Road to Guantanamo - Nominated for the Golden Bear

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 15 Feb 2006, 00:20

This was running yesterday at the Berlin Film Festival. Here is the IMDB plot outline:

Part drama, part documentary, The Road to Guantánamo focuses on the Tipton Three, a trio of British Muslims who were held in Guantanamo Bay for two years until they were released without charge.
Source: IMDB

To present day, the 500-plus detainees are ALL Muslims and held there without a fair trial or the right to consult a lawyer. The three men who were held there are British Muslims, who went to Afghanistan where they were attacked and arrested by US troops. Now that they were released after two years of imprisonment, who will give them back the 2 years they have lost of their life. Two years of freedom. Two years of torture.

From Wikipedia:
The use of Guantánamo Bay as a military prison and torture center [5] has been controversial among human rights organizations concerned about reports of the treatment of detainees. Critics of U.S. detainment policies also question the propriety of using an offshore prison, and the unclear legal status of its detainees (neither prisoners of war, nor tried as common criminals). It is clear, however, that the U.S. kidnappings and treatment of prisoners violates the international law and United Nations Convention Against Torture, which also U.S. has ratified. Critics of protesting organizations argue that constitutional rights have never been afforded for prisoners of war or non-U.S. citizens, however they omit the protections guaranteed by international treaties, among other things, against torture. These treaties are the "Supreme Law of the Land" through the U.S. constitution and also cover the treatment of prisoners in black sites and exported and outsourced torture.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 15 Feb 2006, 00:48

Obviously, I voted no.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 15 Feb 2006, 12:26

nope they shouldnt exist

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Feb 2006, 12:54

Are you sure ALL the detainees are Muslims? That just strikes me as odd.

I'd say no to answer your question directly but would say we can't do the opposite and release them all. There should be a maximum 3 month sentence unless evidence and a trial can be brought.

That said I can only think of one reason to put people in the way the photo does above. To humiliate them. The American government did it with the atom bomb (dropping it on civilian targets) and they're doing it again but this time more subtly.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Feb 2006, 12:55

I've moved this to Debate. LMK if you disagree.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 15 Feb 2006, 13:08

Yes but your forgetting the camps set up in Iraq (and other countries) which did pretty much the same thing, america is doing this on our TV screen, Iqaq and other countries did it behind everyones backs and a lot more than 500 people were subjected to torture and shit like that over years.

Its a hard thing to say really, no if they are innocent they all should be let out right now and legal action taken agasint then americans riight now!

but if there is a reason they are keeping them, which they wont tell us for some reason? then again they may need to be let out. The thing is we dont know the specifics sadly and none of us can really say too much as some of them inside the prison could be in for a good reason, sadly we dont know that so it does look like they are all innocent

so its ahard thing to do anything about.

Innocent until proven guilty, but if they have evidence which if they told us about would threaten lives and undercover opratives etc.. then its a big harder to say yes just go ahead and let them out. But we dont know the full facts, and probibly never will

its a mess basically.

I wont even vote for that reason, we dont know the full story and until we do its imposible for anyone to judge this situation, but at the moment it does look like America is a scumbag bunch of sick sons of haws.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 15 Feb 2006, 18:22

Guantanamo Bay as is shouldn't be necessary.

If the government has evidence: charge the suspects; put them on trial; get a verdict.

If guilty: straight back to jail; if not: set them free.

There's no reason why this cannot be done within a matter of months.

If evidence presents a security risk (which I'm sure it would) then hold the proceedings behind closed doors so that only a panel of senior judges hear the testimony. It could even be done on camera to preserve anonimity. It's paramount that evidence be heard. I understand that many detainees are dangerous, and a large proportion guilty of something, but locking up everyone without access to a lawyer or charges is wrong. I couldn't care if the Americans spent now until doomsday torturing the real terrorists; it's the innocent (minority?) I'm concerned about.

It doesn't need to be this way.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 15 Feb 2006, 18:55

Well it doesnt need to be anyway if they didnt try to kill people like little children.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 15 Feb 2006, 19:51

romerojpg wrote:Well it doesnt need to be anyway if they didnt try to kill people like little children.

The USA (plus it's companions) is killing just as many children, both directly as indirectly.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Feb 2006, 20:35

romerojpg wrote:Yes but your forgetting the camps set up in Iraq (and other countries) which did pretty much the same thing, america is doing this on our TV screen, Iqaq and other countries did it behind everyones backs and a lot more than 500 people were subjected to torture and shit like that over years.

A: Iraq wasn't/isn't a democracy
B: If someone hit you does that make you big to hit them back?

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 15 Feb 2006, 22:49

romerojpg wrote:Yes but your forgetting the camps set up in Iraq (and other countries) which did pretty much the same thing, america is doing this on our TV screen, Iqaq and other countries did it behind everyones backs and a lot more than 500 people were subjected to torture and shit like that over years.

What kind of an excuse is that for a country like the USA which preaches democracy to the world and lectures people about civilised communities etc.? What kind of an excuse is this for a country that takes itself as the ole model for other countries.

Besides:

PRESIDENT BUSH: Our country is at war, and our government has the obligation to protect the American people. The executive branch has the obligation to protect the American people; the legislative branch has the obligation to protect the American people. And we are aggressively doing that. We are finding terrorists and bringing them to justice. We are gathering information about where the terrorists may be hiding. We are trying to disrupt their plots and plans. Anything we do to that effort, to that end, in this effort, any activity we conduct, is within the law. We do not torture.
Source: The White House's Official Website

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 15 Feb 2006, 23:10

romerojpg wrote:Yes but your forgetting the camps set up in Iraq (and other countries) which did pretty much the same thing, america is doing this on our TV screen, Iqaq and other countries did it behind everyones backs and a lot more than 500 people were subjected to torture and shit like that over years.

Yes... we should all be gratefull that the USA is decent enough to do it's torturing out in the open, instead of sneakily behind everyone's back

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 15 Feb 2006, 23:42

And also one just has to admit... nobody really cared for people tortured under Saddam's reign. The tortures were reported about in Middle Eastern newspapers, but why would anybody care back then to publish about it in the West?

In 2002 there was a war going on in Cote d'Ivoire? Or how about Sudan in 2003 and until now? Or how about the armed conflicts in Thailand that started in 2004? Or the wars in 2003 that started in Laos and in the Union of Myanmar? I'm sure some of the mentioned countries' names sound to some people as some sort of a dish. What have you heard about the Turkish/Kurdistan war that has begun again in 2004 and is still going on? Or the war in Yemen?

The list goes on and on, but unless it isn't the USA that is attacking these countries, nobody will ever care or hear about these conflicts. And to be honest, I have only heard of some of them (the Myanmar war to be exact), because I happen to work at the Deutsche Welle's section for newsbroadcast via radio and internet. People get tortured there as well. But it's not like Joe Public in the West would care and that's why he shouldn't justify his country torturing people with the fact that it is done on the TV screen unlike 'them' who "did it behind everyones backs [...] over years.".

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 16 Feb 2006, 01:07

America is beyond everyone, they are so big, so powerfull and so guilty of shit that nothing will ever happen to them, ever. Unless someone nukes them first that is, which strangley is seeming more likley the older I get, as they just dont seem to give a shit as they are so powerfull.

The UK is fairly powerfull for such a small place, yet I dont like the place and dont really want to follow orders they give out. We get involved in things I definetaly dont want to be involved in, do I want UK troops in Iraq, afghanistan? not at all, do they want us? only when they need us, which is getting harder and harder to tell when they do and dont, they way people can act towards armies.

I think the thing is we can care all we like, personally I think its a joke it goes on anywhere in the world, Africa for instance is hell on earth, but really there is little, well in fact there is nothing I, or even you can do about it

thats the sad facts. In some small way we can do something to make people see what is going on and pass the word about these shitty events in life, but really I dont see power coming from the little people ever. The government (and hidden parts that we dont get to see) decide everything really, which putting it mildly is shit.

We can see images on TV all we like, in the end we can do nothing at all. I was angry at abuse in Iraq a long time ago, never mind now, but really the people who do these things are not normal people and really anyone who joins into an army must be mental in the brain in todays society. Hell they dont even get punished at all for doing torture etc.. they select a few peole and hang them out to dry, its all bollocks really.

I dont see an end to it ever in my lifetime, its only going to get far worse. One day we may find out why some of the Muslims locked up in Guantanamo Bay are there, until that day its just hard to say anything as they may be the worst of the worst and it would be nice to see why they are in that place and if they deserve that treatment at all. As I can think of many people who deserve torture and pain for the rest of their lives (Sadame and his evil henchmen).

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 16 Feb 2006, 01:20

bradavon wrote:B: If someone hit you does that make you big to hit them back?

Yes. 8)

I'm not Jesus. I don't turn the other cheek.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 16 Feb 2006, 01:22

I thought it was a trick question so I didnt answer. Only a fool wouldnt really, esspecially if you have the power to.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 16 Feb 2006, 01:40

romerojpg wrote:America is beyond everyone, they are so big, so powerfull and so guilty of shit that nothing will ever happen to them, ever.

That's the same way people used to think about the Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire.

One day we may find out why some of the Muslims locked up in Guantanamo Bay are there...

Well, I can tell you about at least three of them who were released without being sentenced for anything. Yet, they were tortured... for nothing. I think it's good they participated in the making of this film. Maybe it can at least change some people's attitudes towards the issue.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 16 Feb 2006, 01:47

Yes but america is so diverse and full of so many different people, american to me is so different if you go from state to state, certain states are a lot worse than others thats for sure. Shame the president is the spokesman for them all, as I am sure most americans hate that man. Tony Blair may be our spokesman, but to me he is a joke, like most people in front of the cameras, shame we are judged by his actions.

Its pees me off that the press gave up on this whole thing a long time agao, its just not front page news now sadly. They would rather talk about stars than topics which are killing people etc.. There are wars going on right now and I dont hear a word about them unless you look hard on the net, which is really bad.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 06 Mar 2006, 23:44

Just a heads up for people in the UK: Channel 4 will be showing this film this coming Thursday (9th March) at 9.00 pm. If you've not seen it, like myself, now's yer chance.

slasher13 · Post by **slasher13** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:13

So who watched it last night. I thought it was really well done, It was very sad and tragic IMO. I'm so surprised that any country can behave like this, If the US have got any evidence then get the prisoner to court and charge them. This type of prison shouldn't be allowed. If it was on the other foot, then no doubt the US would be p***ed and wanting to wage war.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:38

From what I've heard the film is pretty one-sided in its arguments and ignores much evidence to get across a sympathetic POV. That's just what I read.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:39

romerojpg wrote:America is beyond everyone, they are so big, so powerfull and so guilty of shit that nothing will ever happen to them, ever.

Yeah right. China is growing rapidly year by year, the GDP is now 10%.

America is the most powerful country now and will be for the foreseeable future but it's demise will come. The amount the country spends on oil etc . . . cannot be sustained forever.

I wouldn't be surprised if in 25+ years China becomes the next world Empire. The rate of monolingual people is dropping each year.

thelostdragon wrote:That's the same way people used to think about the Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire.

The British Empire too and that's less than 50 years old.

slasher13 · Post by **slasher13** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:16

Markgway wrote:From what I've heard the film is pretty one-sided in its arguments and ignores much evidence to get across a sympathetic POV. That's just what I read.

I wonder what evidence they had ignored, because if there was any evidence, then why the US convict them in a court of law?

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:50

i watched it also...

wasnt quite what i was expecting in terms of directing etc was thinking more of a real film lol

but it was interesting, very interesting indeed. and we're civilized people? pull the other one...

there was something about cats being wicked becuase htey kill and torture for pleasure without motive...what does that make us then?

iut was good they used the actual people (i think didnt they?) rather than actors to tell the tale, if they didnt scratch this remark from the records..

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 11 Mar 2006, 01:01

I'm convinced that one of the actual people played their own role; if they didn't then that was amazing casting to find such a good likeness.
It was filmed in a very similar style to Touching The Void, as in repeated cuts from the action in the prison to the real people giving their thoughts on that moment in time.
Shocking stuff, but then not surprising. Perhaps I'm just too cynical for my own good.

Bullets 'n' Babes

Road to Guantanamo - Nominated for the Golden Bear

Should law-violating prisons like the one at Guantanamo Bay exist?

Road to Guantanamo - Nominated for the Golden Bear