Fist of Legend CineAsia BDUK vs DD R1 DVD vs HKV R2Fr DVD

[chenlung]

Interesting, so it could be that the Eng subs on the BD represent the original English translation that was made by DD, but they decided to edit in some of the dub translation for their final R1 retail release.

Who knows !

So I take it, given Mark and Yi's recent comments, that the general consensus here is that Dimension made the cuts themselves and Dionbrother is mistaken? I must admit that there doesn't seem to be any logical reason for them to cut that final shot of the film. Either way another company has released FOL in Europe uncut so you would have thought CineAsia would be able to procure the HK print if they so desired.

It was more about how Dimension were seemingly screwed over by the HK company, rather than the edits Dimension made, but those are indeed another issue.

On DVD (ignoring the MIHK VHS, etc), 'FOL' was released in Japan and France in its original HK version, whereas the Spanish release (maybe not giving a shit?) includes the English export version - that's probably what Dimension were given too. Cine-Asia are tied to DD's deal.

[Yi-Long]

I don't know who cut what and when or why. I just know that they're selling us an incomplete movie for no good reason whatsoever.

[grim_tales]

They can only work with what theyre given.

[bradavon]

Am I the only one getting a headache over all this talk on different Fist of Legend cuts and versions? I'm so confused. I gave up trying to keep up posts back .

Because they're fucking morons. Which is why people like me get upset so often because of their bullshit.

Maybe but I'd still be interested to hear their logic. For example I can see the logic behind the cut scene in Drunken Master 2. You may not agree but at least there's logic. Why cut that FOL scene?

[chenlung]

I forgot about DVDBeaver's review (http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompar ... legend.htm).

I think summarising, the first reel (judging currently by YouTube and captures!) does look overall excellent (with some shots, Dimension has a bit of advantage). However, further on in the film (arrival at Jing Mo School), things seem to weaken - there maybe contrast boosting on DD when clothes are just a dark shadow, where as on Dimension, you can see all the detail (Jet's jacket as he's tying his shoe). The colour also looks a bit forced towards the red/purple (?) side, but I do agree Dimension does appear to have an look of over-saturation sometimes.

[bradavon]

The DD BD looks really nice.

[DangerousLeeHandsome]

Unfortunately, judging by the subtitle sample, it may be complete dubtitles this time.

[Markgway]

I thought we'd established that they were subs?

EDIT: Sorry, I thought we were still talking about the Cine Asia.

[grim_tales]

So DD = dubtitles and Cine Asia = proper subs?

[chenlung]

I was wondering what you guys were talking about - hadn't realised that it had been updated since with the Blu-Ray LOL!

There varying-in-quality subtitle scripts are really annoying, not to mention bizarre. Incidentally, I do like the font on the Blu-Ray. We'd need to compare these properly with a scene. It seems to be:

Dimension DVD = Dimension dub.
Dragon Dynasty = Weird subtitles.
Cine-Asia = Slightly improved subtitles.

The Blu-Ray reveals deeper detail than the DVD (the aforementioned Chen's jacket), but isn't close to Dimension's.

I think when DD got the HD master, the DVD went through a damage-removal scheme, but neither Blu-Ray did. I've suspected it could be the reason of the blurring. Apparently, 'My Father Is A Hero' ('The Enforcer') DVD cleaned up the existing master, and looks obviously better (although there's the supposed colour modulation).

[Shingster]

Took me long enough but my review is now up. Covers most of the aspects of Fist of Legend and I've even talked about the Taiwanese Cut just for Yi! :p

I think summarising, the first reel (judging currently by YouTube and captures!) does look overall excellent (with some shots, Dimension has a bit of advantage). However, further on in the film (arrival at Jing Mo School), things seem to weaken - there maybe contrast boosting on DD when clothes are just a dark shadow, where as on Dimension, you can see all the detail (Jet's jacket as he's tying his shoe). The colour also looks a bit forced towards the red/purple (?) side, but I do agree Dimension does appear to have an look of over-saturation sometimes.

You're just referring to the levels/colours here right? Overall the image is roucher for the first act on the BD because grain is higher, EE thicker, print damage heavier. It's a real shame that I don't own the Dimension DVD to compare to as it looks like it might be a happy medium, levels-wise between the Dragon Dynasty and HK Video releases.

[chenlung]

Took me long enough but my review is now up.

Thanks Shingster! Good review - just a few things:

On VHS (prior to Dimension's releases), the Hong Kong version (with subtitles) was released by Tai Seng in the US, and Made In Hong Kong in the UK.

Info about Rolling Thunder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Thunder_Pictures) - they acquired it, then Dimension released it (my earlier post was kind-of wrong, it was RT that was screwed over).

Another possible reason for the judge's line is, it was looped poorly originally and DD thought for the average Joe, they'd simply replace it with Dimension's dub (as they work harder at mouth-syncing) for that one moment.

Obviously, I'm not as confidant about the "very solid" video beating other editions . For me, it's HD and certainly not terrible (it looks acceptable for the majority to an extent), but there's the issues covered in the review and the topic.

LOL at the "emotionless robot" . I'd be interested in watching the export English version (found on the Spanish DVD) - also to see the visual quality.

In the menus, Yasuaki's name is reversed IMDB-style .

I do agree about the overall summary - the extras are clearly brilliant (with the exception of the featurette with Brett Ratner), it's just everywhere else that's lacking and makes it difficult to decide.

You're just referring to the levels/colours here right? Overall the image is roucher for the first act on the BD because grain is higher, EE thicker, print damage heavier. It's a real shame that I don't own the Dimension DVD to compare to as it looks like it might be a happy medium, levels-wise between the Dragon Dynasty and HK Video releases.

Yeah . It's on TV sometimes (anamorphic too it would appear) if you're unable to rent it or whatever.

[grim_tales]

You're right about the VHS releases Chen. Siren released it in Australia too.

[Markgway]

Kurata is his surname.

[Shingster]

Thanks for the feedback Chen, I've ammended the review to include the more accurate info and put in the comment about the dub, I still can't decide to this date which dub fits the Judge's lip better as they both look blatantly out of synch to me and therefore I wasn't sure about commenting on it!

Obviously, I'm not as confidant about the "very solid" video beating other editions . For me, it's HD and certainly not terrible (it looks acceptable for the majority to an extent), but there's the issues covered in the review and the topic.

I think that's a bit of an understatement! No aspect of the image is ruined by this transfer: yes the levels could be a little more natural and the colour scheme could be improved upon, but what we have in the HD transfer is a perfectly watchable and enjoyable presentation of the film. It's possible that the Dimension DVD has the best levels and colours to date, but let's not overlook the fact that it is as soft as a marshmellow because it doesn't have the resolution to truly satisfy viewers with displays over 50 inches. The increase in clarity between the Blu-ray and the Dimension DVD is significant enough to overide the differences in levels and colours. Speaking as someone who recently watched the HK Video, CineAsia BD and a good chunk of the Dragon Dynasty DVD, the difference in detail between the HK Video and BD was monumental on a large display and I'd expect the Dimension to look pretty close to the HKVideo in terms of sharpness on a big screen.

I remember the mantra that HK fans always say whenever they pick apart the latest releases of HK classics: "All we want is the uncut film presented with decent video, decent audio and decent subs". Well the BD is cut so it fails there, it maybe barely qualifies on the subtitles front, but would anyone argue that it fails on the actual presentation?

Kurata is his surname.

Yup, Kurata Yasuaki is technically the right way to write his name. I've never understood why Japanese names are traditionally westernised when written down in the west but Chinese and Korean names kept the "family name first" format (until recently of course).

[bradavon]

How weird, Cine-asia would take the BD Dragon Dynasty had the done the work on, make sure the extras are PAL (fair enough) but then fix up the subs. You'd think they'd fix it all up (from a technical standpoint) or not at all.

[chenlung]

Thanks for the feedback Chen, I've ammended the review to include the more accurate info and put in the comment about the dub

Cheers. The overall section still says about there being no UK/US release .

I don't think the HK studios made any forced demands as such. It seems more that RT were only sent the international version (perhaps the deal didn't go as they wanted/expected?), and when they enquired about the HK version, they were told they'd have to pay for it (maybe costing a lot?).

I still can't decide to this date which dub fits the Judge's lip better as they both look blatantly out of synch to me and therefore I wasn't sure about commenting on it!

Interestingly, the export version (instead of Dimension's) has reportedly aired on US TV. If I get that, I'll report back on what is said. It's possible he messed his lines up originally .

I think that's a bit of an understatement! No aspect of the image is ruined by this transfer: yes the levels could be a little more natural and the colour scheme could be improved upon, but what we have in the HD transfer is a perfectly watchable and enjoyable presentation of the film.

I probably would forget about the differences whilst watching (even if things like whites do glare out a bit on the display). Don't get me wrong, it is genuine HD and that's great - it does generally look consistent and fine, but just not absolutely top notch (the other factor being stuff like print damage - all the stuff marked down on your review ) - also considering when you see some other Blu-Rays generally .

Yup, Kurata Yasuaki is technically the right way to write his name. I've never understood why Japanese names are traditionally westernised when written down in the west but Chinese and Korean names kept the "family name first" format (until recently of course).

Interesting.

How weird, Cine-asia would take the BD Dragon Dynasty had the done the work on, make sure the extras are PAL (fair enough) but then fix up the subs. You'd think they'd fix it all up (from a technical standpoint) or not at all.

Because the Spanish subtitles on DD's disc are (bizarrely) based on the improved English subtitles, I doubt Cine-Asia did any fixing.

[bradavon]

Because the Spanish subtitles on DD's disc are (bizarrely) based on the improved English subtitles, I doubt Cine-Asia did any fixing.

So are you saying DD have two sets of subs at their disposal? But opted to not used the correct ones? WTF!

[chenlung]

Because the Spanish subtitles on DD's disc are (bizarrely) based on the improved English subtitles, I doubt Cine-Asia did any fixing.

So are you saying DD have two sets of subs at their disposal? But opted to not used the correct ones? WTF!

Who knows!

[Shingster]

The overall section still says about there being no UK/US release .

Gah, "overall" sections! Fixed it now, thanks!

[chenlung]

The overall section still says about there being no UK/US release .

Gah, "overall" sections! Fixed it now, thanks!

It's a good review mate!

[Shingster]

Hehe, thanks! Took me long enough to bleedin' finish it though, was definitely one of the hardest reviews to write and I'm not entirely sure why - I had an easier time reviewing The Seventh Seal! Mght just be down to how many times I've seen the film over the years and how revered it tends to be, and most of all knowing I had to really delve into the technical aspects of the release to give the HK film fanbase the information they would be specifically looking for.

[Markgway]

I admit that I do list Japanese names the western way (ie. Yasuaki Kurata) and Chinese names the Asian way (ie. Chin Siu-Ho). That seems to be the accepted norm. If you do it any other way you'll confuse most fans.

[bradavon]

Japanese people spell their names the same as Chinese though. They are used to spelling it the western way too though.

[Shingster]

I admit that I do list Japanese names the western way (ie. Yasuaki Kurata) and Chinese names the Asian way (ie. Chin Siu-Ho). That seems to be the accepted norm. If you do it any other way you'll confuse most fans.

Yup I do as well, there comes a point when everyone else is used to the the westernised format that you feel like a pretentious tit by sticking to the Japanese standard! I do sometimes slip up and switch from using the westernised format for some actors and then use the Japanese way for characters because my mind remembers the names from how they're said on screen than written in the subs!