dec 2006, 00:54

I would say watch Crime Story and Dragons Forever and if you dislike both I would give up on other JC films altogether, coz I doubt any of his other films are gonna change your mind.

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 25 Dec 2006, 02:22

Crime Story, without a doubt.

edit: Even though Dragons Forever is one of my all-time favorite films, I still don't see it as a "serious" Jackie film.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Dec 2006, 09:22

thelostdragon wrote:First Strike

I've seen bits of this and the dubbing was awful, they even dubbed the Aussie's??? But I should see it all before passing judgement.

thelostdragon wrote:Miracles (has comedy in it, but it has a very nice story. Jackie made that film after so many people kept saying he was always making the same kind of movies.)

Oh yeah I've heard this is good. Is the HKL or JS the way to go? Is the Joy Sales even out? I understand it's called "The Canton Godfather" on the JS release.

thelostdragon wrote:Armour of God

So it's best to get the HKL and not the box set?

thelostdragon wrote:Island of Fire (a must-watch for you actually, although Jackie only has an extended cameo)

Isn't this old school? Why is it a must watch for me?

I really, really hated DM and while I managed to sit through all of Prodigal Son it wasn't much better.

thelostdragon wrote:Gorgeous (romantic comedy with some nice one-to-one fighting in sparring style)

Oh yeah I think I have this and it does have Shu Qi in it.

thelostdragon wrote:New Police Story (although the bad guys were kinda silly in this one.)

I have this one too and need to check it out.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Dec 2006, 09:24

Thanks guys.

I always find it so hard to ask these sorts of questions (and obviously I can't watch them all) as my tastes are so wildly different from most Jackie fans. You ask the average fan and 2 of his top 5 will be DM2 and PS. I liked neither.

I'm thinking I should buy Dragons Forever and Miracles and then if I don't like them as Shingster says give up. I already have Crime Story to watch.

The funny thing is I liked parts of Project A, as I said the bike sequence was funny but overall it didn't work for me.

p.s - Why is Miracles different? It's more serious right?

Knetan · Post by **Knetan** » 25 Dec 2006, 09:30

hey,

Miracles is lavish in so many ways from cinematography to production design and does not try and put all focus on the very few fight/stunt scenes there are. There's a story in there and the material is also more family friendly (hence a PG rating in the UK).

Crime Story is more focused to be a thriller and while there are stunt heavier sequences, Jackie broke some new ground here as an actor. Something that was not carried over to the catastro-fuck that New Police Story was. A movie that was designed to be one, with serious story and acting but shot itself in the foot quickly. My opinion. Won't debate yours.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 25 Dec 2006, 11:53

the68monkey wrote:Crime Story, without a doubt.

edit: Even though Dragons Forever is one of my all-time favorite films, I still don't see it as a "serious" Jackie film.

Personally I think the only serious films JC's ever done (outside of the 70's) are Crime Story and New Police Story, Dragon's Forever does have comedy in it, but no more than pretty much the rest of his 80's/90's output.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 25 Dec 2006, 12:09

bradavon wrote:Oh yeah I've heard this is good. Is the HKL or JS the way to go? Is the Joy Sales even out? I understand it's called "The Canton Godfather" on the JS release.

Get the HKL. I'd say it has the best picture quality of any MediaAsia title they have ever released. The JoySales is only for die hard fans in my opinion. I have that one and bought it only for the few behind-the-scenes footage we get in it.

thelostdragon wrote:Island of Fire (a must-watch for you actually, although Jackie only has an extended cameo)
Isn't this old school? Why is it a must watch for me?

"Island of Fire" is not an old school film. It is a serious prison drama.

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 25 Dec 2006, 17:43

Island Of Fire rocks - even if it does rip off every prison movie in existance.

Dragon Fist is a good early serious Jackie film, as is To Kill With Intrigue - the latter is often slated quite a lot but I quite like it.

degeneration · Post by **degeneration** » 25 Dec 2006, 18:14

I quite liked Operation Condor: Armour of God II. Great fighting and a story about missing Nazi gold... or something like that.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Dec 2006, 23:39

Cheers again guys.

thelostdragon wrote:The JoySales is only for die hard fans in my opinion. I have that one and bought it only for the few behind-the-scenes footage we get in it.

So the HKL has better AV?

The JS with it's Mono + 5.1 interests me and it does come from a FS so can't be ignored. Better AV comes before extras (obviously).

Is there any screen capture comparison online?

thelostdragon wrote:"Island of Fire" is not an old school film. It is a serious prison drama.

Thanks

Pity the HKL BOGOF is now all but over

. I knew I took too long to watch Project A.

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 25 Dec 2006, 23:44

The problem with the FS Miracles is that they redid the titles so the distinctive gun/rose graphic has gone. It does have the mono track, which the HKL doesn't.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Dec 2006, 00:19

Any screen capture comparisons? What about the PQ otherwise? If it's only the titles that have been changed I'm not bothered in the slightest.

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I've just picked up "Dragons Forever" (from HKL).

Dave's review + screen captures at DVD Times convinced me I should give it a try. That and the contemporary setting.

Another problem I find is usually there has been so little though to set pieces and costumes the period clothing the actors where is laughable to say the least. I'm expected to believe the people in Project A actually came from that period???

If it's contemporary at least they don't need to try. I understand it's much better in "Miracles".

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 26 Dec 2006, 12:54

http://adg.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=1368

I didn't notice anything criminally anachronistic about Project A - apart from the clock tower but what the hell, it's Jackie Chan, not David Starkey

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Dec 2006, 14:59

Thanks for the link Ivan, Muldoon's captures say it all. King King haven't are stretched so IMO are difficult to tell which is better.

The HKL looks like a solid release. I do wonder why Fortune Star remasters are so hit and miss, when they get it right they're wonderful but lately they've been getting it wrong time and time again.

When the Fox DVDs came out all those eons ago they looked so much better than the HKL efforts but these new ones.

Oh so "The Canton Godfather" is a completely new title? I presumed it was a Asian name for the Western title "Miracles".

I like "Mr Canton And Lady Rose" best, it's elegant.

Ivan Drago wrote: I didn't notice anything criminally anachronistic about Project A - apart from the clock tower but what the hell, it's Jackie Chan, not David Starkey

Neither did I in particular, but I was really referring to the pantomime like costumes and set pieces.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 26 Dec 2006, 15:26

The HKL release of "Miralces" has the best picture quality available out there. It clearly has the sharpest image of them all.