New Police Story

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 10 Oct 2006, 23:49

bradavon wrote:
Knetan wrote:not barely strung together plot in order for the action sequences to feel somewhat warranted
And that's not Police Story?

That wasn't a dis at PS just I'm sure the action scenes came way first.

Not a dis at all. It isn't a secret that for "Police Story" Jackie designed all the action scenes and then told the scriptwriter (Edward Tang) to create a story that surrounds these action scenes.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 11 Oct 2006, 08:56

Rumble In The Bronx was great, ironically almost identical in plot to Way of The Dragon, which was going to be a movie to launch Bruce in the West.

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 11 Oct 2006, 14:36

grim_tales wrote:Rumble In The Bronx was great, ironically almost identical in plot to Way of The Dragon, which was going to be a movie to launch Bruce in the West.

Apparently it wasn't. Several sources say Way was supposed to be a New Year comedy and Bruce wasn't keen on it or the Lo Wei films being used to promote him in the US ahead of Enter The Dragon.

And I couldn't stand Rumble In The Bronx

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 11 Oct 2006, 15:13

Rumble is the poorest film Jackie made since joining Golden Harvest (unless you count Fantasy Mission Force).

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 11 Oct 2006, 16:20

Ivan, I didn't know that

Well I liked it Mark, so there!

Surely a better vehicle for Jackie than Rush Hour!

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 11 Oct 2006, 18:54

Markgway wrote:Rumble is the poorest film Jackie made since joining Golden Harvest (unless you count Fantasy Mission Force).

I find the New Line released Hong Kong Jackie films - Rumble In The Bronx, First Strike and Mr. Nice Guy - to be his weakest. What happened?

dragonhero005 · Post by **dragonhero005** » 11 Oct 2006, 19:36

Ivan Drago wrote:
Markgway wrote:Rumble is the poorest film Jackie made since joining Golden Harvest (unless you count Fantasy Mission Force).
I find the New Line released Hong Kong Jackie films - Rumble In The Bronx, First Strike and Mr. Nice Guy - to be his weakest. What happened?

I don't think they're so bad, but you're right... they're somehow different from Jackie's previous works... and I'm not talking about the reddish Hair Jackie has.
Well those movies were all shot in English, as far as I know, which might have made acting more difficult for Jackie. And somehow, those 3 movies have got a lot in common if you ask me (the "I'll destroy everything endings" of RitB and Mr. Nice Guy are really bad!). Structure is rather easy and the movies are mainly concentrating on action. But they are watchable and very entertaining sometimes (great stunts in RitB, the under-water-fight in First Strike and the fight at the construction side in Mr. Nice Guy are top!). It seems that those movies were exactly what HK-audiences wanted to see at that time, as all of the 3 scored a lot at the local boxoffice.

Personally I prefer First Strike, to the rather dark RiTB. And RiTB to Mr. Nice Guy. They are okay, but none of them is on my Top10 Jackie List.

But actually we're discussing about NPS, so here's my opinion:

NPS was Jackie's HK-comback. He always said that he had not enough freedom with the actionscenes and didn't get the chance to play differnet characters in Hollywood. So now there was no excuse for NPS.

And IMO NPS doesn't need any excuses, as I really liked it. The action is great (come on guys, don't tell me you didn't like the chasing sequence, were Jackie is running downside the building with the following bus sequence or the final fight with Andy On or the stunts on the Hk Convention Centre

). Much better than in his disappointing American flicks like Around the World, Tuxedo or the semi-American "Medallion". Also does it have nice acting by Jackie (yes, I thought it was quite appealing) and Daniel Wu, a nice soundtrack, good cinematography and an okay-ish plot.
I didn't like those young guys (especially Terence Yin) very much as well, but that is what NPS is about: Crazy, rich and especially unpredictable guys.

Of course NPS isn't perfect, but in my eyes it's a solidly made exiting ride, which I'd rate 4/5.

Crime Story is a good movie as well - maybe better than NPS. But just because Crime Story is better, NPS needn't be bad.

I think the main difference between those two movies is made by their directors, as Benny Chan was definitely influenced by Jackie much more than Kirk Wong was...
Maybe the reason why Jackie's acting in NPS seems overdone sometimes. Jackie seems to try to show he can act too hard. But as we all know: sometimes less can be more...

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 11 Oct 2006, 19:55

I think when Jackie does break out of a restrictive forced stereotype, he can go OTT. Look at Half A Loaf Of Kung Fu and Fearless Hyena; completely silly movies born of a desperation to break the serious character stereotype

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 11 Oct 2006, 22:36

Jackie's acting in NPS is so OTT it made me want to catch a plane over to HK and punch him in the face, but most of the blame is down to the ridiculously melodramatic story. After subjecting us to GenX, GenY and NPS there should be a law passed banning Benny Chan from even watching another film again, let alone making one.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 11 Oct 2006, 22:48

NPS: The whole story is ridiculous, Jackie's character is a wuss (cause he's overacting), the baddies are lame as hell... straight out of a lame saturday-morning cartoon, the action is mediocre, and what else is there to say.

Yeah it's better then The Tuxedo. Big whoop-ti-doo...(!) It's still crap, isnt it?

People complain about Tom Yum Goong being a bad movie, and it is (VERY VERY bad), but at least that movie delivered, and you could tell that Tony wants to bring the audience something new, fresh, innovative, when it comes to the action. Jackie hasnt been trying to bring us anything new or innovative for years. He's just doing half-assed fights and half-assed stunts the last 10 years orso.

I can understand he's old and all that, but just ADJUST, so instead of doing fightscenes where you have to jump and fly around alot, make the character use wing-chun and do some kick-ass original choreography around that. And instead of doing certain stunts you cant do properly anymore, do other kind of stunts that ARE still possibkle at that age, and which will be original and new.

There was a time where Jackie was constantly focussed on bringing his fans everything he got,bringing them fresh stuff to awe at. Nowadays, it seems he's just making movies for the sake of making movies. Going from one lame script to the next... just doing his thing, and moving on...

A shame. If he's gonna be like that, he might as well just have quit 10 years ago, and save us and himself the disappointment.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 11 Oct 2006, 22:59

Fair point there Yi-Long. Jackie is very much the Asian Robert Deniro (no not in martial arts terms

).

NPS: The whole story is ridiculous

The majority of Jackie's films have ridiculous plots. Shanghai Noon and Knights anyone?

Yeah it's better then The Tuxedo. Big whoop-ti-doo...(!) It's still crap, isnt it?

No idea I've seen it

Shingster wrote:Jackie's acting in NPS is so OTT it made me want to catch a plane over to HK and punch him in the face

My god that's strong. I'd hate to hear what you'd do to your enemy if you punch someone you're a fan of in the face.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 11 Oct 2006, 23:08

bradavon wrote:Fair point there Yi-Long. Jackie is very much the Asian Robert Deniro (no not in martial arts terms ).

True... although Robbie DeNiro you KNOW he's got great acting skillz... so when he overacts, you almost go: Guess he was just badly directed, or he was meant to overact...
Jackie is basically the boss on every project his involved in, so if he has a 'mumbling whiny crying drunk cop' routine going on, he probably wanted it to be that way...

NPS: The whole story is ridiculous
The majority of Jackie's films have ridiculous plots. Shanghai Noon and Knights anyone?

True, but those were buddy-comedies with a little action involved, so you kinda take that for granted.
With NPS it was marketed as a serious policethriller/actionflick, dealing with a cop with serious personal problems, serious acting by Jackie, etc. And the whole story and the 1-dimensional ridiculous bad guys and the awfull acting, ruined that ambition completely.
So it wanted to be 1 thing, and then completely failed to do that 1 thing due to poor decisions being made in the scripting and acting departments...

Shingster wrote:Jackie's acting in NPS is so OTT it made me want to catch a plane over to HK and punch him in the face
My god that's strong. I'd hate to hear what you'd do to your enemy if you punch someone you're a fan of in the face.

Well... it would have been the best action scene Jackie would have been involved in, for years.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 11 Oct 2006, 23:09

bradavon wrote:My god that's strong. I'd hate to hear what you'd do to your enemy if you punch someone you're a fan of in the face.

Yes, I was making a 100% serious comment there. Fear my wrath Brad. :twisted:

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 11 Oct 2006, 23:36

I think DH005 has summed my thoughts up quite well. As much as I'd agree with your 4/5, I only give it 3.5/5.

I'm looking forward to "Rob-B-Hood", which received good reviews, even from Kozo over at LoveHKFilm.com who verbally kills almost every new HK film (which most often he is right to do IMO).

What's even more interesting are his Derek Yee project ("Shinjuku Incident") and the project Zhang Yimou is working on for him (slated to start shooting late 2007). What a shame I am not as interested in his project with Jet Li.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Oct 2006, 00:14

I liked Jackie's Legoland fight with Andy On, captured a bit of the old magic.

But beyond that.........

I preferred Nice Guy and First Strike to both this and Rumble.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 12 Oct 2006, 00:40

I hated Nice Guy and First Strike. Just boring crap. Jackie fighting a plastic shark: woohooo...(!)
It doesnt help that many of the villains in Jackie's movies are just ridiculous.

I actually like Rumble, but it's a shame that he broke his foot so there wasnt an end-fight. Just nice pacing I guess...

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 12 Oct 2006, 00:56

"First Strike" was nice in my opinion. I look at it like a cool, entertaining agent flick, paired with a few Jackie fights. The problem most people have with this film is that there are only a few action scenes in it. But I love the observation/shootout/chase scene in the snow area. The fight at the memorial place aka the ladder fight is just awesome as well in my opinion.

"Mr. Nice Guy" has one good action scene which is at the construction site.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 12 Oct 2006, 04:25

bradavon wrote: cloud cooku (sp?) land.

It's cuckoo BTW.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 12 Oct 2006, 05:31

Yi-Long wrote:True... although Robbie DeNiro you KNOW he's got great acting skillz... so when he overacts, you almost go: Guess he was just badly directed, or he was meant to overact...
Jackie is basically the boss on every project his involved in, so if he has a 'mumbling whiny crying drunk cop' routine going on, he probably wanted it to be that way...

Did you get Brad's point? If you didn't, he meant in parallel to their career trends (I think anyway). As you said:- "There was a time where Jackie was constantly focussed on bringing his fans everything he got,bringing them fresh stuff to awe at. Nowadays, it seems he's just making movies for the sake of making movies. Going from one lame script to the next... just doing his thing, and moving on... "

DeNiro doesn't actually put any effort into performances like he used to; up until around 1996/97 DeNiro actually used to ACT. Now all he does is just mumbles and cashes cheques. We might see a brief return to form with his vanity project, The Good Shepherd (Surely he's passionate about that and would put effort into his performance?) though.

dragonhero005 · Post by **dragonhero005** » 12 Oct 2006, 05:41

thelostdragon wrote:What's even more interesting are his Derek Yee project ("Shinjuku Incident") and the project Zhang Yimou is working on for him (slated to start shooting late 2007).

Yup. Those sound very promising! But shooting for the Zhang Yimou project (it's going to be about landmines in Cambodia and the script is said to be already ready) won't start before 2008. Because Yimou, who will direct the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games 2008 in Bejing, said that wants to concentrate on that and so he won't make any movies until the Games are over.

Talking about Jackie's movies:

Nice Guy was very crappy in my eyes. Because besides the already mentioned fight at the construction side there were only the short appearances by Sammo that really could entertain me...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 12 Oct 2006, 07:40

Rumble was shot in cantonese I thought?

The dub was Jackie doing his own voice.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Oct 2006, 15:36

Cantonese and English sync-sound.

The New Line edit was redubbed entirely in English (with even the English being looped).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Oct 2006, 17:00

EvaUnit02 wrote:It's cuckoo BTW.

Thanks. I completely forgot how to spell it.

Shingster wrote:Yes, I was making a 100% serious comment there. Fear my wrath Brad. :twisted:

I know 8) , hitting someone in the face just sounds so extreme to me.

EvaUnit02 wrote:Did you get Brad's point? If you didn't, he meant in parallel to their career trends (I think anyway).

Yep I definitely did.

EvaUnit02 wrote:DeNiro doesn't actually put any effort into performances like he used to; up until around 1996/97 DeNiro actually used to ACT. Now all he does is just mumbles and cashes cheques. We might see a brief return to form with his vanity project, The Good Shepherd (Surely he's passionate about that and would put effort into his performance?) though.

It's such a shame

What a waste of so much talent.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 12 Oct 2006, 19:34

bradavon wrote:What a waste of so much talent.

To be fair, he has nothing to prove in his career any more and can afford to be a mumbling pay cheque casher. But becuz of this Marty won't work with him any more, so we're stuck with Leo.

It's a cop out really though, cuz the likes of Ian McKellen, Christopher Lee and Peter O'Toole are well into their 70's/80's and still giving top notch performances.