Your favourite "zen-like" director/film

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Dec 2006, 19:02

You know filmmakers who are good with zen-like direction (i.e. Kitano, Yonfan, Mira Nair and even Jingle Ma before he turned into a loony).... well who's your fav?

Not really sure who mine is....

BTW, you can mention non-Asian filmmakers too.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 13 Dec 2006, 20:40

Yasujiro Ozu, Akira Kurosawa. The masters

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Dec 2006, 20:53

What do you mean by Zen? I'm going to presume you mean they never fail you.

Wong Kar-Wai, Martin Scorsese (okay GONY was a bit pants), Lucas Moodysson and Pedro Almoldovar. I've only heard of Kitano from your list.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 13 Dec 2006, 22:14

Michael Bay.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Dec 2006, 22:24

I can guess Romero's

-

At the top - Paul W.S. Anderson
Then - Paul Verhoeven
Followed by - McG

They all make nothing but masterpieces didn't you know?

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Dec 2006, 22:47

bradavon wrote:What do you mean by Zen? I'm going to presume you mean they never fail you.

No. Zen meaning tranquilising photography/music... sombre moods etc. Scorsese is definitely not zen and from what I've seen of Almodóvar, he isn't either.

Bay's a good answer Mark - The Island was most definitely Zen. Sublime use of filters, poetic camerawork.... absolute bliss. Although granted he does turn mental in the final third. Easily one of Bay's finest (cinematography wise).

I'd imagine WKW and Kim Ki Duk would be a favourite amongst many. Shingster, unfortunately I'm still an Ozu/Kurosawa newbie.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Dec 2006, 23:17

Kitano often isn't either. Okay obviously WKW but yes definitely Almodóvar too (parts of Volver I'd say fit).

If we're including Kitano then Almodóvar is also allowed too. Oh yeah "Kim Ki Duk" too.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Dec 2006, 23:23

No, Kitano most definitely is - he's world renowned for his zen like approach. Despite portraying brutal, unexpected violence, his films are immensely tranquil. Just look at Scene at the Sea, Sonatine and Violent Cop (which I just finished watching).

I personally don't think Volver reaches anywhere near the same level as Kitano but it is an excellent film.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Dec 2006, 23:29

I wasn't disagreeing just pointing out if Kitano fits then so should Almodóvar. I personally wouldn't say Violent Cop is tranquil in the slightest but fair enough and agreed on the rest (I've not seen Scene at the Sea).

You were joking about Bay right?

I personally don't think Volver reaches anywhere near the same level as Kitano but it is an excellent film.

Does the tranquillity have to be the same level for it to be allowed? It's your, thread complicated as it maybe so whatever you say

Okay Wong Kar-Wai easily beats Kitano then

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Dec 2006, 23:32

Okay maybe Almoldovar is pushing it but I've thought of two others which definitely fit:

Paul Thomas Anderson
Sophia Copolla

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Dec 2006, 23:36

It helps if you have an idea of what "zen-like" means - after I saw Scorcese mentioned, I knew something wasn't right. But WKW is probably the master of this particular style (even though I think Kitano makes better movies).

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 13 Dec 2006, 23:42

Brad, are you smoking crack tonight or what man? No offence, but your suggestions so far have barely come close to the cinematic equivalent of zen!

King Hu deserves brucie bonus points for making zen the theme and putting it in the title of his best film!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Dec 2006, 23:48

With the exception of Scorsese (fair enough) and "possibly" Almoldovar I'd say Punch Drunk Love, Magnolia, Virgin Suicides and Lost in Translation are all tranquil, are they now? Am I mistaken?

Virgin Suicides and Lost in Translation in particular.

even though I think Kitano makes better movies

No way man (IMO), get past Kitano's tranquility and he's overrated IMO. I've liked his films but only consider Dolls a keeper (of the 4-5 I've seen) and even that isn't amazing. WKW hasn't failed me yet, every film is layer cake of tranquillity.

but your suggestions so far have barely come close to the cinematic equivalent of zen!

What is the cinematic equivalent of zen then? As I clearly don't have a scooby doo.

Bisc did say we could choose non Asian film-makers too

. Okay clever cloggs (that's you and Bisc

) pick me a non-Asian Zen like film director?

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Dec 2006, 23:54

Sofia Ford Coppola for sure (good suggestion with Virgin Suicides and Lost in Translation). Maybe to a lesser extent Andrew Niccoll, who loves his filters and haunting photography.

Reality is though, Asian directors pull it off so much better. True Zen originates from the east.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 14 Dec 2006, 00:05

You know when you watch an asian film and all those Buddhist monks tell the protagonist to work hard, devote yourself to inner peace and finding the meaning in menial tasks, don't react to the world around you, don't fight blah blah blah

all that bollocks is Zen. Just coz Sofia Coppolla decided to make Lost In Translation seem more intelligent than it actually is by removing 90% of the dialogue, does not make it Zen. 8)

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 14 Dec 2006, 00:08

Many of Kurosawa's films were based around Zen themes, starting from his directorial debut: Sugata Shanshiro. Ozu more than any other director than I can think of right now evokes a Zen-like feeling of self-reflection in the viewer when watching his films.

IMO it's an absolute joke to mention the likes of Scorcese, Sofia Coppolla, Paul Thomas Anderson etc all in the same breath when talking about cinematic Zen masters. All these western directors have just dipped their toes superficially in some Zen concepts.

Johnnie To has touched upoin Zen in films ike Throwdown and Running on Karma, the former far more successfully than the latter (which used Zen more as a plot device than to evoke mood).

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 14 Dec 2006, 00:38

Wkw for sure. Sofia Coppola as well...

Some of the Sergio Leone movies... especially those with those haunting soundtracks, like Once upon a Time in the West...

And Eternal Sunshine is a nice dreamride...

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 14 Dec 2006, 00:53

@Bisc:
If you're looking for zen, korean cinema is what you're after.

Take Care of my Cat / Letter from Mars are perfect examples IMO.
The camera doesn't move much, all the actors have a lot of freedom, the score is awesome...

@Brad:
As I understand it, a zen film is a film that can tell pretty much any story you want (from romance to thriller), but without using aggressive editing techniques or aggressive music (or aggressive camera movements).

For example, Sympathy for Mr Vengeance is pure zen IMO.
It tells a horrible story without showing much violence.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 14 Dec 2006, 01:15

tom2681 wrote:@Bisc:
If you're looking for zen, korean cinema is what you're after.

As opposed to Japan, which has been regularly churning out minimalist zen-like films since the dawn of cinema? Yes you're right, the last 5 yrs of Korean cinema IS more applicable isn't it?

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 14 Dec 2006, 01:18

Yeah, but I don't know anything about japanese cinema.

Can't recommend something I know nothing about.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 14 Dec 2006, 01:21

The goal of Zen Buddhims is to attain enlightenment by the most direct means possible, inner and self-reflection before studies and observation.

Considering this I'd say that Ozu produces the most Zen-like aesthetic and I laugh at the idea that any of the other directors mentioned here followed the same principles in filmmaking, even Kurosawa.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 14 Dec 2006, 01:21

You're the first person i've seen mention A Letter From Mars since it came out! Wasn't a bad film an all.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 14 Dec 2006, 01:24

Yep. Not a very popular picture, apparently.

I wonder why. I mean.. it's got Shin Ha-Gyun and Kim Hee-Sun in it.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 14 Dec 2006, 01:32

Lourdes wrote:Considering this I'd say that Ozu produces the most Zen-like aesthetic and I laugh at the idea that any of the other directors mentioned here followed the same principles in filmmaking, even Kurosawa.

I take it you've not seen the likes of Sugata Sanshiro, Dersu Uzala, Dreams, Ikiru. Kurosawa regularly made films about characters reaching a zen-like realisation throughout his career. I'm not surprised you rubbished Kurosaw given that he used Zen themes rather than aesthetics, as you cling to your "minmalism" pretentions like a fly to a big steaming turd.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 14 Dec 2006, 01:35

Definitely Kitano and Kim Ki Duk as you have ypointed out, Bisc.

But then I also really like the films of Akira Kurosawa that fall into the "zen" category.

Yoji Yamada is another director that is on my list of "Films to get." I liked "The Hidden Blade", but really loved "The Twilight Samurai".

Would you add Zhang Yimou to that list with his films like "Not One Less" or "The Road Home"?

As for recent Hollywood films where I felt they went into that direction I think of "The Weather Man". I really liked that due to the aspect that it was far more calm and down-to-earth than your average Hollywood-flick.

And also: Chen Kaige anybody?