The Mid-East Conflict

[thelostdragon]

Anybody interested in discussing the current situation in the Middle East? Tunisia, Egypt and now Libya. Although what is happening in Libya is no comparison to the revolutions in Tunisia and Egypt. I always knew Gaddafi was a crazy man and that he has done things like executing 1200 people on one day, but military action against your own people including airstrikes etc... WTF?
Similar rebellions in Yemen, Algeria and Jordan. I say go for it.

[Markgway]

Gaddafi is a psychopath and anything which moves the middle east further toward democracy has to be a good thing. Unfortunately people power rarely comes without bloodshed. I wish I had the answers.

[Yi-Long]

I would love to discuss it, but truth is that I really don't know anything about all the individual situations in those countries and thus the way those governments are treating their people etc etc.

Also, I think any discussion about this will most likely deteriorate into people claiming it's all about religion and such nonsense, mostly because they prefer to blame ANY unrest (or worse) in that area on their religion...

So yeah, I could make an effort and say some sensible things about it, but I'll just keep it very simple: I just hope the situation for the people in these countries will improve after these protests. More jobs, more even distribution of the wealth, more solidarity, more unity, less corruption and self-enrichment by the high and mighty, etc etc.

[thelostdragon]

...anything which moves the middle east further toward democracy has to be a good thing.

I agree with you. Too bad US and European governments don't.

[thelostdragon]

Libya: UN backs action against Colonel Gaddafi
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12781009

GREAT!

[bradavon]

Yawn. The West muscles in to someone else's fight yet again. Where do we stop? There are loads of countries run by dictators. I bet we'd love it if the Libyan's decided to bomb us.

[Markgway]

This time 'the west' has the backing of all the major international bodies. Not the same as Iraq. There's a real risk of genocide in Libya. A no-fly zone (though it could go further) may prevent mass civilian casualties. I don't want to see Britain involved in another war, but if it's deemed by the U.N. to be the right thing to do we should support it.

[romerojpg]

More war for us UK Tax payers to fund and fling good money down the drain.
Well done spineless U.N. scum, the evil Arab league of injustice has you by the balls this time by asking you to help them (what cheek! after the shit they let fly) when they should do this dirty work themselves. The countries around them should sort it out, but no the gutless fools want us yet again to step in and save their arses, then we will only get the flack and suicide bombers wanting to blow the UK apart in more loony numbers. Nice.

The whole situation is a joke, the U.N. is a sham how it steps back and lets millions die in one country, and another country with oil they stick their pathetic nose into their shit.

[thelostdragon]

For decades Arab dictators have been prevailing as guarantors for unhindered access to petroleum for the West. In return these dictators have been receiving armament supplies. Don't know all the exporting countries, but Germany ranks number 3 in the world when it comes to exporting weaponry. And they have been exporting to Arab dictators just as well, even though arms export is illegal if the buyers are human rights violaters. Right now German politicians are scared that Gaddafi will put down the opposing movement with German weapons. And to Gaddafi an opposing movement includes civilians demonstrating for freedom.

[Markgway]

I have no love for Arab League states, most of which are corrupt, run by militant dictators or religious fanatics. But if this action helps Libya to become a democracy (and hopefully with minimal outside intervention) then that can't be a bad thing. AFAIK we're there to prevent Gaddafi dropping bombs on civilians. The rest should be up to the rebels. My only other concern is that removing Gadaffi would create a void filled by the likes of the Muslim Brotherhood. I don't think Britain should get involved at ground level. Not worth risking our soldiers' lives over. But given we armed Gadaffi to the teeth knowing his capacity for evil the western powers must take some responsibility for we he does.

[bradavon]

There's a real risk of genocide in Libya. A no-fly zone (though it could go further) may prevent mass civilian casualties.

It doesn't mean we should get involved. Sure they probably need help but why is it the West's responsibility every time? You don't see Iran or North Korea for instance helping, they've too got the arms to help. The West has absolutely no idea how Arab countries work.

Since when has minimal Western intervention remained minimal? I don't imagine for a second it will stop after the air raid. Why stop at Libya? They all need help frankly. The whole area is a mess.

[Markgway]

You don't see Iran or North Korea for instance helping

Because they're the bad guys.

That's like asking why Lex Luthor never helps Superman(!)

[Yi-Long]

As far as their foreign policy is concerned, I wouldn't consider Iran 'the bad guys' tbh. They mostly just mind their own business while the rest of the world keeps provoking them into doing something stupid. Which won't happen. They've got a pretty damn good trackrecord when it comes to not starting shit with other countries.

Obviously, I wouldn't want to live there, but that goes for around 80% of the world.

North-Korea is nuts though. Brainwashed and nuts.

However, to me, Israel is one of the most fucked up countries in the world. Their domestic policy against arabs/palestinians/muslims is just disgusting.
If you want to talk about 'the bad guys', Israel should be right next to Kim Jong-Il on top of that list.

[thelostdragon]

US Army Apologizes for Horrific Photos from Afghanistan
http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 10,00.html

[Yi-Long]

"Sorry we took this pictures"...

(!)

[thelostdragon]

The thing is that this stuff is happening all the time. We just only know about the incidents that leak to the public. I hear these kind of sick stories all the time from friends and relatives.

[Markgway]

A moron in a uniform is still a moron.

[Yi-Long]

The thing is that this stuff is happening all the time. We just only know about the incidents that leak to the public. I hear these kind of sick stories all the time from friends and relatives.

I know. And although I hate to say it, it seems to be part of 'human nature'. It seems to happen in every war, by all sides. There's always a group that loses touch with humanity and just seems to go crazy.

Maybe it helps when you see the opposing side not as humans, but as trash, scum, insects, whatsoever.

Not that it's ever an excuse, but it still seems to occur in all conflicts. Sadly.

[Yi-Long]

A moron in a uniform is still a moron.

I think most of the time there is already something wrong with you when you choose to put on a uniform...

[saltysam]

I think most of the time there is already something wrong with you when you choose to put on a uniform...

Oi! i have to wear a uniform for work

[Yi-Long]

I think most of the time there is already something wrong with you when you choose to put on a uniform...

Oi! i have to wear a uniform for work

Yeah, but you get free hotwings so it's ok....

[romerojpg]

I dont get the fuss about the images, I have seen far, far worse from the Enemy's side (but they are so thick they do it to their own people as well). They love to parade their victories through the streets, its far from just American and the UK doing such shit.

Mind you them shots have bugger all to do with this discussion anyway.

[Markgway]

A moron in a uniform is still a moron.

I think most of the time there is already something wrong with you when you choose to put on a uniform...

That's not fair. I would imagine (or at least hope) that most do it for the right reasons. But as with anything you always get troublemakers who abuse their positions.

[Yi-Long]

A moron in a uniform is still a moron.

I think most of the time there is already something wrong with you when you choose to put on a uniform...

That's not fair. I would imagine (or at least hope) that most do it for the right reasons. But as with anything you always get troublemakers who abuse their positions.

I'm not doubting many go into the military for 'the right reasons'. What I meant was that I can't imagine putting myself in a position where my life and everything I do and have to do, BELONGS to politicians who might or might not have my best interests in mind, and thus order me to go to the other side of the world for whatever justified reason they claim to have, and shoot at whoever they want me to shoot at.

In short: I wouldn't want to ever be a puppet for some nutjob.

Also, I think many soldiers go into the army simply because it's one of the few chances they might have to build some kind of life/career.

I'm not saying you go into the army because you want to shoot people and be a bastard. I'm saying there must be something kinda wrong for you when you basically allow yourself to be someone else's 'slave' and fight their battles for them.

How many sad saps have died in Afghanistan and Iraq just because Shell needs some more cheap oil!?