UK release: King Boxer

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 20 Feb 2009, 23:05

You say ONLY advantage like it's only something minor. The R3 of CDWM is letterboxed and remixed.

You're quite right. I should have said "Even though everything else is greatly improved, a few things such as the subtitles are left to be desired."

The subs on the DD cannot possibly be so bad as to warrant a preference of inferior image and audio.

As suggested above, I disagree with that.

It's been said that the R1 subtitles are very bad and are actually inferior to the R3 subtitles. However, those won't be very good either and elsewhere, a faulty commentary, a non-anamorphic PAL>NTSC transfer and 5.1 remix are on offer.

I wouldn't buy either 'Come Drink With Me' DVD - re-doing the subtitles onto DD's version would make for the best edition of the film available (from Momentum at a later date?), hence why I recommended that people hold off.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 21 Feb 2009, 00:35

chenlung wrote:As suggested above, I disagree with that.

You think the (presumably only marginally) better subs on the R3 are a justification for preferring it over the A/V superiorities of the R1? I like good subs but that's taking it too far surely? Letterboxed transfers look crap on an LCD TV. Progressive anamorphic is a significant leap upward in terms of quality and then there's the offensiveness of bad 5.1 remixing. Can you give me examples of these R1 subs that are SOOO bad that the above would be preferable?

I wouldn't buy either 'Come Drink With Me' DVD - re-doing the subtitles onto DD's version would make for the best edition of the film available (from Momentum at a later date?), hence why I recommended that people hold off.

Assuming that Momentum release CDWM. Has it been confirmed? Do they have the rights to that particular title? Is there any guarantee that they'll redo the subs? You can wait forever for a "perfect" version. And if 36th Chamber and King Boxer sell poorly (and Kung Fu movies don't sell well in the UK) we might not see new and improved releases for a long time.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 21 Feb 2009, 00:57

You think the (presumably only marginally) better subs on the R3 are a justification for preferring it over the A/V superiorities of the R1?

No, that's why I recommended you wait, as both have problems (one's worse than the other in certain departments). Yes, it might be a little while and as we know, it's not definite, but if you want, you could try and get a custom that has R3's subtitles with DD's presentation in the meantime.

Progressive anamorphic is a significant leap upward in terms of quality

Do you remember the progressive situation of Media Blasters' products a little while ago?

Can you give me examples of these R1 subs that are SOOO bad that the above would be preferable?

I can't as I don't have access to either, but it's been reported DD's are actually worse than R3s. If you get worse than the existing substandard, then...

I want progressive and mono too, but I don't want to be watching it with a shit set of subtitles that just ruin the experience.

You can wait forever for a "perfect" version.

I don't expect to wait for a "perfect" (nor did I use that word, because there will be a problem somehow) version, merely one that is better than what's available (which is possible because of Momentum's deal, but not definite).

And if 36th Chamber and King Boxer sell poorly (and Kung Fu movies don't sell well in the UK) we might not see new and improved releases for a long time.

I did consider that, but we'll just have to see - I've not been told a lot.

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 21 Feb 2009, 01:23

grim_tales wrote:It may have been on DVD Talk Ivan, can't remember.
5 Venoms is amusing when it plays the same music as at the start of Holy Grail, you're tempted to say "All the action directors have been sacked"

Yes, Snake & Crane does that too! Also, its in Dawn of the Dead. the track came from the De Wolfe Music library

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 21 Feb 2009, 01:33

"I can't as I don't have access to either, but it's been reported DD's are actually worse than R3s. If you get worse than the existing substandard, then..."

Aside from Come Drink With me renaming the characters, they are equal or better than the IVLs. Don't belive Gil's rabid anti-DD bullshit

oldeschool17 · Post by **oldeschool17** » 21 Feb 2009, 04:30

Markgway wrote:
chenlung wrote:As suggested above, I disagree with that.
You think the (presumably only marginally) better subs on the R3 are a justification for preferring it over the A/V superiorities of the R1? I like good subs but that's taking it too far surely? Letterboxed transfers look crap on an LCD TV. Progressive anamorphic is a significant leap upward in terms of quality and then there's the offensiveness of bad 5.1 remixing. Can you give me examples of these R1 subs that are SOOO bad that the above would be preferable?

I wouldn't buy either 'Come Drink With Me' DVD - re-doing the subtitles onto DD's version would make for the best edition of the film available (from Momentum at a later date?), hence why I recommended that people hold off.
Assuming that Momentum release CDWM. Has it been confirmed? Do they have the rights to that particular title? Is there any guarantee that they'll redo the subs? You can wait forever for a "perfect" version. And if 36th Chamber and King Boxer sell poorly (and Kung Fu movies don't sell well in the UK) we might not see new and improved releases for a long time.

I'm with you on this. Id prefer better picture/mono over the questionable quality of subs any day. As a asian cinema fan, one cant set the bar too high in expecting every department to be up to par or expect any distro to come thru with your every wishes.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 22 Feb 2009, 15:58

I also noticed they say "kong fu" on the DD for kung fu

Made me laugh

Drunken Cat's song is translated all wrong (or I assume), the R3 subs aren't great but better (surely more accurate) than DD's subs IMO. Now I own both releases.
What was wrong with the commentary (R3 or R1?) I remember Marsha (yum) Yuan sounded REALLY LOUD in comparison to the others.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 22 Feb 2009, 16:32

The R3 commentary has shitty levels as you mentioned, Marsha is said to just giggle throughout. With the R1 commentary, I assume they get to do it properly.

Can you provide examples where aside from names, they both differ?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 22 Feb 2009, 18:17

I remember in the R3, Drunken Cat's song goes something like "Wonderful wine, wonderful wine" in the R1 he's singing about "noodle rice soup"? Surely the R3 subs make more sense as he's a drunken beggar.
Sorry thats not much help

I'd have to watch properly for a transcript/differences.
Marsha isnt on the R1 commentary is she? Isnt it a new one? (I havent heard it yet BTW).

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 22 Feb 2009, 18:19

there's a new dub on the DD of COme Drink With Me. Could these be dubtitles?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 22 Feb 2009, 18:42

Hmmm. I've never sampled the dub. I heard DD used very old theatrical (HK? US?) subtitles. I'll check out the dub then.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 22 Feb 2009, 18:57

chenlung wrote:but if you want, you could try and get a custom that has R3's subtitles with DD's presentation in the meantime.

I prefer originals with artwork to DVD-Rs. There would have to be no good release for me to go down that route.

Do you remember the progressive situation of Media Blasters' products a little while ago?

I never bought any Media Blasters titles so I'm not sure.

I can't as I don't have access to either, but it's been reported DD's are actually worse than R3s. If you get worse than the existing substandard, then...

Well, if I remember I'll post a comparison when I get the R1.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 22 Feb 2009, 19:27

I prefer originals with artwork to DVD-Rs. There would have to be no good release for me to go down that route.

I would want originals as well (I'm also paying for it too, which would only be fair), but I don't want to put up with bad subtitles if they are worse than R3s in general (not that I recommend the R3 either) for the sake of having an "original".

I never bought any Media Blasters titles so I'm not sure.

Well, I complained a lot about the lack of progressive to the point MB did render their films progressive, so I don't take it lightly

.

Well, if I remember I'll post a comparison when I get the R1.

Good for you

.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 22 Feb 2009, 20:36

chenlung wrote:I would want originals as well (I'm also paying for it too, which would only be fair), but I don't want to put up with bad subtitles if they are worse than R3s in general (not that I recommend the R3 either) for the sake of having an "original".

I would pay for an original but not a DVD-R. That would be absurd.

Well, I complained a lot about the lack of progressive to the point MB did render their films progressive, so I don't take it lightly .

DD's discs are all progressive though and it's CDWM I'm talking about.

Well, if I remember I'll post a comparison when I get the R1.

Good for you .

What's with the sarcasm?

oldeschool17 · Post by **oldeschool17** » 22 Feb 2009, 20:49

Chen, I think the only discs ive ever seen you or running man acknowledge a good release is Challenge of the Masters and Deadly Duo. Are those the only discs that pass the "test" under your criteria(although, i could have recalled you did not like the video or something on the interviews)? Could you list any other kung fu movies to this point that you are happy with. I'll go on a limb and say that list is far less than the ones that upset you

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 22 Feb 2009, 20:51

Markgway wrote:I would pay for an original but not a DVD-R. That would be absurd.

Of course, but I was referring to the fact that by getting the custom, I'm not paying to see the film.

DD's discs are all progressive though and it's CDWM I'm talking about.

I was just saying that I take progressive seriously too, but I'd rather have a custom if bad subtitles were on side.

What's with the sarcasm?

Well, I suppose it's your choice, but without knowing the extent of DD's subtitles, I wouldn't buy it and as much as they don't look nice, nor would I be paying for it fairly, getting a custom would be better if it means better subs. If Momentum comes along and does release it with better subs, you'll have wasted your money.

oldeschool17 · Post by **oldeschool17** » 22 Feb 2009, 20:52

chenlung wrote:
I prefer originals with artwork to DVD-Rs. There would have to be no good release for me to go down that route.
I would want originals as well (I'm also paying for it too, which would only be fair), but I don't want to put up with bad subtitles if they are worse than R3s in general (not that I recommend the R3 either) for the sake of having an "original".

I never bought any Media Blasters titles so I'm not sure.
Well, I complained a lot about the lack of progressive to the point MB did render their films progressive, so I don't take it lightly .

Well, if I remember I'll post a comparison when I get the R1.
Good for you .

yes but without gfanikf playing with media blaster's nutsack, that change may not have happen. make sure you thank him!

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 22 Feb 2009, 21:05

I'm not sure Gfanikf was that bothered about it being interlaced.

oldeschool17 · Post by **oldeschool17** » 22 Feb 2009, 21:39

He can be bothered to self proclaim himself as being responsible for unearthing dubs for the illiterate masses.

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 22 Feb 2009, 21:39

oldeschool17 wrote:Chen, I think the only discs ive ever seen you or running man acknowledge a good release is Challenge of the Masters and Deadly Duo. Are those the only discs that pass the "test" under your criteria(although, i could have recalled you did not like the video or something on the interviews)? Could you list any other kung fu movies to this point that you are happy with. I'll go on a limb and say that list is far less than the ones that upset you

Chen is anal, Running Man/Gil has an anti Bey Logan/Dragon Dynasty agenda. There is a difference

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 22 Feb 2009, 21:51

I wouldn't describe myself as anal, more that people (including so-called "reviewers") are just stupid and only purist when they want to be. When someone's called "anal", it's only because of an error that the author was too lazy/incapable of checking or fixing a particular thing that may appear to be minor in an overview.

The only faults of 'Deadly Duo' I found were the interlacing problems on David Chiang's featurette (lines appear at the side for some reason permanently whenever there's movement) and again the trailers aren't progressive (I would have tightened up the subtitles a bit more) - the mono soundtrack had the new brassier version of the Shaw ident. I wrote a review of 'Challenge' at KFC's forum.

oldeschool17 · Post by **oldeschool17** » 22 Feb 2009, 22:08

chenlung wrote:I wouldn't describe myself as anal, more that people (including so-called "reviewers") are just stupid and only purist when they want to be. When someone's called "anal", it's only because of an error that the author was too lazy/incapable of checking or fixing a particular thing that may appear to be minor in an overview.

The only faults of 'Deadly Duo' I found were the interlacing problems on David Chiang's featurette (lines appear at the side for some reason permanently whenever there's movement) and again the trailers aren't progressive (I would have tightened up the subtitles a bit more) - the mono soundtrack had the new brassier version of the Shaw ident. I wrote a review of 'Challenge' at KFC's forum.

Id check out that review but i don't bother with that forum any more. Too many morons visiting one url at the same time. That David Chiang featurette should be the same one that was on the IVL which surprise, is interlaced. Did you expect it to be different? You should be a subtitle writer for asian cinema.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 22 Feb 2009, 22:17

It should be the same on as on IVL (both are NTSC), but it's got this problem. Ti Lung's is fine, which is why I wondered further. I remember Kung Fu Bob brought it up.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 23 Feb 2009, 14:59

chenlung wrote:I was just saying that I take progressive seriously too, but I'd rather have a custom if bad subtitles were on side.

Nobody likes bad subs... but a disc would have to be fairly wretched for me to opt for a custom job instead.

Well, I suppose it's your choice, but without knowing the extent of DD's subtitles, I wouldn't buy it and as much as they don't look nice, nor would I be paying for it fairly, getting a custom would be better if it means better subs.

How can you slag off DD's subs without having seen them? They might be worse than IVL's (which weren't that great to start with) but you should at least see them for yourself before telling everyone how much they suck.

If Momentum comes along and does release it with better subs, you'll have wasted your money.

Lol... I'm hardly going to burst into tears. I'd just sell the DD down the second hand shop. Nothing to worry about it. And if Momentum DON'T release it...? Or release an inferior version you'll look like a tit... 8)

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 23 Feb 2009, 15:38

I'd wait and see if Momentum have the rights to CDWM or not...