The Wong Kar-wai thread!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 31 Jan 2009, 02:19

Thanks for the DVD Beaver link. I was hoping to check out my BD before I go away on business (back Wednesday) but it will have to wait now.

I forgot to mention the BD is Region Free but it looks like the extras are PAL. Except for the over use of yellow, the BD looks fine IMO. At least it's watchable at last.

HungFist wrote:Long live the French dvd that beats this crap anytime.

That's massively cut, so I don't think it should be considered either. It also has no English subs, killing it for most people.

This point from that DVD Beaver link is worth highlighting. I'm surprised you guys are dismissing the Redux so easily, all this talk about "The Director's Vision". This is it! - The ReDux represents what Wong calls the 'definitive' version as the early releases were altered, by Asian distributors, without his consent

HungFist wrote:Looks disgusting

The trouble is, so does every other version (except maybe the French DVD), a fact everyone saying how awful the Redux is are completely deliberately ignoring.

It's no lie to say the USA and HK (Original) DVDs are truly hideous and unwatchable. I owned the HK DVD for awhile. I'm amazed I managed to sit through it, the subtitles especially were so hard to work out.

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 31 Jan 2009, 09:39

Another BD rev
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/blu-ray ... -uk-2.html

bradavon wrote:
HungFist wrote:Long live the French dvd that beats this crap anytime.
That's massively cut, so I don't think it should be considered either. It also has no English subs, killing it for most people.

It's massively cut, yes. But it's still a far superior cut to the Redux. Redux is missing almost as many scenes, plus has stupid additions (cgi, dividing the film into seasons, adding images of flowers...). And most importantly, Int cut has the original soundtrack when the redux has some Yo Yo Ma bullshit that weakens some scenes and totally wrecks others.

bradavon wrote: This point from that DVD Beaver link is worth highlighting. I'm surprised you guys are dismissing the Redux so easily, all this talk about "The Director's Vision". This is it! - The ReDux represents what Wong calls the 'definitive' version as the early releases were altered, by Asian distributors, without his consent

I'm sure I read before that the Int cut was cut by Wong himself. I don't know if it was true then.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 31 Jan 2009, 15:50

I've just watched the Redux BD (first time I've ever seen the film in any form) and I absolutely loved it

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 31 Jan 2009, 15:59

Why does one shot of the Redux look bright yellow like someone has painted the sand yellow or pissed on it?

I'll have to watch my VHS of AoT (never seen the film before).

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 31 Jan 2009, 18:35

grim_tales wrote:Why does one shot of the Redux look bright yellow like someone has painted the sand yellow or pissed on it?

It's fine in context, the scene is a bright sunny day. The guy's vision has got so bad that he can only see in such brightness, so it makes sense that the scene is like that when he has to fight everyone, otherwise he wouldn't stand a chance in hell (thus making a continuity error). Therefore the Redux is correct, the old one isn't.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 31 Jan 2009, 18:43

Fair enough, I didnt know that

monzo44 · Post by **monzo44** » 03 Feb 2009, 09:33

HungFist wrote:http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompar ... oftime.htm

Looks disgusting, just like it (redux) did in theaters. Long live the French dvd that beats this crap anytime.

Some more FR caps that approximately match with the BD caps.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/S ... esFRa5.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/S ... esFRa4.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/S ... esFRa3.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/S ... esFRa2.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/S ... esFRa1.jpg

and one large cap:
https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... hesnig.jpg

The Redux colour palette and saturation levels look far closer to the original publicity material for AoT. I've got lobby cards and press books from the original release and the original film on video/VCD/DVD never looked like the publicity materials. Perhaps tis 'is' how it should have looked!!

monzo

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 03 Feb 2009, 15:30

publicity materials aren't much to go by. Half of stills are black & white you know.

As for how the film is supposed to look like, I don't know. I don't even know how it looked like on its initial theatrical run. But keep in mind, George Lucas also "intended" his films to be full of cgi. He just didn't have the technology back then...

I'm happy with the French dvd because looks and sounds good. The Redux has ugly colours, ugly cgi, and ugly soundtrack. The visual look suffers a lot, and the change of soundtrack lessens the impact even more.

I've always considered Ashes a masterpiece, no matter if it was the orig. cut of the int. cut. But when watching the Redux, I didn't feel too much anything. It was just an ok film. The punch and brilliancy it used to have was no longer there.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 03 Feb 2009, 15:40

I thought everything about the Redux was amazing, definitely including the music.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 03 Feb 2009, 19:30

I think anyone with eyes, ears, and a rational brain would argue that Ashes of Time looks and sounds pretty good regardless of which incarnation you go for. You only have to go see the screendgrabs from Redux on DVDBeaver to see that it's far from an ugly film. It just has a bolder, slightly more garish look.

Of course this is the world of the Internet and petulant drooling fans are always on hand to fly completely over the top when the intended look of a film is tampered with.

[RANT MODE]"OMFG what has he done, it looks horrendous, my grandmother's sick is more aesthetically pleasing! I'm never buying another HK film EVAAAAAA!!! FUCK WONG KAR WAI lolzzz!!![/RANT MODE]

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 03 Feb 2009, 19:43

Oh come on Shing. You can't seriously think adding that giant CGI sun, removing half of the film's original music, cutting it by 10 minutes, and giving it that new fashionable visual look was a good idea. Not even Lucas went that far.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 04 Feb 2009, 00:48

I never said I prefer Redux over the original, I'm just saying the film still looks nice.

BTW why are you criticising Redux for being "cut by 10minutes" when you champion the French DVD?

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 04 Feb 2009, 01:06

I dont give a shit about the bogus arguments from WKW about the quality of the video and sound not being up to par to just release it as it was.

I have an old Siren VHS which has far from perfect videoquality, but at least it's uncut, subbed, and has the original music. That's all I want. Would have been nice to have been able to get that version on DVD, and it could be a straight VHS-to-DVD copy for all I care, but I am never going to buy the cut-up, screwed up REDUX version.

What a jack-ass that WKW is.

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 04 Feb 2009, 06:36

Shingster wrote:I never said I prefer Redux over the original, I'm just saying the film still looks nice.

The problem with the visuals in redux is that - aside from looking ugly - the new manipulated palette and cgi makes it look a like fantasy picture. The original looks so jaw droppingly good because the visuals are amazing yet realistic.

Shingster wrote: BTW why are you criticising Redux for being "cut by 10minutes" when you champion the French DVD?

Can't get everything when it comes to Ashes. So you gotta settle for a compromise. You can take the original cut on dvd, and lose something due to poor dvd quality. Or you can take the French dvd, and lose something due to the cuts. And then there's the Redux, which is basically an entirely different film with different atmosphere.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 04 Feb 2009, 09:57

Yi is the Siren VHS about the same video quality as the HK DVD or better?

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 04 Feb 2009, 10:44

HungFist wrote:The problem with the visuals in redux is that - aside from looking ugly - the new manipulated palette and cgi makes it look a like fantasy picture.

Makes Ashes of Time look like a fantasy picture? For god's sake man it IS a fantasy picture!

Sure it follows the themes from his other dramas, but it was always shot as and intended to be Wu Xia Pian.

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks visuals like this are "ugly" shouldn't really be talking about the aesthetics of cinema:

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 04 Feb 2009, 11:06

grim_tales wrote:Yi is the Siren VHS about the same video quality as the HK DVD or better?

I wouldnt know, Grim. I hear the HKDVD is really bad, so I never bought it.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 04 Feb 2009, 11:12

Ah OK
Yeah, I heard the HK DVD is supposed to be REALLY bad but if its the only way to see the film uncut, subbed, original music etc on DVD...
I have a DVD-VHS copy (*ahem*) but havent watched it yet.

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 04 Feb 2009, 12:57

Shingster wrote:
HungFist wrote:The problem with the visuals in redux is that - aside from looking ugly - the new manipulated palette and cgi makes it look a like fantasy picture.
Makes Ashes of Time look like a fantasy picture? For god's sake man it IS a fantasy picture!

All movies are. But I don't want Ashes to looks like something where a goblin is about to walk into the screen in the next scene.

Besides, Chris Doyle did amazing job capturing those visuals. Now the entire visual look is as if it was created with a computer (well, I guess it was).

But I guess most people are happy when a film is given as processed and colourful over the top look as possible. Cause it's beautiful.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 04 Feb 2009, 15:49

HungFist wrote:All movies are. But I don't want Ashes to looks like something where a goblin is about to walk into the screen in the next scene.

Complete rubbish.

HungFist wrote:Besides, Chris Doyle did amazing job capturing those visuals. Now the entire visual look is as if it was created with a computer (well, I guess it was).

Complete rubbish, it's only really the desert sequences that look that extreme.

HungFist wrote:But I guess most people are happy when a film is given as processed and colourful over the top look as possible. Cause it's beautiful.

Complete rubbish. Considering how long you have been reading our posts on these boards, if you think I or gasteropod are anything like that then you are deluded.

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 04 Feb 2009, 16:25

Shingster wrote:
HungFist wrote:All movies are. But I don't want Ashes to looks like something where a goblin is about to walk into the screen in the next scene.
Complete rubbish.

Good argument.

Shingster wrote:
HungFist wrote:Besides, Chris Doyle did amazing job capturing those visuals. Now the entire visual look is as if it was created with a computer (well, I guess it was).
Complete rubbish, it's only really the desert sequences that look that extreme.

Ok, so the desert sequences look much worse (thank god there ain't many of those) while the others only look worse.

Shingster wrote:
HungFist wrote:But I guess most people are happy when a film is given as processed and colourful over the top look as possible. Cause it's beautiful.
Complete rubbish. Considering how long you have been reading our posts on these boards, if you think I or gasteropod are anything like that then you are deluded.

Don't take it so personally. You know I wasn't referring to anything but your comments in this thread.

Redux DVD review:
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content/id/69 ... redux.html#

Yeah, the caps all look ugly

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 04 Feb 2009, 18:43

Shingster wrote:I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks visuals like this are "ugly" shouldn't really be talking about the aesthetics of cinema:

I love that shot, it looks like it could be a piece of art.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 04 Feb 2009, 18:50

Can anyone here shed any light on which version of 'Happy Together' looks how it's supposed to? Look at the last two caps of the pic comparison!!!

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content/id/69 ... ether.html

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 04 Feb 2009, 19:15

That's one beautiful shot.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 04 Feb 2009, 20:33

HungFist wrote:Good argument.

Well I'm sorry Hung, but there simply is no "good argument" when faced with such nonsensical comments as "I don't want Ashes of Time to look like a fantasy film". That's a bit like saying "I don't want OUATIC to look like a period martial arts film".

Redux DVD review:
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content/id/69 ... redux.html#

Yeah, the caps all look ugly

And yet the reviewer praises the visuals. I wonder how many comments/reviews you can find that share your opinion that WKW's tampering as now made Ashes of Time an "ugly" film?

gasteropod wrote:I love that shot, it looks like it could be a piece of art.

Shame it looks ugly now!