The Wong Kar-wai thread!

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 12 Aug 2006, 15:03

I can sort of tell the difference between the two languagess but I don't like guessing. I just knew it was him speaking the same language. He speaks at least five languages in any case and only ever dubs himself, and being that he only speaks as a voiceover in the film...

The person who came up with that originally was probably thick or taken off guard by PAL speedup. We all know Gary Tooze is thick for certain.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Aug 2006, 15:24

@ Tom: Everything you say while accurate I'm sure sounds like conjecture. As far as Fallen Angels goes you sound like you're guessing.

I'm not that bothered in honesty when the Kino R1 is perfectly fine.

Lourdes wrote:I can sort of tell the difference between the two languagess but I don't like guessing.

What Mandarin to Cantonese? They're vastly different. One sounds beautiful the other like gutter talk.

Lourdes wrote:He speaks at least five languages in any case

Exactly whose to say what "his" language is.

Lourdes wrote:I disproved that shortly after it was posted on the WKW.net forums over a year ago. DVDBeaver is worthless.

So you're saying it's not a dub after all? I'm confused.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 12 Aug 2006, 15:35

It's not a dub it's Kaneshiro speaking Mandarin and is as it should be.
Tom is right about actors speaking their 'own' language. In CE Kaneshiro speaks Canto but Mandarin for his voiceovers and in 2046 there's a transparent mix of Cantonese, Japanese and Mandarin. Kaneshiro was born and raised in Taiwan and Mandarin is 'his' language.

"What Mandarin to Cantonese? They're vastly different. One sounds beautiful the other like gutter talk."

I guess you can't quite tell the difference either.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Aug 2006, 15:58

Lourdes wrote:I guess you can't quite tell the difference either.

Huh? Yes I can in the way I described them but of course I can't understand either.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 12 Aug 2006, 16:41

I watched both Fallen Angels and DoBW this evening. FA was great IMO; DoBW was okay, I don't see what the big deal about it is. Christ, Leslie Cheung's character was such a prick and him realising prickiness at the end didn't change anything.

bradavon wrote:
EvaUnit02 wrote:I got my R1 WKW boxset today. Don't know what to do with the duplicate copy of Chungking Express.
Do you have the R1 twice?

No, I have the R2UK AE; as I've told you in the past. I've already arranged to have the R1 flogged off to my dad for $15nzd. I don't need an inferior transfer and to hear Tarantino's ignorant ramblings.

The UK R2 AE Chungking Express isn't better enough to worry about upgrading. The R1 is perfectly fine.

Waste of time when you already own a superior disc.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Aug 2006, 17:05

EvaUnit02 wrote:DoBW was okay, I don't see what the big deal about it is.

It was Wong's break through film and such has many fans. Agreed in comparisons it's nowhere near as good as his later work but on it's own (agreed which doesn't mean much anymore) it's only fairly good.

I've got Fallen Angels and Happy Together left to watch then I've seen all of WKW's work.

Are you watching them out of order?

as I've told you in the past.

Aren't I allowed to forget things?

I don't need an inferior transfer

How much worse is it in your opinion? Is your Dad into arty films too then?

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 12 Aug 2006, 17:43

bradavon wrote: It was Wong's break through film and such has many fans. Agreed in comparisons it's nowhere near as good as his later work but on it's own (agreed which doesn't mean much anymore) it's only fairly good.

Understandable.

I've got Fallen Angels and Happy Together left to watch then I've seen all of WKW's work.

Why haven't you watched them yet? I thought you were a big fan?

Are you watching them out of order?

Yes. Sif I need to "catalogue a director's artistic progression", I don't need to see them in order to do any bullshit like that.

Aren't I allowed to forget things?

No.

How much worse is it in your opinion?

Haven't watched it, I've only seen screen comparisons.

Is your Dad into arty films too then?

Anything really, as long as it's good. I saw a couple films with him during the AIFF last month (Los Olivados; and L'Enfer - the latest in Kieslowski's proposed Heaven, Hell, Purgatory trilogy), he thought that they were superb.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Aug 2006, 11:50

Haven't watched it, I've only seen screen comparisons.

I'd have wanted to compare for myself or did you want to leave it sealed? I'd still have checked as captures only go so far to showing how different DVDs look.

Why haven't you watched them yet? I thought you were a big fan?

To many DVDs not enough time.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 14 Aug 2006, 14:15

I saw Happy Together and As Tears Go By on Sunday.

HT was terrific. A great portrait of two egotistical individuals stuck in a continous vicious cycle that neither can break. Leslie Cheung is still playing a prick.

ATGB was mind-numblingly average and SO clearly made "before WKW became WKW". Makes me appreciate DOBW a whole lot more. The use of the Top Gun/Berlin's "Take My Breathe Away" cover made me cringe.

I wouldn't mind double-dipping DOBW, there has to be better prints than the Media Asia one used by Kino.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 14 Aug 2006, 17:33

EvaUnit02 wrote:ATGB was mind-numblingly average and SO clearly made "before WKW became WKW". Makes me appreciate DOBW a whole lot more.

Exactly and exactly.

EvaUnit02 wrote:I wouldn't mind double-dipping DOBW, there has to be better prints than the Media Asia one used by Kino.

I'm hoping Tartan release the new commentary version separately then I'll pick that one up.

What have you got left? Ashes of Time I guess. If you can bare the HK DVD or the cut Frenchie.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 14 Aug 2006, 18:25

The reasons that i like Days of Being Wild are numerous, but it isnt because it was WKW's breakthrough. That's not even a reason I believe.

One of the reasons for me liking it so much is because it's so fucking deep. Especially Leslie's character.
Eva calls him a prick, but why? I guess many feel that way after seeing the movie for the first time. But watch it a couple more times and you'll understand he's not.
He's in a way playing 'the perfect guy' for women. He's sexy, honest, makes the right and strong decisions, etc. It's what most woman SAY they want in a guy.

But he doesnt 'trust' women when it comes to love and a relationship, as he was left by his real mom when he was a little boy, and the woman who takes care of him doesnt seem to know how to have a steady relationship. So growing up he was left, plus his only female rolemodel was a slut. Which makes you understand why a; he doesnt want a steady relationship, and b; why he breaks up with women when he knows he cant offer them what they are looking for, so when he notices he isnt good enough for them. He realizes this before they do, and no matter if they do or dont agree with him, he already makes the right decision for THEIR best interest. He's doing the right thing, even though at first you think he's a selfish asshole, when you watch the movie more often, you can see he's anything BUT a selfish asshole. he puts the best interest of these women before his own interests (although he's a bit blunt about making them know it's over).
But you can really tell in his acting and in those little moments when the girls tell him certain stuff, that he loves them and that he's sad it's over, even though he doesnt show it to them. It's in his eyes. It's pretty clear when Carina gets on her knees to clean his appartment, then offers to take him out to the cinema.

Days of Being Wild is such a perfect character-study. And Leslie is absolutely perfect in his role. But it really does take several viewings to 'get' it, and even then it keeps being interesting. It's just awesome in every department: the acting by most of the cast if good to great (Andy Lau is ok-ish, not all that good tbh... and neither is Jacky Cheung but he has a small role), cinematography and sound are excellent...

In Happy Together Leslie IS a selfish prick, but it's about 2 lovers who are just not right for eachother. They love eachother, but their personalities are too conflicting to ever make it work. One is looking for a steady relationship with 1 person, while the other wants to go out and fuck everything he sees, not realizing it's hurting his partner, and/or just not caring.
Again, I feel it's a great movie. I like DOBW much more... but Happy Together is also in the 'great' category.

Obviously, not everyone will care enough about these movies to even consider watching them multiple times.
I've seen DOBW over a 100 times now I believe... but the last time I saw it is a couple of years ago, as I'm waiting for a good DVD release.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 14 Aug 2006, 22:32

Yi: TL;DR.

bradavon wrote:What have you got left? Ashes of Time I guess. If you can bare the HK DVD or the cut Frenchie.

Yup. I'm not bothering with AoT until there's a decent DVD of the proper cut, which will be a long wait probably.

BTW Brad, maybe you should update the thread's initial post to mention the AoT Frenchy disc?

I'm hoping Tartan release the new commentary version separately then I'll pick that one up.

Me too. I'm wondering why Chris Doyle recorded a commentary for ATGB? He had zilch to do with that film. If anyone they should've brought in Andrew Lau, who was the actual D.P. on that film.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 14 Aug 2006, 23:19

maybe you should update the thread's initial post to mention the AoT Frenchy disc

I don't think that disc is even worth mentioning.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Aug 2006, 19:16

Agreed 20 minutes of cuts isn't on but believe me I'd rather own it than the atrocious HK DVD. I managed to sit through it but everything is such a disaster. It definitely made the film even harder to follow than it should.

EvaUnit02 wrote:BTW Brad, maybe you should update the thread's initial post to mention the AoT Frenchy disc?

Oh yeah. I'd forgotten all about the lengthy first post. I'll update it now.

Me too. I'm wondering why Chris Doyle recorded a commentary for ATGB? He had zilch to do with that film. If anyone they should've brought in Andrew Lau, who was the actual D.P. on that film.

I thought he shot part of it, no?

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 15 Aug 2006, 22:02

bradavon wrote:I thought he shot part of it, no?

Got any links? I can't find reference to Doyle being involved in ATGB.

It's worth noting that the HK release of Eros is interlaced. (source). Also I can confirm that the ATGB, DOBW, FA & HT discs in the Kino boxset are progressive (haven't bothered with the CE Miramax disc yet).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Aug 2006, 20:44

Sorry no. I just read it somewhere. I could be wrong.

I wonder how Eros R1 compares, probably better but much less extras.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 16 Aug 2006, 20:59

Andrew Lau was the DP for Infernal Affairs which some people credit Doyle for even though by most accounts he did next to nothing on. You might be thinking of that. Or you might just be thick. Dunno.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Aug 2006, 21:07

Thick

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 17 Aug 2006, 00:59

bradavon wrote:Sorry no. I just read it somewhere. I could be wrong.

I wonder how Eros R1 compares, probably better but much less extras.

The front page hasn't been updated with the interlaced/progressive statuses yet.

Also worth noting that the 2046 R0HK from MeiAh is an interlaced abortion of a transfer.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 17 Aug 2006, 03:34

Did anyone else notice the large amount of material that ATGB "lifted" directly from Mean Streets? I mean c'mon the Jacky Cheung, Andy Lau and Maggie Cheung characters were almost exact duplicates of the DeNiro, Keitel and Amy Robinson counterparts.

I doubt I'll bother watching ATGB again, it'll be stored away in my mental dungeon with (for example) ABT3 of "average films not worth revisiting".

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 17 Aug 2006, 23:17

Yes I noticed exactly the same thing. I read it was an inspiration.

The front page hasn't been updated with the interlaced/progressive statuses yet.

Sorry boss. I'll update it now.

Also worth noting that the 2046 R0HK from MeiAh is an interlaced abortion of a transfer.

There's no recommendation you get that one.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 21 Aug 2006, 19:02

http://adg.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=1251

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 21 Aug 2006, 21:33

Thanks Lourdes. That really is exciting news.

I'm not sure I'll bother though as I'm pretty much done with these films. Unless a decent Ashes of Time comes of course (STILL no word). That said I see HK DVDs are coming too so they should be equal but 50% less. I may get those but that's just a maybe.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 21 Aug 2006, 21:33

If you are patient, there will also be Hong Kong DVDs released using these new HD masters (similar to the Happy Together DVD released earlier this year).

What the stupidly expensive LE that no one bothered thing? I hope not.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 21 Aug 2006, 23:05

bradavon wrote:
If you are patient, there will also be Hong Kong DVDs released using these new HD masters (similar to the Happy Together DVD released earlier this year).
What the stupidly expensive LE that no one bothered thing? I hope not.

They may package CE with expired tins of pineapples and Tony Leung's toy airplane.