Radiohead - Creep

[luckystars]

Why does Swearing = have to mean self proclaimed genius for the artist?

Can't there be a middle way. Why talk talking in extremes if you want a balanced argument?


Btw. Is Trainspotting not a great film because of the course language?

[bradavon]

Get over yourself with the I'm being picked on Mark. If "I" can handle it, well then tough, so shall you.

Btw. Is Trainspotting not a great film because of the course language?

Exactly. It's allowed in movies and often it's very, very gratuitous.

I think it was only once in the song You Oughta Know. The same critics who laughed at her early pop phase drooled over her newer 'edgy' persona. If she swears and talks about oral sex she must be 'keepin' it real'.

Her later work is lyrically stronger, correct.

I think it was only once in the song You Oughta Know.

More reason not to give it that stupid sticker.

[Yi-Long]

I think the whole discussion, both here as well as in the media whenever an 'artist' uses some swearwords in his/her work, is just ridiculous. What the hell is this? Kindergarten!?

Someone uses 'fuck' or whatever in a song. Whooptydoo(!) Let's spend 3 days in the news about it, and mention it in all the articles...(!) Grow up. If Alanis Morrisette is considered 'edgy' simply because she uses the word 'fuck' in one of her songs, then some of those people really need to lose their jobs.

[Markgway]

Why does Swearing = have to mean self proclaimed genius for the artist?

Not really sure what you mean here? My 'genius' remark was intended (quite obviously I thought) as ironic.

Why talk talking in extremes if you want a balanced argument?

What extremes? Again, I'm not sure what you're referring to... If you've got a counter-argument then please share it. I'm not trying to stop anyone from having an opinion - that would defeat the point of the thread (and the forum).

Btw. Is Trainspotting not a great film because of the course language?

First off I don't think it's a 'great' film but that's nothing to do with its coarse language. The nature of Trainspotting justifies the execessive language (that is how some people talk in these parts). I don't really have an issue with swearing in adult films, it's part and parcel; the misplaced 'fuck' in Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves' would be a different kettle of fish. I think context and overall tone is important in judging suitability. But I think maybe we're getting a little off track... since I already said that it was primarily swearing in music that got on my nerves -- and as we all know I swear far too much on this forum.

[Markgway]

Get over yourself with the I'm being picked on Mark. If "I" can handle it, well then tough, so shall you.

So, you're saying that A) You get picked on, and B) That it's OK?
I'll remember that for future reference.

More reason not to give it that stupid sticker.

The Parental Advisory sticker is a bit of a joke. It doesn't prevent kids from buying records so is there much of a point? I think a ratings system comparable to the one for films or video games would be fair. That way you can tell if a record has one use of strong language or forty.

I think the whole discussion, both here as well as in the media whenever an 'artist' uses some swearwords in his/her work, is just ridiculous. What the hell is this? Kindergarten!? Someone uses 'fuck' or whatever in a song. Whooptydoo(!) Let's spend 3 days in the news about it, and mention it in all the articles...(!) Grow up.

So because swearing in music doesn't bother you no one else has the right to debate it - or complain? I've no wish to complain but I would've liked a debate that didn't resort to childish insults of the kind you've so ably demonstrated. This thread is 'ridiculous' and I need to 'grow up'. Thanks. I know where you stand you can leave by the back door now.

[grim_tales]

Both versions get the message across, but I think the use of "fucking special" expresses the frustration more, rather like in James Blunt's You're Beautiful (which is also a pretty angsty dark song disguised as a ballad). Neither versions bother me to be honest. Its just 1 line/word in the song.

[luckystars]

1. @ Mark. If you want a counter argument don't try to be '(quite obviously I thought) ironic' - people might not read it as such.

2. @ Mark & Brad. Perhaps Alanis Morissette's album had an Advisory sticker for more than just one or 2 cuss words. Adult lyrics can be more than just swearing - themes too.

3. @ Mark. Suggesting CD's have a rating system like films or games is hilarious. Would you as a guy in his 30's not buy a 12 rated CD then for 'fear' of hearing one rude word?

[grim_tales]

I guess it depends on the song - Creep is a great song, Stan (Eminem) is a good record with dark themes - that record called "Fuck It" by Eamon or whatever his name was didnt appeal to me and seemed to be just him swearing for its own sake - didnt mean I wanted that song bannned, I just didnt listen to it.
Even Paradise By The Dashboard Light (great song) has swearing in it, that probably fits the character.
I didnt know the Cee Lo Green song was originally called Fuck You.

[Yi-Long]

I think the whole discussion, both here as well as in the media whenever an 'artist' uses some swearwords in his/her work, is just ridiculous. What the hell is this? Kindergarten!? Someone uses 'fuck' or whatever in a song. Whooptydoo(!) Let's spend 3 days in the news about it, and mention it in all the articles...(!) Grow up.

So because swearing in music doesn't bother you no one else has the right to debate it - or complain? I've no wish to complain but I would've liked a debate that didn't resort to childish insults of the kind you've so ably demonstrated. This thread is 'ridiculous' and I need to 'grow up'. Thanks. I know where you stand you can leave by the back door now.

I'm not saying you as an individual aren't allowed to be upset or whatever. That's perfectly fine with me.

I think making a huge deal about it, like the media and the magazines do, is kinda sad though. If Alanis using the word 'fuck' in a song is headline news and reason for national debate for a week or whatever, I think that's just ridiculous and beyond pathetic.

Words have meaning, and so do swear-words. They aren't exclusively meant to insult and upset people, but sometimes are used to express a certain emotion/feeling more strongly. We all know it. We all use it from time to time. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with it.
'Fuck' in the context it's in in the Creep song, isn't offensive to anyone with a rational mind. I'm sure it's offensive to whoever feels the need to feel offended by it, or who wants to take the opportunity to stand on a soapbox and get some attention.

That's not to say I LIKE swearing in songs. If it isn't necessary, I will feel it's out of place, immature, it's sole intention to 'shock', etc etc. But the examples given, like Creep and Alanis, aren't offensive in any way to me.

'Fuck You' by Ceelo also isn't offensive to me (I doubt there is ANY song that I would personally be offended by btw...), but I also don't rate it highly, and see the whole 'fuck you' more as trying to make an 'easy score', instead of good penmanship. Plus the song is pretty boring and repeats itself too much.

[luckystars]

It's ok to say fuck.

[Markgway]

1. @ Mark. If you want a counter argument don't try to be '(quite obviously I thought) ironic' - people might not read it as such.

I'm tired of the negativity. I can handle any number of pot shots you guys dish out. I just expected better from the Bullets crowd.

2. @ Mark & Brad. Perhaps Alanis Morissette's album had an Advisory sticker for more than just one or 2 cuss words. Adult lyrics can be more than just swearing - themes too.

The only sex references/profanity I remember is in the song You Oughta Know:

"Is she perverted like me
Would she go down on you in a theatre"

"It was a slap in the face how quickly I was replaced
Are you thinking of me when you fuck her?"

I think otherwise the album is pretty much 'U' certificate pop angst material.

3. @ Mark. Suggesting CD's have a rating system like films or games is hilarious. Would you as a guy in his 30's not buy a 12 rated CD then for 'fear' of hearing one rude word?

Me, no. But that's not the point, is it? Why should films and games be rated when music isn't? A 14 year old can't go to see Made in Dagenham (with it's 17 'fucks') but can buy any number of gangsta rap/hip hop albums with similar amounts of profanity (and a whole heap of misogyny on top). You may find this hard to believe but quite a lot of people are bothered by swearing in music. Just because none of them - bar myself - post on this forum doesn't make them invisible. I think it's quite reasonable to have ratings and consumer advice printed on album covers.

[Markgway]

I guess it depends on the song - Creep is a great song, Stan (Eminem) is a good record with dark themes

I don't think anyone would expect clean language from Eminem; angry ranty swearing is his 'thing'. My gripe with Radiohead is that the swearing in 'Creep' seemed out of place for that song/band. Correct me if I'm wrong...

that record called "Fuck It" by Eamon or whatever his name was didnt appeal to me and seemed to be just him swearing for its own sake

It shows the immature mentality of the British public that it made No.1 in the charts... and I believe there was a response song (!) called 'Fuck You Back'.

didnt mean I wanted that song bannned, I just didnt listen to it.

No argument here. In fact I've never said anywhere that I want any of these songs banned - which is why I'm so taken aback by the hard time I'm getting. All I'm saying is that I personally don't like them. I asked if anyone had an opinion to share on the subject not for a top ten list of reasons why Markgway is an old granny who wants to censor everybody.

Even Paradise By The Dashboard Light (great song) has swearing in it, that probably fits the character.

Is that Meatloaf? Not sure if I've heard it.

I didnt know the Cee Lo Green song was originally called Fuck You.

Yeah, the radio edit is called 'Forget You'.

[luckystars]

1. @ Mark. If you want a counter argument don't try to be '(quite obviously I thought) ironic' - people might not read it as such.

I'm tired of the negativity. I can handle any number of pot shots you guys dish out. I just expected better from the Bullets crowd.

Don't understand.



Music does have an 'advisory' sticker fundamentally for parents benefit. iTunes has an 'Explicit' flag which can be used to filter search results (I believe).

I don't personally think any more is needed than that to protect children. I guess as an adult you're 'at risk' to stumble on music with swearing in, just like using the net you may come across porn by accident.

Radio has a watershed too. I suppose that counts as helping you avoid it too.

My earlier point stands though, Radiohead made that song the way they wanted it. If you don't like that just accept you heard it, din't like it and move on and don't buy anymore of their stuff.

How do you feel about swearing in Stand up comedy? I forgot to list that before...

[Markgway]

I'm not saying you as an individual aren't allowed to be upset or whatever. That's perfectly fine with me. I think making a huge deal about it, like the media and the magazines do, is kinda sad though. If Alanis using the word 'fuck' in a song is headline news and reason for national debate for a week or whatever, I think that's just ridiculous and beyond pathetic.

Fair enough. I misunderstood the direction of your comments. I don't think it's the media's place to whip up a frenzy everytime someone swears in a record or film. My thoughts are my own and I wanted to share them not start a witch hunt.

Words have meaning, and so do swear-words. They aren't exclusively meant to insult and upset people, but sometimes are used to express a certain emotion/feeling more strongly. We all know it. We all use it from time to time. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with it.

I agree with that. You all know I swear too much. Probably as much - if not more - than anyone on this forum. Maybe that's because I'm angry all the fucking time!!

'Fuck' in the context it's in in the Creep song, isn't offensive to anyone with a rational mind. I'm sure it's offensive to whoever feels the need to feel offended by it, or who wants to take the opportunity to stand on a soapbox and get some attention.

I didnt say it offended me. Offence isn't the right word. More irritated. Like if you had a good, sensitive song, and at various points the singer yells 'bubblegum'. That wouldn't offend me, but it would annoy. I'm very cynical about the use of swearing and my objection is more about the gratuitous nature of it in music than any offence that may be caused. That's not my style.

That's not to say I LIKE swearing in songs. If it isn't necessary, I will feel it's out of place, immature, it's sole intention to 'shock', etc etc. But the examples given, like Creep and Alanis, aren't offensive in any way to me.

I tend to feel that the swearing in Creep and You Oughta Know - but especially the former - is out of place - but again neither offensive nor shocking. That's not where I'm coming from. If anything it's banal and lazy. I guess I find it hard to get swept away by the sad emotions of Creep when I hear 'so fucking special'. It jars. I can't help it.

'Fuck You' by Ceelo also isn't offensive to me (I doubt there is ANY song that I would personally be offended by btw...), but I also don't rate it highly, and see the whole 'fuck you' more as trying to make an 'easy score', instead of good penmanship. Plus the song is pretty boring and repeats itself too much.

Yeah, it's a lame song. Many critics have argued that it's the best R&B track in years which just goes to show how dire the genre is. Back in the heyday of R&B when the likes of Aretha Franklin, Otis Redding, Al Green, etc were on their game this drivel wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the charts. I don't think I could be 'offended' by simple swearing in a song. If the lyric was something like 'I'm gonna rape your baby daughter' then that might. There's very little quality songwriting now. You used to have professional songwriters - people who might not be able to sing but knew how to write a good lyric. Now most write their own lyrics and just because you can do one thing (let's say sing) doesn't mean you can do another. I like Sheryl Crow - but some of her lyrics are awful. The Beatles started the trend of writing your own music - you simply have to or else your credibility as an artist is in grave doubt.

[Markgway]

Music does have an 'advisory' sticker fundamentally for parents benefit.

Do parents still stop their children from buying songs with Parental Advisory stickers? For kids it's a badge of honour. I think an advisory isn't enough for some songs/albums.

Can't say I'd be thrilled if my kid was blaring this out on the stereo:

"Yo man
What?
She came
Where?
There!
Oh!
In a word or 2 - it's u I wanna do
No not cha body, yo mind u fool

Come here baby, yeah
U sexy motherfucker

Were all alone in a villa on the rivera
That's in france on the south side
In case u cared
Out of all yo friends I wanna be the closest
That's why I tell u things
So ull be the mostest
When it comes 2 life, 2 be this mans wife
U got 2 be well educated on the subject of fights
I mean prevention of
In other words - it's r.e.a.l meaning of this thing called love
Are u up on this?
If so, then u can get up off hug and a kiss

Come here baby, yeah
U sexy motherfucker

Come here baby, yeah
U sexy motherfucker

We need 2 talk about things
Tell me what cha do, tell me what cha eat
I might cook 4 u
See it really don't matter cuz it's all about me and u
Aint no one else around
Im even with the blindfold, gagged and bound
I don't mind
See this aint about sex
Its all about love being in charge of this life
And the next...
Why all the cosmic talk?
I just want u smarter than I'll ever be
When we take that walk

Come here baby, yeah
U sexy motherfucker
Come here baby, yeah
U sexy motherfucker

Horns stand please...

I like it, I like it

U seem perplexed I haven't taken u yet
Cant u see Im harder than a man can get
I got wet dreams comin out of my ears
I get hard if the wind blows your cologne near me
But I can take it, cuz I want the whole nine
This aint about the body, it's about the mind

Come here baby, yeah
U sexy motherfucker
Come here baby, yeah
U sexy motherfucker

Tommy barbarella in the house
Scrub the dishes

Come here tommy, yeah

Sexy, sexy, sexy, sexy

Levi, levi, fly

[ooh man, lets give em some more good shit]

I like it, I like it

Sexy motherfucker shakin that ass, shakin that ass, shakin that ass
Sexy motherfucker shakin that ass, shakin that ass, shakin that ass

Guard your folks and get your daughter
(sexy motherfucker shakin that ass, shakin that ass, shakin that ass)
The sexy motherfuckers so fine I could drink her bathwater
A long, leggy 58
(sexy motherfucker shakin that ass, shakin that ass, shakin that ass)
Packing an ass as tight as a grape
I want to spit some game but I said to myself
Hmmm...just conversate (yeah!)
(sexy motherfucker shakin that ass, shakin that ass, shakin that ass)
Cuz Im usually quite the calm one (come on!)
You never found me out prowling boy
Im just havin fun
(sexy motherfucker shakin that ass, shakin that ass, shakin that ass)
But Im happy 2 change my state of mind for this behind
I bet that if you threw that ass into the air it would turn into sunshine

Sexy motherfucker
That would make shakin that ass
4 one sexy motherfucker shakin this place shakin that ass
Shakin that ass
Sexy motherfucker shakin that ass, shakin that ass, shakin that ass
Sexy motherfucker shakin that ass, shakin that ass, shakin that ass
Sexy motherfucker shakin that ass, shakin that ass, shakin that ass

U sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker

U sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker
Sexy motherfucker"

But then I hate Prince regardless........

How do you feel about swearing in Stand up comedy? I forgot to list that before...

Doesn't bother me in the main. I've been a fan of Billy Connolly for years. Again, it depends on the performer. Lee Evans is someone whose constant swearing seems out of place to me. It's like hearing Norman Wisdom eff and blind. Doesn't fit.

[grim_tales]

@ Mark, yeah - Paradise by the Dashboard Light is Meatloaf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NTDHjVKQyo

[luckystars]

Lol @ referencing Prince - Sexy MF.

It shows how often a song like that comes along!

[Markgway]

Lol @ referencing Prince - Sexy MF.

It shows how often a song like that comes along!

I think it must hold some sort of world record.

[Markgway]

@ Mark, yeah - Paradise by the Dashboard Light is Meatloaf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NTDHjVKQyo

Blimey. 11 mins of Meat Loaf is too much to handle in one go. But, yes, I've heard the song before, probably on the radio. I don't recall the swearing but it may have been an edit.

[grim_tales]

There's an 8 minute version I think but yeah, Meat Loaf does long songs doesnt he?

[saltysam]

i was listening to a recent Pink song on my daughter's ipod, called Perfect. it's a bit of a ballad and while it's no classic there was no need to add the "fucking perfect" line to the hook,the "fucking" was definitely just put there because it's like Pink and she..err...is meant to swear

[Markgway]

Watch out Sam. You'll be called a prude any minute now.