Multi-region Blu-ray player

[bradavon]

What happens when using spdif coaxial with a BD that only has Dolby TrueHD? Many Sony blu-rays used to be released this way.

* BDs with PCM always have a separate DD5.1 track too.
* DTS-HD MA/HR has a legacy DTS core track (inside the DTS-HD)
* But Dolby TrueHD doesn't. I believe a separate hidden DD5.1 track is often included but many players cannot see this.

This isn't a problem when using HDMI obviously but plenty listen to 5.1 over spdif (myself included). Before a firmware upgrade, the LG BH200 would output Dolby TrueHD over spdif as stereo (it now converts/outputs PCM and TrueHD as 1.5Mbps legacy DTS).

Basically the best SPDIF (coaxial or optical) can handle is 1.5Mbps, either DD or DTS. How is TrueHD over spdif handled? Stereo, DD5.1 or DTS. Thanks.

I wonder if that's integrated into the player?

As it's only an offer Argos are running it won't be.

I hope I can use my PSP to transfer the firmware to it otherwise I'll have to buy a memory stick, I've never owned one.

How does that work? USB memory sticks are dirt cheap on eBay.

I wonder if there's a limit to the number of times you can change the region code on this player? If there isn't, I'd like to use it for everything, I'm certainly not taking the risk though unless it gets confirmed by someone online that it's safe to do so.

I seriously doubt there will be. If it's anything like my LG BH200 (similar hidden menu although you're adjusting a HEX code, no clearly laid out region menus), it's used by the factory to adjust for each blu-ray region. I've changed it loads of times.

Just leave it on whatever region you've got most of (A or B) and then change it to the other when you need to. Most of my discs are region free, so I rarely need to change it.

And for the audio I set mine to re-encode because otherwise it was only stereo on my setup.

It would do. I'm guessing you're using the spdif coaxial connection?

I don't know much about colour space but do know about DVD and Blu-ray audio options. Bitstream streams the signal as 1s and 0s (bits) for the Receiver/Amp to decode into DD/DTS/DTS-HD/TrueHD/Whatever.

Bitstream with blu-rays is designed for use over HDMI (because spdif coaxial doesn't support lossless audio). If you set it to bitstream and put in a DVD you'll find it outputs DD or DTS, spdif coaxial can handle those (it cannot handle any sort of lossless audio, hence stereo). It's possible a blu-ray with DD5.1 selected will also output 5.1 over spdif coaxial when set to bitstream too.

As DVDs don't support lossless audio bitstream and re-encode will both give the same results, although it's always better to let the receiver/amp do the decoding (i.e - bitstream) but obviously as you want to play blu-rays too, this isn't practical.

Re-encode I imagine will be taking the losslesss audio (PCM/TrueHD/DTS-HD) and converting it to either DTS or DD. What does your Receiver/Amp pick it up as? Basically bitstream it's the receiver/amp that's doing the actual decoding and then sending it to the speakers, whereas re-encode and pcm it's the player that's doing the decoding.

If your receiver/amp had HDMI you'd definitely want to be using bitstream (HDMI 1.3 or higher) or PCM (HDMI 1.2 or lower, those amps didn't support TrueHD/DTS-HD so it's outputted as lossless PCM) and not re-encode.

Gas if you could try a TrueHD only blu-ray please and report back whether you get Stereo, DD or DTS? When using re-encode obviously. See above, thanks.

I don't have a surround system. Just an old stereo receiver which I plug headphones into. I guess it doesn't make much difference in that case? (It's currently on PCM btw).

No it won't. When using a stereo only connection (3.5mm/RCA Phonos) you'll get stereo regardless, that's all those connections support.

Are your options Bitstream, Re-encode or PCM?

I've explained the first two above. PCM will convert it to raw/uncompressed Pulse Code Modulation, basically raw audio. It's the best one for stereo only users. Re-encode you're making the player do extra work that'll get lost when outputting and bitstream won't be picked up by your stereo receiver anyway.

[gasteropod]

Gas if you could try a TrueHD only blu-ray please and report back whether you get Stereo, DD or DTS? When using re-encode obviously.

I get 5.1 DTS from that, and yeah I'm using coaxial. I need to get a new surround sound system with HDMI, because apart from not being able to hear HD audio, this Sony system is slowly dying volume-wise.

As for your PSP query, I use it to transfer videos from my laptop to my PS3 via a USB lead because it has a memory card in it, and thankfully the Toshiba BD player found the firmware file I put on it so didn't have to buy a memory stick. I wasn't sure if it would be recognised as a device rather than a hard drive.

[bradavon]

I get 5.1 DTS from that, and yeah I'm using coaxial.

Sweet. Thanks for checking. I bet you get DTS when listening to a DD track on a BD too right? If so, it's an identical approach to my LG BH200. It re-encodes every type of track to DTS (obviously stereo/mono if it is that). The LG BH200 does this for BDs/HD-DVDs but not DVDs (Re-encode isn't engaged for them). I bet your Tosh is the same. It would be better if it didn't re-encode DD on BDs but you cannot have everything.

BTW if a BD has PCM + DD or TrueHD + DD you're better off choosing PCM/TrueHD as they'll be re-encoded to 1.5Mbps DTS vs. the 640Kbps DD can only offer. DTS-HD has a 1.5Mbps DTS core inside it, so no re-encoding is necessary.

That's impressive for a budget player. I know of premium BD players that don't re-encode for spidf users. TrueHD is pretty rare nowadays but even so, I wouldn't want to be stuck with stereo.

I need to get a new surround sound system with HDMI, because apart from not being able to hear HD audio, this Sony system is slowly dying volume-wise.

I wanted to for ages but have gone off the idea. DTS/DD is fine for me. I can rarely crank it up loud anyway, my flat has neighbours above/below.

I do need a new amp though. My Sony Receiver is 11 years old and the relays are fucked. The centre and rear channels are all sent to the front right. Which sounds bloody awful. I have to leave it on stereo, which is then fine (so at least music is fine). I've not been able to listen to surround sound for months. I've got 4 floor standers, the rear ones do nowt. As is the centre.

I believe all it needs is a couple of relays re-soldering but I know squat about soldering. It's only the last 6 months the relays have completely given up. It used to be an intermittent problem (it could go for months before it clicked and stopped working). To be fair, the amp lasted a very impressive 9.5 years before it went wrong.

It's frustrating because I know it's not a big job to fix and it's still more than I need. The volume goes crazily high.

I'm probably going to get a sound bar. You can get some with impressive (considering the obvious limit) virtual surround and I need to be down-sizing, not up-sizing.

As for your PSP query

Oh PSP. I thought you said PS3. That makes much more sense.

[Markgway]

Are your options Bitstream, Re-encode or PCM?

Yes.

PCM will convert it to raw/uncompressed Pulse Code Modulation, basically raw audio. It's the best one for stereo only users. Re-encode you're making the player do extra work that'll get lost when outputting and bitstream won't be picked up by your stereo receiver anyway.

Thanks. That's what it's factory set to.

If I ever get a surround system we'll have this conversation again....

[gasteropod]

I bet you get DTS when listening to a DD track on a BD too right?

Nope, standard DD 5.1 still comes out as DD 5.1 on the re-encode setting.

[gasteropod]

I'm not entirely sure which kind of audio was outputting as stereo on the bitstream setting before, because I'm testing them all now and both TrueHD and HD Master Audio are coming out as 5.1 (bitstream).

[bradavon]

Thanks. That's what it's factory set to.

As I'm sure you know, they tend to set them to the lowest tech setting. Which is why many DVD Players are "still" set to letterbox by default. The amount of people I've seen watching anamorphic films in letterbox on a widescreen TV and not even noticing the picture is stretched horizontally.

If I ever get a surround system we'll have this conversation again....

No worries.

Nope, standard DD 5.1 still comes out as DD 5.1 on the re-encode setting.

Good to hear. That's how it should be. There's no point re-encoding (i.e - transcoding) DD when obviously spdif can handle it anyway. It must only kick in for PCM or TrueHD. Have you tried PCM? That's less important as there'll be a DD track too but PCM to DTS would allow for a higher bitrate than the DD can offer (1.5Mbps vs. 640Kbps).

I'm not entirely sure which kind of audio was outputting as stereo on the bitstream setting before, because I'm testing them all now and both TrueHD and HD Master Audio are coming out as 5.1 (bitstream).

DTS in both cases right? or DD when listening to TrueHD?

If it's DD when using TrueHD and DTS when using DTS-HD, I can see the logic. DTS-HD has a DTS track inside it (no re-encoding necessary) and TrueHD usually has a separate (hidden) DD track. The Toshiba Player could be picking these up and outputting them over bitstream.

If that's the case, bitstream is better because your receiver/amp will be doing the decoding (less work for the player too). Re-encode it's definitely your player doing the decoding, for TrueHD at least anyway.

What about PCM?

I bet that comes out in Stereo. PCM is raw audio. Stereo for CDs and usually multi-channel for blu-rays. It has no extra DTS/DD tracks assigned to it (hence DD is always included as a menu option too), which is why stereo is outputted over spdif. And if PCM does come out in stereo, you'll want to use Re-encode. That way you'll get some form of 5.1 regardless and at the highest bitrate possible (i.e - 1.5Mbps regardless if it's DTS-HD, PCM or TrueHD).

[saltysam]

Reserved one in Richer Sounds for £50

[gasteropod]

It's a great player Salty I'm loving it, it goes with my Toshiba HDTV too

Has anyone sent off for the 12 months free Lovefilm yet? I went and photocopied my receipt today, going to send off tomorrow.

[Markgway]

Reserved one in Richer Sounds for £50

We don't have a Richer Sounds near us.

Has anyone sent off for the 12 months free Lovefilm yet? I went and photocopied my receipt today, going to send off tomorrow.

I sent mine off. Just a case of waiting....

[gasteropod]

I've finally discovered a quirk with this player: When playing any season of LOST on Blu-ray, it bypasses the menu language selection and defaults to Japanese (??) lol.

[Markgway]

何性交か。

[bradavon]

. As long as you can change it using the remote, it's cool.

Gas can you try a PCM BD please? Do you get 5.1 from it? And if so, is it DD or DTS? If you can try bitstream and re-encode too. Thanks.

[gasteropod]

. As long as you can change it using the remote, it's cool.

You can't, the menus are in Japanese with no way of changing them that I can find.

[bradavon]

There's no audio button on the remote. Really? Surely there's an audio menu? Even if it's in Japanese, you should be able to navigate to the audio menu and pick English. No?

[gasteropod]

Menu language as in text, not audio language lol

[bradavon]

I said that, pretty much. Got it now though. I wouldn't really bother me. You could try accessing the title directly. Most DVD/BD Players let you navigate to a different title as well as chapter.

[gasteropod]

David Mackenzie is very impressed with this player and says that the only thing it doesn't do well is video deinterlacing, which doesn't really matter anyway.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/blu-ray- ... -bd-6.html

I'm continually amazed with how much better the PQ is on this than my PS3, it's like a revelation.

[Markgway]

David Mackenzie is very impressed with this player and says that the only thing it doesn't do well is video deinterlacing, which doesn't really matter anyway.

What does that mean in real terms?

[gasteropod]

Interlaced video material can have jagged lines on the diagonals or something. This is why progressive is what we always want.

[Markgway]

OK. I don't have any 1080i films so shouldn't be an issue.

[bradavon]

Percentage wise, there aren't many.

The PS3 is a very old BD Player. It's no surprising, it can be trumped by a £50 player. There's nowt wrong with it but it came out 5 years ago. How poor is the remote?

[luckystars]

So how does this player look with DVD? My old Tosh had a very murky picture.

Any issues with Blu-Rays not playing or any discs pausing during playback?

[gasteropod]

Its DVD PQ is better than the PS3's, Toshiba are good at upscaling. As for playback, it can struggle to load the Aliens Blu-ray, but all you have to do is turn it off and on again and it works. But worst of all for me is, it won't play my Trout Mask Replica CD! Its CD playback is amazing so I really want to hear my favourite album through it, but after taking ages to load it plays the CD like an apocalypse of data bytes, I've never heard anything like it!

Has anyone heard back from Lovefilm yet?

[Markgway]

Has anyone heard back from Lovefilm yet?

Not yet... but it did say within 28 days.