Ang's arrogance?

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Mar 2006, 12:59

From the IMDB:

"Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon director Ang Lee was devastated Brokeback Mountain lost out on the Best Picture Oscar to Crash, but insists he is still proud of the movie.

The director was disappointed that his film didn't take home the top honor and is baffled as to why it didn't win. He explains, "I would do exactly the same. I'm so proud of the movie. They (the Academy) didn't vote for it, I don't know (why)...I'm just glad the audience embraced it. It was a surprise (not winning), quite frankly."

Is it me or does that sound incredibly conceited?

I wasn't aware that the Academy were obliged to award movies just because the director thinks the should...

"In a decision that elicited considerable surprise but little praise, Oscar voters on Sunday selected Lionsgate's Crash as the best picture of 2005, passing over the favorite, Brokeback Mountain. David M. Halbfinger and David Carr commented in the New York Times that the movie academy "turned its back" on an "unflinching gay love story" and awarded the Oscar to "a moody kaleidoscope of racial confrontation in Los Angeles in which every character is at once sympathetic and repulsive." Tom Shales in the Washington Post wrote that the decision will no doubt produce arguments over "whether the Best Picture Oscar to Crash was really for the film's merit or just a cop-out by the Motion Picture Academy so it wouldn't have to give the prize to Brokeback Mountain." The Boston Globe film critic Ty Burr called the decision "one of the most stunning upsets in Oscar history." His colleague, Wesley Morris, wrote: "The memo from Hollywood seems clear enough. Better to reward the movie about people who clean our closets than the one about the men who live in them." And in a blistering commentary, Los Angeles Times critic Kenneth Turan excoriated the motion picture industry for its choice, claiming that despite the box office success and favorable publicity Brokeback had achieved (he did not mention the numerous awards from critics' organizations) "you could not take the pulse of the industry without realizing that this film made a number of people distinctly uncomfortable. ... In the privacy of the voting booth, as many political candidates who've led in polls only to lose elections have found out, people are free to act out the unspoken fears and unconscious prejudices that they would never breathe to another soul, or, likely, acknowledge to themselves. And at least this year, that acting out doomed Brokeback Mountain." Finally, Turan concluded that Hollywood "likes to pat itself on the back for the good it does in the world, but as Sunday night's ceremony proved, it is easier to congratulate yourself for a job well done in the past than to actually do that job in the present." The reaction was similar from overseas critics. On the Indian website Rediff.com, Aseem Chhabria wrote: "We will never know how many more Academy voters picked Crash over Brokeback. But this much is clear: While Crash is a fine and important film, in choosing Crash over Brokeback, the Academy members showed their conservative, safe and non-controversial side."

I'm sorry but I think racism is more relevant in 2006 that gay cowboys don't you? I mean, Crash IS an important film; damn, you'd think they were talking about Forest Gump. Maybe the Academy just felt that Crash was - gulp! - a better film. I know, it's a shocking thought...

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:05

its misquoted, or at least the comma's and spaces are in the wrong place. he was 'suprised' at how well it was recieved by the audience, 'they didn't vote for it, i don't know' was actually a response to the direct question 'any idea why you didn't win' and was said in the manner that he didn't really care, hence the comment after about how he was 'just glad the audience embraced it'

the media are evil and I WILL kill them all....

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:13

Well, they've certainly twisted his words.

I checked out Rotten Tomatoes and here are the critics scores for the best picture nominees:

Brokeback Mountain 86%
Capote 91%
Crash 77%
Good Night and Good Luck 94%
Munich 78%

So why would Brokeback be a runaway favourite if TWO of the nominess garned higher critical scores? Answer: because it's a "gay issue" movie. Interestingly, Crash scored the lowest among critics... hmm...

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:13

The 2006 Oscars were just another showcase of how many poor films recently came out of Hollywood.

BTW, where was "Lord of War"?

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:21

Yeah, but it's also because it's how people look at it from their political views.
"Ow great... ANOTHER racism movie!" or whatever.
Same thing with Munich. There were reporters going into that movie who had already decided that the movie carried the wrong message or whatever, so they'd be negative about it.

Personally, I can probably predict I wont care much about Capote. I saw some clips from it and it seemed like a TV-movie. You know, the sentimental real-life crap that's sometimes on.
And the Academy held up tradition by voting for an actor who decided to a; be gay, and b; talks funnily.
From the clips I've seen, I think Phoenix has done well in Walk the Line, as Johnny Cash, and from all accounts Terrence Howard did great as well...
Personally, I feel it would be easier to portray a guy like forrest gump, or any other 'strange' fella, then giving life to a REAL, 'normal' character.

About Brokeback Mountain: I'm not all that interested in it. I will wait a while till all the current oscar hype is gone, and then I'll check it out.
If I had to buy into the hype, I would have exposed myself to crap like Chicago and shit like that...

BTW... Clooney... he doesnt like that Ang Lee.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:25

Yi-Long wrote:BTW... Clooney... he doesnt like that Ang Lee.

Why?

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:29

No... it was a very funny post-show interview. I guess some reporter, maybe from China? Asked Clooney what he thought of Ang Lee, and he over-acted a bit, going :' I'll tell you something... I do not like that man! and he went on a bit'
It was very funny.
In most interviews Clooney is always very deadpan and funny, but to now also see him do more facial comedy (expressions and stuff) is great.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:33

thelostdragon wrote:BTW, where was "Lord of War"?

Where it belongs... in the recycle bin!

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:44

Oh, so he was joking... I see.

I like Clooney a lot. Can't wait to see "Syrianna".

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:46

gojensen wrote:
thelostdragon wrote:BTW, where was "Lord of War"?
Where it belongs... in the recycle bin!

You think? I thought it was absolutely great! I love it and will get the DVD upon its release date.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:46

Hmm.. I havent seen Brokeback yet so I cant comment (I will see it soon), everyone seems to come up with these conspiracy theories after the event - as you say Mark, maybe the Academy thought Crash was just a better film?!

Nothing wrong with that.
I thought the 2002 Best Picture winner A Beautiful Mind was rather manipulative, but it won Best Picture that year and thats that!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:54

I heard it got snubbed because the academy was conservative (effectively) at the story line. Typical American conservatives. I don't know if it's true.

Both Racism and Homophobia are issues which should be openly talked about.

I'm sorry but I think racism is more relevant in 2006 that gay cowboys don't you?

I disagree. The important part is talking openly about homophobia not the fact they were cowboys. That's a catalyst to discuss the issue.

Besides of most importance BBM is a much better film. Crash don't get me wrong is decent but BBM is in another league IMO.

Markgway wrote:Answer: because it's a "gay issue" movie.

And Crash is about the controversial issue of racism so your point doesn't mean much.

thelostdragon wrote:The 2006 Oscars were just another showcase of how many poor films recently came out of Hollywood.

That was harsh I wouldn't go that far.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:59

I agree about the first part Brad - its' not juat "gay cowboys" (ie not the fact that theyre cowboys) as Mark put it but racism and homophobia are both important. Its' not like BBM is set in the distant past (its' 1960's/1970's).

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 07 Mar 2006, 14:22

bradavon wrote:
thelostdragon wrote:The 2006 Oscars were just another showcase of how many poor films recently came out of Hollywood.
That was harsh I wouldn't go that far.

Why not? In my opinion there were only a couple of nominated films worth watching which are:

Batman Begins
Crash
Memoirs of a Geisha

Is Crash worth a "Best Film"-award? Hell no. Especially when I consider that I enjoyed watching "Batman Begins" a lot more than "Crash". "Crash"´was an OK film, but not one I'm getting on DVD.

I'm looking forward to watchng "Good Night and Good Luck" and "Syrianna" though as I'm a fan of George Clooney.

"Munich" was pants. I expected way more of Eric Bana and I hated to admit that the best actors in this film were the terrorists and their hostages during the actual terrorist operation. They did a really good job in my opinion.

"Darwin's Nightmare" is a great documentary and it deserved its nomination.

Oh and there was "Howl's Moving Castle".

I could live without the rest and "Munich" to be honest. I could even do without "Crash" if you ask me.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 07 Mar 2006, 14:39

I liked Batman, but it certainly had enough flaws in it that made me kinda dislike it at the same time.
I feel the only way batman can ever be done RIGHT, would be by CGI (Final Fantasty 7 style), written/based on a Frank Miller story, or those guys who did the kick ass animation series.

You liked Memoirs of a Geisha? I havent seen it yet, but I heard it was more style over subject, and they didnt stay true to the novel?
Not that I care, but I am affraid it will be just like Last Samurai: A very WESTERN look at how the East would have looked back then. Glamourised even.
I felt The Last Samurai was entertaining, but it didnt look very realistic.
And from what I've seen from Geisha, it seems to have that same bombastic, glossy style to it.

I thought King Kong was fantastic. It's a blockbuster, popcorn style movie, but done really really well. And old-skool great adventure flick.
I'm usually not a big fan of the big multimillion dollar special effects flicks, but this one delivered.
War of the Worlds also really delivered btw. I'm not sure if I would want it on DVD or anything, but when I saw it in the cinema I was very impressed...
Give me a King Kong and a War of the Worlds over a Capote any day of the week.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 07 Mar 2006, 14:41

BTW; WHERE WAS SIN CITY?

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 07 Mar 2006, 14:51

Yi-Long wrote:You liked Memoirs of a Geisha?

Yes, I liked it. But only because it was beautiful to look at. I agree to those people who told you that it was style over substance. However, the imagery was mind-blowing. I wouldn't compare it with "The Last Samurai" as it became my favourite recent Hollywood-film. It's true that it is historically incorrect, but it's the entertainment I care about and I was really moved by the film (except from the ending where Tom goes and sees the emperor [as if]).

Ken Watanabe was really good in "Geisha" although he should have had a bit more screen presence in my opinion.

Funny, isn't it? "Batman Begins", another Hollywood-film I really liked also features Ken Watanabe, lol.

And you're right Yi. Where's "Sin City"? I'm sure they couldn't cope with such a "violent" film.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Mar 2006, 15:11

Sin City?

It was over-stylised, nihilistic tosh.

If this had got nominated we'd really be in trouble.

And as much as I was entertained by Batman Begins... best picture? Surely some mistake??

:shock:

The point I was making earlier about Crash is that race is still a relevant issue in today's society as much as it ever was. But what's there left to say about homosexuality? Not a lot I would've thought... That's not me saying it isn't a good film... I haven't seen it so maybe it IS the best film? But it seems strange to me that it's controversial at all. Where's the burning issue in the "gay cowboy" issue movie? I'm sure only John Wayne would find this controversial... Racism affects society globally whereas I don't really care about the love lives of two men. But then it would sound equally dull if it were a traditional man and a woman love story. To cut my already long waffling short... is Brokeback Oscar worthy because it's a damn fine movie or because it's a damn fine gay movie? If it's the former then I have no complaints. But I get the feeling people expected it to win because it was somehow "daring" and "challenging". That alone - if true- is not a reason to give a film best picture. If controversy was all Crash had to offer I'd say the same thing about it.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Mar 2006, 15:35

But what's there left to say about homosexuality?

The fact it's still an issue and even illegal in many countries.

Did you see the Dispatches documentary on Evangelical Christianity last night? It's on the rise in the UK, which specifically says Homosexuality is wrong and you will go to hell. There is even one STATE school up north somewhere which teaches it's pupils the same thinking. The headmaster is an Evangelical Christian. They aren't given any choice, they are in the catchement area so MUST go to this school.

It was very worrying to say the least. Personally I'd move but I guess many can't. People still today get murdered for being gay. Don't get me wrong I partially agree but strongly disagree racism is more important.

sure only John Wayne would find this controversial...

We're lucky to live in a mostly homophobia free country but there are parts of the world and even parts of America where the subject is considered evil and at the very least an uncomfortable subject.

is Brokeback Oscar worthy because it's a damn fine movie or because it's a damn fine gay movie? If it's the former then I have no complaints. But I get the feeling people expected it to win because it was somehow "daring" and "challenging".

You're probably right but if:

A: It gets the subject talked about on a wider level then great
B: Regardless of the actual reason for it being nominated it's still a very, very good film. You should check it out.

If controversy was all Crash had to offer I'd say the same thing about it.

The thing is the very same reason (to use your argument) BBM has done well also applies to Crash. Crash partially fails for me for ramming the subject home. I knew racism was wrong before I sat down to watch the film thank you.

It was over-stylised, nihilistic tosh.

Agreed. Sin City is very overrated. It was enjoyable enough but far from outstanding. It was very much gratuitous violence in places.

Yi-Long wrote:You liked Memoirs of a Geisha? I havent seen it yet, but I heard it was more style over subject, and they didnt stay true to the novel?

To be fair you sound surprised as if both are a new thing?

Sure it's has many flaws but it's far from the turd you guys have been making out.

I'm 110% confident if the story was transplanted to say Brazil (obviously the story would be different) it would've have got considerably less backlash on this forum and others.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Mar 2006, 15:39

Brad said:

The thing is the very same reason (to use your argument) BBM has done well also applies to Crash. Crash partially fails for me for ramming the subject home. I knew racism was wrong before I sat down to watch the film thank you.

Yeah but I know homophobia and bigotry in all its' forms is also wrong before I've seen Brokeback (I'd like to check it our BTW).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Mar 2006, 15:43

I knew someone was going to bring that up. The major differences are:

A. In Crash it felt contrived to ram the point home to us. It did not in BBM.

B. Crash without Racism you have no film. BBM without the lead characters being gay you very much have a film. Crash is about racism, BBM ultimately is not about homosexuality. It's a love story first, homosexuality second.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Mar 2006, 15:49

BBM is just a "love Story" then, but the characters are 2 guys? Fair enough

Like "Happy Together" then?

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 07 Mar 2006, 16:05

I don't think homophobia is even near being over. I walk hand in hand with my girl always. From day one, to now, more then 5 years later. never heard a single comment from anyone about it. I bet if I'd been gay and would have done the same thing with a boyfriend, I would get comments nearly everyday from people I dont know.
Just because we all FEEL homosecuality is normal and should be accepted etc, doesnt mean everyone ACTS like it's normal yet.

About Brokeback Mountain: I'm gonna wait till the hype flies over, and then I'll see if I'll like it, and how it will be judged by others.
I think Happy Together was fantastisc, which is another movie not about gays, but love (and commitment, and people not being right for eachther, but still desperately needing eachother at the same time, etc etc) and so I cant help but feel " why was Happy Together never nominated for an Oscar or whatever?

LD: I'll check out geisha once it's on DVD and afoordable and let you know what I think. the Last Samurai, for me, is a 3-star movie I guess. The glossiness of it all, as well as the Hollywood ending, and obviously Cruise (mediocre actor) kinda ruined it for me. It's not a bad movie. hell, I'd even call it a good movie. But not great or classic cause it's flawed by the aformentioned criticisms.

Have you seen Shogun (series) yet? If you havent, you should check it out. It's very very good, and the male lead looks like a bit of dork at first sight, but he pleasantly surprised me with a very strong performance. Mifune is in it as well.

I havent seen Sin City yet. STill waiting for the uncut edition. But it's nr 60 on the all-time IMDB list. so should be very very good.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Mar 2006, 16:17

Interesting, I agree in a way Yi, what you said about our attitudes to male homosexuality reminded me of the bit in Heart of the Dragon when Jackie is walking down the street holding Sammo's hand and getting funny looks from people, and he has to keep telling everyone they're brothers.
OK that was 20 years ago but its still relatively recent.

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 07 Mar 2006, 16:54

Yi-Long wrote:Have you seen Shogun (series) yet? If you havent, you should check it out. It's very very good, and the male lead looks like a bit of dork at first sight, but he pleasantly surprised me with a very strong performance. Mifune is in it as well.

damnit, if only the dvddebate site was still active I could dig out my review of this excellant miniseries. well worth checking out as the documentaries that come with it are well worth it too!