Mark & LD play P.Pong over the Existence of an Afterlife

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 07 Jun 2006, 17:06

Mark & LD play Ping Pong over the Existence of an Afterlife here. Because they're polluting the funny thread.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 07 Jun 2006, 21:16

I dunno man... watching them argue is kinda funny.

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 07 Jun 2006, 22:13

No it isn't. It's tedious. :shock:

Their argument could go on for THOUSANDS of years. Battles could be waged over religious beliefs. Millions of innocent lives lost. And in the end, would it all be settled? No.

Oh, wait. That's called the history of the world as we know it.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 07 Jun 2006, 23:14

Yup its very, very, very pointless indeed. Too many people every year get hurt by this talk, so its best to just leave it and not kill over it, as its pointless.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 07 Jun 2006, 23:28

It doesnt matter fi there's life after death: If there is, great! If there isnt: you wont be dissapointed or whatever cause ehmmm... you're DEAD.

Personally I dont think there is anything after death. I feel it's just something that wa smade up to comfort people who had just lost someone. It's easier to cope with a tragic loss of a loved one, by thinking he/she has gone on to a better place. It's also nice for the person dying to think that death won't be the end of everything.

It's a bit of a depressing subject I guess. Personally I'm not worried what will happen to ME after I die, but what will happen to my girlfriend who I would leave behind. That's much more distressing to me then any talk of an afterlife or whatever.

On the other hand, there have been more then enough accounts of dead people 'communicating in one way or another' with 'the living world'.
So who knows? Nobody knows.

You can BELIEVE, but believing isnt KNOWING. However, I dont mind when others believe in different things then I do. Someone wants to believe in God? Great, just dont use it to hurt other people or think less of people that don't share those beliefs. Use that religion to become a better person, instead of becoming narrowminded and stubborn.
Personally, I'm an atheist. I dont believe in a God or whatever. I know many people who do believe in a God 'hate' atheists (only 4% in the world calls themself Atheist I read somewhere), which is actually even more reason for me to think negative about some religious people...

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 07 Jun 2006, 23:37

depends how you look at it really, i mean EVERYTHING is matter and energy, these are the building blocks of the universe (theres also 80% dark matter that we cant see but thats irrelevant) neither of these can be destroyed, so think about it, your body is matter, your conciousness, thoughts, etc are energy...so tell me how these can be destroyed? they are reincarnated into a new form. even science admits that everything is matter and energy and that this cant be destroyed, only transferred...so in that form one is reincarnated if you think about it, cuz your matter is never really destroyed and your conciousness and thoughts are neither...sooo where does that leave you hmm?

just a thought, (yes i have basic knowledge and understanding of quantum physics.... seriously :mrgreen: )

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 08 Jun 2006, 00:11

the68monkey wrote:Oh, wait. That's called the history of the world as we know it.

Quite astute.

I think that this topic (and several more like it, going back to the old BnB forums) have, and always, will generate quite heated 'debate', with the net result being that nothing changes. I only got heavily involved with this kinda thing once, back in the day; never again. I come to this forum to have a little fun, throw in the occasional bad-taste joke and talk a little nonsense. Existential matters haven't been resolved by better people than you or I and never will. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try, but once one gets to this kinda stage, it really is better to leave it be.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Jun 2006, 02:24

I'm not really arguing about whether there is life after death, the subject actually doesn't interest me because I happen to think there isn't, merely a technicality in that LD refuses point blank to admit that he doesn't know if there is an afterlife. No one does. He keeps talking about belief. But belief isn't fact or knowledge and never will be. I expected LD to say "I believe strongly in an afterlife, but of course I can't prove one exists", but, lol, no, he won't, insisting black is white, and I guess, I've become like a puppy with a stick between it's teeth. I think our debate is bothering you guys more than LD and I who do this sort of thing all the time.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 08 Jun 2006, 09:59

while this topic is on-going can i throw in a shameless plug for the paranormal group of which i'm an investigator

http://www.northwestspiritseekers.co.uk/index.html

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 08 Jun 2006, 12:06

So do you have equipment to let you see the Ecktoplasm trails?

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 08 Jun 2006, 14:26

Markgway wrote:I expected LD to say "I believe strongly in an afterlife, but of course I can't prove one exists", but, lol, no, he won't, insisting black is white, and I guess, I've become like a puppy with a stick between it's teeth. I think our debate is bothering you guys more than LD and I who do this sort of thing all the time.

Mark, if it is that what you wanted to hear, ok, I'm gonna say it. I cannot prove the existance of an afterlife. But only not to someone who doesn't believe in it. Because the Qur'an is a proof to me and all Muslims. Muslims believe that it holds the unspoken words of God and God talks of an afterlife in either heaven or hell in it.

He keeps talking about belief. But belief isn't fact or knowledge and never will be.

Mark it is the same situation as before again. And it is never going to end until you accept that there are people who think differently, whether you like it or not. Whether you find it logical or not. Whether you think it is common sense or not.

As usual my answer: Mark keeps talking about knowledge. But knowledge isn't belief or conviction and never will be.

Mark, if you take a look our two opinions, completely freeing your mind, not knowing anything... let's say you're a machine, wouldn't you just simply notice that both sides strongly represent an opinion in which they believe? It doesn't matter who is wrong or right. I accept the fact that you have a different opinion on this. It might sound 'outrageous' (

) to me, but the fact that you represent this opinion is really fine with me as long as you don't force it on me.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Jun 2006, 14:53

thelostdragon wrote:Mark, if it is that what you wanted to hear, ok, I'm gonna say it. I cannot prove the existance of an afterlife. But only not to someone who doesn't believe in it. Because the Qur'an is a proof to me and all Muslims. Muslims believe that it holds the unspoken words of God and God talks of an afterlife in either heaven or hell in it.

No point you saying it if you don't mean it...

That's a bit of a cheat to invoke the Qur'an (just how many ways are there to spell this?) because at the end of the day it was written by very much alive humans and stems back to whether or not you BELIEVE it contains the word of God. But nice try... 8)

Mark it is the same situation as before again. And it is never going to end until you accept that there are people who think differently, whether you like it or not. Whether you find it logical or not. Whether you think it is common sense or not.

I'm only talking in fact. I'm not arguing with you as to whether there is or isn't an afterlife as I don't know. Maybe there is...? Maybe not? I'm only debating the proof of an afterlife of which there's none.

As usual my answer: Mark keeps talking about knowledge. But knowledge isn't belief or conviction and never will be.

Because knowledge is more significant that belief and conviction which is unsubstanciated and can be based on long perpetuated falsehoods.

Mark, if you take a look our two opinions

Sorry, can I stop you there... see mine isn't an opinion. It's a fact. There is no documented proof of an afterlife. Yours is an opinion based on a religious book written a couple thousand years ago none of which can't be substanciated no matter how much one believes it's word.

completely freeing your mind, not knowing anything... let's say you're a machine, wouldn't you just simply notice that both sides strongly represent an opinion in which they believe?

Right, believe. Which you're entitled to do. I'm not denying you that. I'm not saying you shouldn't believe. It's a nice thought and I wish I did myself, because it's a helluva a lot better than the alternative. But even if I did believe myself, that doesn't make it fact.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 08 Jun 2006, 15:06

Markgway wrote:
thelostdragon wrote:Mark, if it is that what you wanted to hear, ok, I'm gonna say it. I cannot prove the existance of an afterlife. But only not to someone who doesn't believe in it. Because the Qur'an is a proof to me and all Muslims. Muslims believe that it holds the unspoken words of God and God talks of an afterlife in either heaven or hell in it.
No point you saying it if you don't mean it...

That's a bit of a cheat to invoke the Qur'an (just how many ways are there to spell this?) because at the end of the day it was written by very much alive humans and stems back to whether or not you BELIEVE it contains the word of God. But nice try... 8)

Mark, it's like when your girlfriend or your mom or who-ever, a person that you trust 100%, tells you he did something, or didnt something. You would take that statement as FACT, because you TRUST and BELIEVE in that person unconditionally. There's no way in your mind that would make you think he/she tells anything but the truth. There's no evidence, but you base your faith in that trust that he/she is 100% honest.

That's how religious people think about their holy book I guess...

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 08 Jun 2006, 15:11

LOL! @ mark,

LD cant win here, he tells you what you want to hear and you still dont accept it, drop the subject ok, there is no 100% fact that the after life doesnt exist and no 100% fact that it does so saying that "mine isnt nad opinion its a fact" isnt warranted becuase the fact there is no proof is not fact, it just means that htey havent come to a conclusion yet, especially as there is much debate about the afterlife from scientists, spritirualists, quantum phsycisists, medics, relious people etc. so actually stating that your opinion is fact is well bollocks...

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Jun 2006, 15:29

Yi-Long wrote:Mark, it's like when your girlfriend or your mom or who-ever, a person that you trust 100%, tells you he did something, or didnt something. You would take that statement as FACT, because you TRUST and BELIEVE in that person unconditionally. There's no way in your mind that would make you think he/she tells anything but the truth. There's no evidence, but you base your faith in that trust that he/she is 100% honest.
That's how religious people think about their holy book I guess...

No, I wouldn't take it as fact. I would strongly believe it as I trust that person. But that doesn't make it fact, even though it might be.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 08 Jun 2006, 15:33

Markgway wrote:
Yi-Long wrote:Mark, it's like when your girlfriend or your mom or who-ever, a person that you trust 100%, tells you he did something, or didnt something. You would take that statement as FACT, because you TRUST and BELIEVE in that person unconditionally. There's no way in your mind that would make you think he/she tells anything but the truth. There's no evidence, but you base your faith in that trust that he/she is 100% honest.
That's how religious people think about their holy book I guess...
No, I wouldn't take it as fact. I would strongly believe it as I trust that person. But that doesn't make it fact, even though it might be.

You wouldnt TAKE it as fact, but many people WOULD.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Jun 2006, 15:34

Shen wrote:LOL! @ mark, LD cant win here, he tells you what you want to hear and you still dont accept it, drop the subject ok, there is no 100% fact that the after life doesnt exist and no 100% fact that it does so saying that "mine isnt nad opinion its a fact" isnt warranted becuase the fact there is no proof is not fact, it just means that htey havent come to a conclusion yet, especially as there is much debate about the afterlife from scientists, spritirualists, quantum phsycisists, medics, relious people etc. so actually stating that your opinion is fact is well bollocks...

Lots of debate but no conclusion, therefore no proven fact. All I'm saying is that and nothing more. Whether the afterlife actually does exist is neither here nor there, only the lack of proof is relevant.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Jun 2006, 15:34

Yi-Long wrote:You wouldnt TAKE it as fact, but many people WOULD.

And they'd be wrong..........

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 08 Jun 2006, 15:50

so no proof doesnt make if fact therefore your OPINION that there is no afterlife is not a fact! thats what i was saying sheesh, theres not proof of aliens existing but the probablity of them not is amaglizly low, considering one in every 100 planets is capable of supporting life (IIRC) and there are an estimated thousands of glaxies containing millions if not billions of planets, only on this vibrational level, if you take into to account the fact hat we only have 20% visual accuity, at most, theres another 80% of what is called "dark matter" that we cant see which throws in billions and billions more possibilities for life, and then depending on your opinion you take in the different vibrational frequencies and dimesnions...but yet there is no proof that they exist, ony people accounts of possible abductions and such...so the fact there is no proof of an afterlife, despite say the theory of hypnosis where people have recalled accurate lives from hundreds of yeras ago, began speaking foregin languages that they have no prior knowledge of, deja vu, dead commuinitcations, apparitions of dead people, out of body experiences and such, the idea that therre is no proof is actually flawed, only that there is no concrete proof, but still skeptical proof, which is still proof...

but yeah im out of here becuase i really cant be arsed arguing with you again, besides this is yours and LD's argument...i mean discussion...

HOWEVER: thats not to say that you are wrong, it maybe so that there isnt an afterlife, but hey what does it matter, you find out when you die, if there is...great! if theres not well you wont really know much about it will you...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Jun 2006, 16:00

To see Mark and LD's rant in all it's glory click here, sorry if I've split it incorrectly but such is life:

https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... php?t=2053

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Jun 2006, 16:06

Shen wrote:so no proof doesnt make if fact therefore your OPINION that there is no afterlife is not a fact!

I never said it was "fact" that there's no afterlife. Only fact that it hasn't been proven there is one. What's so hard to understand? Am I speaking Chinese?

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 08 Jun 2006, 16:27

see mine isn't an opinion. It's a fact.

there IS documented proof, however unconrete, there is documented proof....so yea thats what i was getting at

now can you please take a look at my final satement

but yeah im out of here becuase i really cant be arsed arguing with you again

thank you...

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 08 Jun 2006, 22:10

On a similar topic, has anyone seen the Hirokazu Koreeda film, Afterlife?

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 09 Jun 2006, 01:41

That's a beautiful film! I loved it so much that I gave it away to somebody who I really wanted to see it.

Unrealnils · Post by **Unrealnils** » 09 Jun 2006, 01:43

Kurgan wrote:
the68monkey wrote:Oh, wait. That's called the history of the world as we know it.
Quite astute.

I think that this topic (and several more like it, going back to the old BnB forums) have, and always, will generate quite heated 'debate', with the net result being that nothing changes. I only got heavily involved with this kinda thing once, back in the day; never again. I come to this forum to have a little fun, throw in the occasional bad-taste joke and talk a little nonsense. Existential matters haven't been resolved by better people than you or I and never will. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try, but once one gets to this kinda stage, it really is better to leave it be.

Agreed

Kurgen for president