Martyrs

Cinema Releases, and Rumours/Discussion of Upcoming Films
User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 11917
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Martyrs

Post by HungFist »

This film caused some fuss in Cannes, where some people thought it was a masterpiece, while others thought the director should be locked up. It got rated ’18’ in France, although it went down to ’16’ after three reconsideration (which is fucking insane, I’d rate this film ’21’ if such rating existed).

Anyway, not an entirely succesfull film, comes with some weak turns, but it is incredibly powerful. Haute Tension and À l'intérieur seem harmless joyrides in comparison. Enjoyable in probably not the best word to describe the film, but as an experience it is most likely stronger than the last 100 movies you saw put together. It was a bloody quiet cinema when the film ended.

Works absolutely best if you don’t know the storyline, so don’t read about it. And don’t watch the spoiler filled trailer and pics. Below is a teaser that doesn’t spoil much (only features shots from the first two scenes).

http://www.gomorrahy.com/images/martyrs_ts1.mov

+ a couple of non-spoiling quotes

The most talked-about, shocked-about and divisive movie at the Cannes Film Festival this year wasn’t an entry in any of the competitive strands. It was only screened twice in the marketplace, and quickly became the hottest topic of every conversation.
– – Laugier’s esoteric development of an everyday tabloid headline into a Clive Barker-esque underworld nightmare is a challenging, disturbing and thoroughly uncompromising work. – – The rewards are truly astonishing in what emerges as the most strangely beautiful, utterly thrilling and profoundly astounding shock conclusion of a horror film in some time. – – It couldn’t be bolder in this era of blandness, caution and self-censoring that seems sadly endemic in production and distribution systems.

– ALAN JONES, FANGORIA

An upsetting modern masterpiece that will leave you thinking long after the credits have rolled and the final dedication is to Dario Argento. This will be a hot potato for any festival brave enough to screen this.
– PAUL MCEVOY, FRIGHTFEST

Image
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

Thanks Hung. Is this just a revenge movie or does it have more to it? I don't like most "revenge movies".

For the French censors to give this 18 it must be tough. What's the real difference between the 16 or 18 rating though? I presume 16 is more a teenager rating and 18 an adult rating. I cannot see many complaining if a 15 rated film got an 18 in The UK.
User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 11917
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Post by HungFist »

bradavon wrote:Thanks Hung. Is this just a revenge movie or does it have more to it? I don't like most "revenge movies".
It does have quite a bit more to it.
bradavon wrote: I cannot see many complaining if a 15 rated film got an 18 in The UK.
In France there's a world of difference. Almost nothing ever gets rated 18 there. If it's 18 in France, then it's most likely banned in the UK :lol:

Still, Martyrs isn't the most graphic film ever made. The horror is more psychological, which is why it's so strong. In terms of graphic violence it's about the same level, or a notch below, as the other recent hard gore horror movies.

Quite honestly, and please don't take this by any offence, I'm not sure this is a film you would enjoy. Myself I'm amazed this was picked for public distribution in Finland (they still have time to change their mind though, as the release date is in December according to IMDB) because this is not a film for normal audiences. It's simply too strong.
User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 20193
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Post by Markgway »

Wasn't Baise Moi the last film to get an 18 in France?
Image
User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 11917
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Post by HungFist »

Probably.

I think one of the Saw films initially got 18 but it went down to 16 after complaints.
dvdvision
Pedicab Driver
Posts: 296
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 11:10

Post by dvdvision »

You can read my early review of Martyrs here (no spoilers)

http://www.dvdvision.fr/menu/index.php? ... 6&Itemid=1

Just use google translation from french to english to get most of it.
Last edited by dvdvision on 18 Apr 2009, 16:27, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 11917
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Post by HungFist »

The director was also supposed have a chat with us in Helsinki, but all we got was a polite letter from him stating he's stuck in L.A with Hollywood producers :x
dvdvision
Pedicab Driver
Posts: 296
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 11:10

Post by dvdvision »

Don't worry, You'll get another chance I'm sure 8)
User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 11917
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Post by HungFist »

I meant it would sad if Hollywood swallowed him already. See what happened to Alexande Aja; he just finished his second Hollywood remake in a row.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

HungFist wrote:It does have quite a bit more to it.
How is that remotely a spoiler? :D. Any vaguer you'd have said:

HungFist wrote:In France there's a world of difference. Almost nothing ever gets rated 18 there. If it's 18 in France, then it's most likely banned in the UK :lol:
Fair enough. I really meant, how does 16 really differ from 18 though? It's only 2 years.

I can appreciate the French consider people adults at 16 or old enough to handle what the UK considers 18 and America R but by that taken their 18 has to be such strong material, yet the person is only 2 years old, weird!
HungFist wrote:Still, Martyrs isn't the most graphic film ever made. The horror is more psychological, which is why it's so strong. In terms of graphic violence it's about the same level, or a notch below, as the other recent hard gore horror movies.
Thanks. I wonder how they did that missing hand trick in the trailer. I cannot see it being CGI.
HungFist wrote:Quite honestly, and please don't take this by any offence, I'm not sure this is a film you would enjoy.
It's cool, neither do I.
HungFist wrote:The director was also supposed have a chat with us in Helsinki, but all we got was a polite letter from him stating he's stuck in L.A with Hollywood producers :x
At Uni?
User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 11917
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Post by HungFist »

bradavon wrote:
HungFist wrote:It does have quite a bit more to it.
How is that remotely a spoiler? :D. Any vaguer you'd have said:
My reply was a spoiler because it confirmed the revenge theme that you brought up (and which I intentionally didn't mention before)
bradavon wrote:
HungFist wrote:In France there's a world of difference. Almost nothing ever gets rated 18 there. If it's 18 in France, then it's most likely banned in the UK :lol:
Fair enough. I really meant, how does 16 really differ from 18 though? It's only 2 years.[/spoiler]
Around that age 2 years can mean quite a lot.

Personally I think most 18 rated films could be passed 15 or 16. Stuff like Commando and Kill Bill may be violent, but it's so far from reality that a 15 year old should get it. If he doesn't, then extra 2 years isn't gonna make any difference.

Some films, such as Martyrs, maybe Hellraiser (I saw it when I was 14, so maybe the 'bad memory - young age' combination has made it wilder in my mind than it truly is...) deserve an 18 rating. There is some pretty shocking stuff out there.
bradavon wrote:
HungFist wrote:Still, Martyrs isn't the most graphic film ever made. The horror is more psychological, which is why it's so strong. In terms of graphic violence it's about the same level, or a notch below, as the other recent hard gore horror movies.
Thanks. I wonder how they did that missing hand trick in the trailer. I cannot see it being CGI.
Missing hand? Which trailer?
bradavon wrote:
HungFist wrote:The director was also supposed have a chat with us in Helsinki, but all we got was a polite letter from him stating he's stuck in L.A with Hollywood producers :x
At Uni?
No.

Shinji Imaoka visited the university but unfortunately I didn't have a chance to go listen to him.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

HungFist wrote:Stuff like Commando and Kill Bill may be violent, but it's so far from reality that a 15 year old should get it. If he doesn't, then extra 2 years isn't gonna make any difference.
True. Oddly when it's fantasy violence it's okay. Look at Lord of the Rings. They're easily as violent as Kill Bill yet are rated PG.
HungFist wrote:Missing hand? Which trailer?
The one you posted.
User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 11917
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Post by HungFist »

bradavon wrote:
HungFist wrote:Missing hand? Which trailer?
The one you posted.
Have I become blind? I don't see any hand missing.
User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 22161
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Post by grim_tales »

LOTR as violent as Kill Bill? I dont think so :D
TTT/ROTK are 12 rated :)
User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 20193
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Post by Markgway »

bradavon wrote:Look at Lord of the Rings. They're easily as violent as Kill Bill yet are rated PG.
You what?? :lol:
Image
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

Okay nearly as violent. Check out the end of LOTR: FOTR. It has decapitations. If the same violence was in LOTR but with people they would easily be 15.
HungFist wrote:Have I become blind? I don't see any hand missing.
Maybe her left hand is present, watch it again. See what I mean?
User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 11917
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Post by HungFist »

bradavon wrote:
HungFist wrote:Have I become blind? I don't see any hand missing.
Maybe her left hand is present, watch it again. See what I mean?
Her left hand was very much present in the film :wink:
bradavon wrote:Okay nearly as violent. Check out the end of LOTR: FOTR. It has decapitations. If the same violence was in LOTR but with people they would easily be 15.
Perhaps you should watch Kill Bill again
User avatar
IronMonkey
Royal Tramp
Posts: 1950
Joined: 08 Dec 2004, 16:49

Post by IronMonkey »

bradavon wrote:I wonder how they did that missing hand trick in the trailer. I cannot see it being CGI.
Are you meaning when the girl is running and screaming? She definitely has both hands. You can use the left & right keys in QuickTime to advance a frame at a time - she quite clearly has both hands, as you can see the fingers on both in 2 different frames...
TH-42PX80 | DMP-BD50 (MR BD & DVD) | SA-XR55 | SB-TP20 | XBox 360 Slim 250GB | XBox (XBMC, 160GB) | Zotac XBMC HTPC | Gaming PC | 8TB Media Server
User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 20193
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Post by Markgway »

bradavon wrote:Okay nearly as violent.
You what?? :lol:
Image
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

Yes I am IM. I saw that too, like you say. Some frames it looks like her hand is missing.
User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 11917
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Post by HungFist »

"MARTYRS - again, I agree with Grady. This is one sick puppy of a movie, but oh so good. I think I switched allegiances three times in the film, initially appreciating it, then growing sick of it, and then realizing I loved it toward the end. It’s going to play with your emotions, possibly make you sick - or angry, and might even upset you so much that you wind up hating it, but it’ll definitely provoke some kind of strong reaction in everybody who sees it, which is more than you can say for most films these days. It’s a slasher movie where the victim is your soul." —MW

- http://subwaycinemanews.com/archives/227

The referred review

"MARTYRS - French people are sick. That’s the only explanation I have for the rash of horror flicks coming out of the land of stinky cheese: INSIDE, FRONTIER(S) and now this. The less you know about it the better, because this movie switches gears like a hungover trucker on an uphill drive: frequently and with the scream of shredding metal and the smell of burning oil. Slated for the video store shelves courtesy of the Weinstein Company, this is the next step in horror movies - a film not content to scare you or gross you out, but wanting to make a philosophical point doing so. In the last third it’ll lose most of its audience (myself included) but then it comes back with a mind-blowing ending that sent one viewer at Midnight Madness out into the lobby, blowing chunks. Have you ever thought about god, power, life and death while heaving out your guts in the toilet bowl? After seeing MARTYRS, you will."

- http://subwaycinemanews.com/archives/215
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

Mark Kermode's thoughts (4 Mins):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/ ... 00309.html

If Mark thinks it's tough, my god it must be. Like some of you folk he's seen loads of the despicable cult horror films and likes many of them.
romerojpg
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8520
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 14:12
Location: CLOSE TO YOUR MAMMA

Post by romerojpg »

Kermode also thinks The Exorcist is shockingly hardcore to take.

Bullshit its like telletubbies, he is a girl.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

WOW! That was an original response to Kermode ;)

p.s - btw he doesn't.
User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4140
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 11:14

Re: Martyrs

Post by Shingster »

I finally got round to watching this last night, thought it was ok but tbh I really can't see what all the fuss is about, mind you I've always been extremely disassociated from film violence. I did watch it with a friend who is a casual cinema fan (ie: normal :D) and he was pretty much of the same opinion. I knew absolutely nothing about the film going in btw, did a good job of avoiding information. All I knew was that it was part of the French new wave of "torture porn" films and it's one of the strongest of that wave. My thoughts:

First half of the film is pretty good, Laugier uses the constant threat/promise of violence really effectively and the film has a wild, no-holds-barred, unrelenting energy to the violence that makes Lucie's psychotic episodes all the more tense. Second half of the film is less successful; the pacing is slowed to a crawl because Laugier attempts to intellectualise the violence and (more critically) he makes it methodical. The depiction of violence is considerably toned down as well, which risks audience disassociation because once you've sat through a pyscho carving herself up with a Stanley knife for half an hour you're not going to be too affected by seeing Grant Mitchell slap a woman around for 30 seconds at a time.

Crucially though, and it's here that I find my thoughts correlating with Mark: The attempt to intellectualise the violence is pretty damn flimsy at best. So there's a secret group of sadists looking for the answer to the afterlife by torturing women in a "spiritual epiphany"? Kinda simplistic psychology there isn't it? Even if you ignore the fact that putting a human being through intolerable pain can inevitably lead to shock induced euphoria, the film posits the likely possibility of a complete psychotic break as the end point of the "experiment", so you're constantly baffled as to why this cult are so assured by the importance and relevance of their work.

Perhaps this is the point, perhaps Laugier is trying to convey the inexorable and intangible nature of man's fear of its own morality through the extremity of these old folks' actions, but you feel like you’re grasping at straws through this thinking because he never fleshes out any of the antagonists at all. If we understood them, the attackers, THEN we can intellectualise the violence, but we never do.


I remembered a heated debate over this film between Mark and a few members a few weeks back in the general film ratinfs thread, so I'm going to go have a looksie and see if we can't stir the debate back up! :P
Post Reply