School me on projectors.

[BiscLimpkit]

Hey, I was wondering if anyone could school me on projectors. I know nothing at the moment. Specific questions I want answered:

1. What are the major types of projectors available?
2. Which type is the best?
3. Do projectors produce better image quality than a TV, plasma, LCD?
4. I have a wall that's around 15' wide?
5. What projector would be the best for my wall?
6. How much do these things cost and why?

I'm not going to make any decisions now but it's something I wanna think about.

Thanks dudes.

PS: I'll also appreciate any other info you have.

[tom2681]

Working on it...

(watch this post)

OK, here goes:

1. What are the major types of projectors available?
-There's the Tri-Tube projector (also known as CRT). It's been around since the seventies. It produces razor-sharp picture, true blacks and has virtually no flaws. Unfortunately it's now extinct.
-There's the Mono-LCD projector. Very bad. Fortunately extinct.

-There's Tri-LCDs and Mono-DLPs. Both cheap(ish).
-There's Tri-DLP and D-Ila. Both perfect but too expensive ATM.

2. Which type is the best?
I've had a Tri-LCD projector (2002-2004) and a Mono-DLP projector (2005-Now). Both have pros and cons.
Tri-LCD:
+ Smooth picture.
- Screendoor effect (kinda like using a 19" monitor at 640x480 = you see all the pixels).
-Gray blacks (LCD technology is incapable of projecting true blacks).

Mono-DLP:
+ Vivid colours.
+ Reduced screendoor effect.
+ Deep Blacks.
- Possible rainbow effect (some people see a red/blue/green flash when they move their eyes / Very annoying to some people).
- Motion Dithering artefacts (Panning shots leave some kind of trail / kinda like on the old Universe DVDs).

3. Do projectors produce better image quality than a TV, plasma, LCD ?
Hard to say. Depends on: their native resolution, and the size of your screen.
A 1024x768 DLP projector will display a sharper image than a TV.
Colours will be better too.
As long as you don't exceed 100", you should be fine.

Remember though:
Bigger screen -> Lower Brightness.
Bigger screen -> Fading colours.

4. I have a wall that's around 15' wide ?
I guess a 240x180cm screen is not out of the question.
320x240cm might work too.

5. What projector would be the best for my wall ?
What size will your screen be ?
Will there be ambient light ?
How far will you be from the screen ?

Here are my numbers:
200x150 cm Screen.
No light whatsoever.
3 meters between me and the screen.
Optoma H30 DLP projector (800x600, 800 lumens, 2000:1 contrast).

6. How much do these things cost and why ?
For a good projector, I'd say between 1000-1500 € (700-1000£).
Then there's the replacement lamp (lamps usually last 2 years) (300€) (200£).
Don't forget the screen (100-150£) and a good DVD player (200-300£)

----------

Speaking from experience:

- Don't buy a Videoprojector unless you know and understand everything related to both LCD and DLP technologies (yes there's a lot to learn, but you can always ask me ).
- If you're gonna spend money on a projector, you must make sure that the rest of your hardware can keep up (DVD Player, Screen).
- Don't get a "data projector" if you're only interested in movies (Data projectors are high-brightness beasts optimized for PC presentations).
- Don't get a 16/9 projector if you're planning on watching TV shows on that big screen.
- Don't just get a big screen because you like it big (sometimes 99" is more than enough).
- Never use your projector like a TV (4+ hours straight).

When you're really interested in projectors, come and find me. There's loads of things to go over.

[grim_tales]

I dont know the first thing about projectors either. Blimey I thought I was happy with a 28" screen I'm sure I'll be blown away when I get a HD projector (or whatever).
With some discs, my player does have motion blur as well, like some frames blur/flicker or something if I have the picture source set up wrong in my player (say Auto instead of Video: Active).

[tom2681]

Blimey I thought I was happy with a 28" screen

Hey I had a 32" 16/9 TV for 4 years.
Since then I've gone to 99". I don't want to come back down, EVER !

If you think about it, most Plasma/LCD/Retroprojection TV are extremely expensive and usually don't even reach 50".
Suddenly videoprojectors don't seem so expensive anymore.

[grim_tales]

I'm sure once I go down the HD route 40"ish will be enough for me.
28" was the biggest I could fit through my bedroom door (of my old house).

[BiscLimpkit]

Ok Tom. Thanks a lot for the response.

My wall is 15' but I reckon only 13' width will be used... perhaps.

Is a screen required as my wall is white?

I take it the type of projector I'd want is a 16:9? I'd use it for DVDs only.

Would you mind posting a photo of your home setup (just to get some idea). Throw in a couple of kitties in the image.

PS: You don't have to btw. Thanks a lot though for your help.

[Yi-Long]

But do u always need a darkened room to be able to watch it!?
Some of the new BIGGGggggggggggggggg screen TV's have really good picture quality. Saw some in the store a couple of weeks ago.
I have a 32 inch at the moment but cant say I'm too happy with it...

[BiscLimpkit]

I forgot to say that I will either be watching in complete darkness or slightly dimmed lights. The lights' brightness can be controlled.

[bradavon]

Personally I'd get a decent size LCD, TV 32" or up depending on what you want.

Projectors are to much hassle IMO. I love my 32" LCD the quality is gorgeous and it's just the right size.

I also don't think projectors produce an awesome picture, great yes but not awesome. I'd prefer a smaller LCD image than a larger projection image.

Besides do you want to be miserable for the rest of your life? As that's what most projection owners seem to be . They're constantly moaning about X and Y's picture quality because they're able to spot every minute defect.

Retroprojection TV

What's one of those?

For a good projector, I'd say between 1000-1500 € (700-1000£).
Then there's the replacement lamp (lamps usually last 2 years) (300€) (200£).
Don't forget the screen (100-150£) and a good DVD player (200-300£)

Pedantic hat on:

The pound goes before the number (opposite to where you put the Euro but same place you put the dollar)

Pedantic hat off

p.s - CRT TV's are rubbish move on Grim

[gasteropod]

p.s - CRT TV's are rubbish move on Grim

No they're not. They're better than LCD and Plasma.

[tom2681]

Is a screen required as my wall is white ?

Projection screens reflect light better than a white wall.
Colours will be more vivid as well.

I take it the type of projector I'd want is a 16:9? I'd use it for DVDs only.

Yep.

Would you mind posting a photo of your home setup

I sure will.

do u always need a darkened room to be able to watch it!?

These projectors use a lamp to project the pictures. Try to use a lamp in a lit room and you'll see the problem.

I will either be watching in complete darkness or slightly dimmed lights.

Then you don't need a lot of lumens. (600-1000 should be enough).

Personally I'd get a decent size LCD, TV 32" or up...
Projectors are to much hassle IMO.

Setting them up is the most difficult part. When it's all done, it's just as easy to use as a TV.
BTW:
Don't forget that a 32" TV is big:


And a projector that can display a 100" image is small:

do you want to be miserable for the rest of your life? As that's what most projection owners seem to be.
constantly moaning about X and Y's picture quality because they're able to spot every minute defect.

Not everyone is a DVD reviewer.

-Retroprojection TV
-What's one of those?

It's those big ugly beasts:


-----------

When all is said and done, the only way to go is videoprojection (if you're looking for a big picture).
Anything else pales in comparison (except maybe real Movie Theaters)

[Shen]

i think ill stick to the 14" CRT that i have in my room

[grim_tales]

Brad I think my TV is fine at the moment but of course it will be replaced soon enough
If a get HD LCD TV (or something) when HD-DVD/BluRay comes along do I have to replace all my DVDs

[gojensen]

CRT owns LCD/PLASMA/DLP both for tv size equipment and projectors. Which is why Toshiba is making ZED flatscreen technology based on CRT rather than LCD/PLASMA/OLED/whatnot.

And you really should get a widescreen image... so no 320x240... that'd be 320x180 However that is huge!

You'll also be needing a good quality sound system. There's nothing to ruin a movie experience on the big screen like the thinny sound of cheap ass stereo Really.

As for your question re. the need of a screen... LCD projectors are usually recommended to have greyscreens instead of white. This helps with the blacklevel, without stealing the whites (it all balances out somehow). It enhances contrast greatly and gives a much better picture. Another thing, if you get a dedicated screencanvas you will be able to have black borders - another thing that greatly helps the visual quality of the image...

And for the "dummy" that said his 32" LCD is better than a projector clearly has no clue My home theater fps system rivals the movie theater, and clearly beats the heck out of my telly. The thing is to have a decent properly calibrated setup.

Though today I would actually HOLD OFF on a major investment like this untill HD/BRD is officially launching... simply because you will want a projector that is truly HD capable in resolution AND in connections. Rumours have it that the current HDMI connection WON'T be able to pass over 1080P images... and you'll also be required I think to have an HDCP compatible device, and to my knowledge there aren't many projectors out there that support HDCP. Yet.

[BiscLimpkit]

I just realised something... projector users, where do you keep the subwoofer and centre speaker? Because if I left it in front the projected wall, then the image would have to be smaller... so that it doesn't overlap with the subwoofer/center speaker on the floor?

Right? Or am I totally and 100% misinformed?

[gojensen]

If you have a widescreen setup (and most moderne HT projectors are WideScreen) there should be room below the screen for speakers. If not you would have to get a perforated screen and a sound equalizer to even out the differences from having the center speaker behind the screen.

Subs should be in a corner tucked away anyhoo.

[tom2681]

As promised, here are a few shots from my bedroom/home theater room/ living room / kitchen / all-in-one room.


In the middle of the room: my seat. The only good seat in the room.
2,50 m from the screen, very comfortable, remote controls on the sides, DVD Player and Amp on the right (don't even need to get up to change discs / no annoying LEDs in front of me).
Behind me on the floor: the subwoofer, connected to the seat via a very strategically placed wooden plank.
Behind, 30 cms from the ceiling: the projector (you can't see it on that shot).


When viewed from my seat, movies look way bigger than at the theater.
That's 99" screens for you.
Under it: my old 28" 16/9 TV (I keep it to remind myself that a projector is not wasted money).
In front of the TV: 2 center speakers (one on top of the other).

That's it folks. Home Cinema paradise, right there. 8)

[BiscLimpkit]

Cheers for the info. Tom, that's one sweet condo. Where are all the cats?

Aye so the woofer is quite close to the seat. Do you hear a lot of rattle?

[tom2681]

Where are all the cats ?

They don't like it when I turn on the lights, so they're probably in another bedroom.

Do you hear a lot of rattle ?

Nope. Just some very deep bass.

BTW: It doesn't matter where you put the woofer. In theory, ears can't pinpoint the location of bass. (you hear it, but you can't quite place it).

[Unrealnils]

Let me know it its too big for you lot ??



Thats a 19inch lcd, gamecube all my dvds and under the desk my dell pc (tanked up though )

PC is P4 3ghz, 2 gigs ram, 220gig hd, geforce 6800gt !!

EDIT if some dvds look fake i lost the covers when i moved places (dvds in folders at time) and downloaded covers from the net !!!!

[sky75]

Not that I am on the market for a projector yet but what would you go for if you're planning to watch TV DVDs as well as DVD movies. Some of the TV DVDs will be 4:3 whereas others will be widescreen.

ambient light from clock, vcr, dvd player, mains extension surge protection cable, amplifier.

max image 2m * 1.5 m

sitting position 3 - 4 metres away

does the projector have to be located dead centre in the room or can it be placed at an angle?

[tom2681]

does the projector have to be located dead centre in the room or can it be placed at an angle?

Some LCDs have a feature called lens shift that allows you to put the projector pretty much anywhere you want. It doesn't have to be facing the center of the screen.
I don't recommend using it though. It's better to put the projector exactly where it's supposed to be.

Some of the TV DVDs will be 4:3 whereas others will be widescreen.

Then you might wanna go for:
-Either a 800x600 4/3 or 1024x768 4/3 projector.
-Or a 1280x768 16/10 projector (halfway between 16/9 and 4/3).

max image 2m * 1.5 m

You need about 700-1000 lumens of light. More than 1000 = too bright.

Not that I am on the market for a projector yet

Don't forget to ask me questions when you get on the market.
It's a very bad idea to get into videoprojection if you don't understand everything about projectors.

[BiscLimpkit]

Hey how are PC projectors? I ask because the ones at my work seem pretty smart, in terms of sharpness, brightness and colours. Plus it would mean that I could watch all my [cough]avifiles[/cough] on the big screen.

Also PC projectors look so small, cute and adorable aww. I think it could replace my teddy bear maybe...

[tom2681]

106 inches (234cm by 132cm)... 148 € (£100)...

I'm never going to a movie theater again. Never !

£100?! How the fuzz did you get it that cheap?

It's one of those new Panoview projection screens from Optoma.
Cheap as hell.

http://www.optoma.co.uk/optoma/screens. ... ype=Manual

My old 100" screen cost me £200 two years ago.


£650 for the projector, £100 for the screen, £170 for the audio equipment, £80 for the DVD-Player, and you've got your own movie theater for £1000.
Cheaper than a small plasma screen.

Wow!
*Grim ponders what he will get for his next TV*

*Grim ponders what he will get for his next TV*

You should, seriously.

Videoprojection takes you to another world.
It's like cinema, only bigger.

Here's a few pictures that I've taken yesterday:

Holy shite.... that's pictures taken straight at the projection screen?

Wow... that's much sharper then I expected...

But isnt there a problem with projectors, as in they dont last very long?

A 3-year lifespan is the average these days.
But if you take them back to the shop once every two years, you can make them last 6 years maybe.

that's pictures taken straight at the projection screen?

Yep.

that's much sharper then I expected

1280x720 native resolution.



So sharp... it almost feels like 3D.

Tom, those images are arousing. They actually look sharper than a DVD screengrab from a PC.

I want an effin home cinema system - especially if it's less than £1000.

What projector do you have again? I'll just buy that tbh.

Tom, those images are arousing. They actually look sharper than a DVD screengrab from a PC.

Technically, they are.

One more, for fun:


You've got a nice shiny helmet, Lord Vader. 8)

What projector do you have again? I'll just buy that tbh.

Sanyo Z4:
-22 decibels (that's less than the noise a normal PC makes).
-7000:1 contrast ratio (a good LCD screen has a 1500:1 ratio).
-4 kilograms.
-Minimum screen size: 70 inches.
-Maximum screen size: around 25 feet.
-Around £680 over here.

Careful, though:
Videoprojection is a disease. Once you've tasted it, there's no going back.

Mmm that's more erotic than any photo in the Babes/Asian Babes thread. I'd rather bum that than Jakki Degg or Noriko.

Cheers Tom - I just need my own place and I'll think about this projector stuff. I had no idea the full gear was so cheap. Still can't get over that quality - will you be authoring your own "shaper than DVDrips" telesync avis?

I won't act surprised when I see newer.police.story.telesync_from_tom2681s_room.cd1.avi.torrent floating on the torrent networks.

will you be authoring your own "shaper than DVDrips" telesync avis?

No, but I could...

PowerDVD screencap:


Projection screen:


I could swear my projector takes the transfer and then improves it.

[BiscLimpkit]

I notice there's a 120" screen available... *major droolage*