Seven Samurai - 3 Disc Edition - 5/9/2006

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 17 Jun 2006, 23:35

I could fit Seven Samurai on a single DVD-5 with no visible quality loss (actually, I just did).
So, 3 DVD-9's ? No way.

Black and White is extremely easy to encode (provided you've got good authoring equipment).

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 17 Jun 2006, 23:58

Yes but Criterions other B+W films are a lot bigger than one dvd layer

compression in the end is still compression, you may not see much of it when you do it yourself, but others may. I ussually can tell when someones compressed a dvd, even a fraction, esspecially when I pause it.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 18 Jun 2006, 01:05

romerojpg wrote:At leats they wont waste time on DTS

That'll upset Brad.

memetic · Post by **memetic** » 18 Jun 2006, 02:13

Tom2681 wrote:I could fit Seven Samurai on a single DVD-5 with no visible quality loss (actually, I just did).
So, 3 DVD-9's ? No way.

I'm a bit doubtful that there'd be "no visible quality loss". Doing a quick calculation... DVD-5 with one video track (206 mins long) and one audio track at 224kbit/s (which is the most common audio rate on DVDs) gives a 2-pass average of 2.8Mb/s. With that rate I'd expect extreme softness and frequent pixelation. It'd probably be watchable but I'd imagine quality loss would be quite visible, even for a really efficient encoder. The whole last section of the film is in the rain which would play havoc with any encoder. That'd surely be pixelating all over the shop.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 Jun 2006, 08:37

Wasnt the 1998 Criterion transfer from a laserdisc or something?

jimmyscab · Post by **jimmyscab** » 18 Jun 2006, 09:11

I have the 1998 Criterion, the transfer is pretty poor.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 Jun 2006, 10:34

Yes, when compared with today's transfers.
When I say 1998 I meant the first Criterion before this forthcoming one.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 18 Jun 2006, 12:37

grim_tales wrote:Wasnt the 1998 Criterion transfer from a laserdisc

Indeed it was. Criterion's very first DVD from back in 1997 or 98 IIRC. For a so called "label of assured top quality" they had no problem releasing shitty transfers directly ported from laserdiscs in those early days.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 18 Jun 2006, 12:56

Hopefully Criterion are acctyally making HD transfers of these films while they are restoring them.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 Jun 2006, 13:38

Yeah Eva but to be fair it was a VERY early DVD.
Yeah Romero the transfer of SS is supposed to be a new HD, restored transfer.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 18 Jun 2006, 16:27

Agreed there is no way Tom can fit that on a DVD-5 with trouble. A quick glance I suspect it will look decent but over the course of 204 minutes (or whatever it is) a quick glance will soon turn into obvious flaws.

If it turns out to be spread over 3 discs then I'll get the Madman R4 there is no way I'm getting up twice during one film but as Romero says it's sooo unlikely to be split on to 3 discs that would be insanely stupid.

@ Romero: I'm sure there are some 5 hour films spread over 3 discs from those European directors of the 60s/70s/80s but then again the 5 hour Infernal Affairs cut was squeezed on to two DVD-9s.

thelostdragon wrote:You see, "Seven Samurai" has the advantage of being a black & white-film, which saves a lot of information and hence disc space.

I don't think this is true LD.

EvaUnit02 wrote:
romerojpg wrote:At leats they wont waste time on DTS
That'll upset Brad.

. Not in this case it won't. Yes I still prefer the option of choosing for myself BUT I'm bound to opt for the Mono anyway as it's such an old film with nothing to work with for the surrounds, oh and it's B&W too.

I do like action flicks to get a 5.1 remix though (from the 80's onwards).

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 18 Jun 2006, 16:35

Its one film where mono for me acctually works better than I could ever imagine, sadly its hard for my set up to get mono from 1 speaker at times, stereo of some sort may be an option.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 18 Jun 2006, 22:37

bradavon wrote:
thelostdragon wrote:You see, "Seven Samurai" has the advantage of being a black & white-film, which saves a lot of information and hence disc space.
I don't think this is true LD.

Well, then try to put any part of the "Lord of the Rings"-trilogy on a DVD-5 and then put "Seven Samurai" on a DVD-5. Even though SS is in 4:3, it looks less compressed than LotR. Tom, can you please support my opinion here.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 18 Jun 2006, 22:51

Tom, can you please support my opinion here.

Done !

I watched my single-layer copy of Seven Samurai last night. No visible quality loss, even on a 100" screen (Seven Samurai has lots of easy-to-encode non-moving shots as well). There's some minor macro-blocking issues in grainy shots but that's it.

Black and White + Static shots = Easy to compress.
Colour + Lots of detail + Moving shots = Hard to compress.

The only problem is the multiple soundtracks.
Return of The King could easily fit on a single DVD-9 if it didn't have audio commentaries.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 19 Jun 2006, 18:53

I didn't know that... interesting....

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 19 Jun 2006, 18:58

Well it would be if Seeven Samurai Criterion was a great tamnsfer, it isnt. If it was a new, maxed out bit rate transfer, you would notice it far, far more. Try it with a Criterion film which looks stunning and fills the dvd.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Jun 2006, 19:51

Tom2681 wrote:Return of The King could easily fit on a single DVD-9 if it didn't have audio commentaries.

Hmm I'm not sure I agree. I do dislike it when films gets split JUST because of DTS though. As in Seven Swords and Titanic.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Jun 2006, 19:52

Exactly and as Memetic points out 2.8Mb/s bit-rate is very low.

Tom2681 wrote:Return of The King could easily fit on a single DVD-9 if it didn't have audio commentaries.

Hmm I'm not sure I agree. I do dislike it when films gets split JUST because of DTS though. As in Seven Swords and Titanic.

Agreed that lots of fast moving shots (i.e - LOTR) are much harder to compress.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 19 Jun 2006, 20:36

Return of The King doesnt fit onto one, I tried, the other 2 do mind you

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 20 Jun 2006, 05:53

romerojpg wrote:Really no way it will be over 3 dvds I bet a poo load of cash on that one.

Agreed. There's no way in hell that'll be spread over 3 discs.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 26 Jun 2006, 11:41

News about the new Criterion.

dvdbeaver wrote:"Seven Samurai is presented in its original aspect ratio of 1.33:1. The picture has been slightly window-boxed to ensure that the maximum image is visible on all monitors."

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 26 Jun 2006, 11:58

Window-boxed ??
For what ? Overscan ? F*ck it !! :x

I'm glad I bought the korean edition.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 26 Jun 2006, 17:26

I dont exactly understand that, explain it to me exacty. As from what I can tell its going to be very odd looking with a box around the entire image. If thats right?

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 26 Jun 2006, 18:48

Aye I think it's because when you blow up an image on some screens (TV/projector?), you usually lose some image at the sides.

But this way, you get the full image no matter what. But you also get a wee border.

It doesn't "border" me that much tbh (hohoho).

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 26 Jun 2006, 18:52

Terrible....

What happened to you man? You used to be much funnier...