Ashes of Time: The final non-Redux comparison

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 May 2008, 20:25

I have already done a comparison for Wong Kar-Wai's Ashes of Time a long time ago, but only at a resolution of 640x360.

Top: TF1 Vidéo (88-minute international cut).
Bottom: Mei Ah (~98-minute theatrical HK cut).

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 19 May 2008, 20:36

Tom, the look of TF1's release is according to the filmmakers' intentions? Thanks.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 19 May 2008, 20:39

God, the Mei Ah looks like an old VHS!

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 May 2008, 20:45

@Eva:
Based on the WKW interview I've seen today, I'd say: yes.
The blueish tint is intentional.
Ashes of Time was never meant to look orange.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 May 2008, 21:10

Wow the French disc looks awful. I thought it was supposed to look good. It only looks acceptable because the HK DVD looks much worse. I can forgive the HK DVD as at least it's ancient and costs peanuts. The HK DVD is the one I used to own.

Any chance you can the American DVD Tom? I understand it's even worse and comes from a 4:3 version with the top/bottom chopped off as it has burnt in subs. It would be complete then, AFAIK. Thanks btw.

What's cut from the French cut?

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 May 2008, 21:27

@Brad:
Some scenes were shot on 8mm film IIRC.
They look crap because they were always meant to look like crap IMO.

I don't have the american disc, but from what I've heard they've taken the Mei Ah transfer, cropped the burnt-in subtitles and made them removable (adding many more spelling mistakes in the process).
The japanese disc is supposed to be the same as the US one (except no subs at all).

As for what's missing in the international cut:
-Most references to the buddhist scriptures are gone.
-The first big fight (Leslie Cheung vs Lau Shun) is gone.
-Brigitte Lin going nuts and practicing her swordplay in the lake.

And the ending is missing too.
( Leslie Cheung leaving his inn to join the martial arts world where he encounters Leung Kar-Fai and Brigitte Lin again )

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 May 2008, 22:01

I like that lake scene. I cannot remember the others. I cannot remember much of it, as the HK DVD is so bad.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 19 May 2008, 22:58

What is wrong with you philestines! Can't handle a grainy image! Go watch After Life now!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 May 2008, 23:09

Those DVDs are all wrong, before you even get to the grain. The HK DVD subs for one are just atrocious. Good luck trying to follow them.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 May 2008, 23:20

True.
There's never been a decent DVD of AOT.
The french DVD could have been great if those idiots had bothered to put the theatrical cut on it.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 19 May 2008, 23:26

Yup, the international cut sucks balls. I have no problem reading the subs on the Mei Ah DVD. Sure they're a pain in the arse, but i've seen it so many times they no longer bother me.

Knetan · Post by **Knetan** » 20 May 2008, 04:08

hey,

source material in Hong Kong cinema is what it is, which applies to subtitles also. Not seen the cinema print of AOT but are the subtitles in frame and otherwise visible at all times? If so, I would say AOT would be yet another HK film I wouldn't have a single problem with WATCHING, imbedded subs, grain or otherwise.

You just have to be in a different frame of mind if you're going to appreciate HK cinema for what it is. Yes, some movies are not going to make it past VHS, LD or VCD but even when reaching dvd's, there is a certain limitation to certain movies that just isn't going to be tweaked. It's a matter of logically settling and while I'm sure AOT will look a little bit better in the future, do you really think we're going to travel far, far away from the current look (including the grain which isn't intrusive one bit anyway for me)? I'm sure fans of the film would still feel its awesome power via the battered cinema print. Just don't buy large displays huh?

Btw, you think AOT got it bad? Think again:
http://www.sogoodreviews.com/reviews/th ... ooviet.htm

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 20 May 2008, 09:45

The AOT subs are always visible but not always completely in frame, they tend to drift down until they're halfway peeking out from the bottom at times.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 20 May 2008, 11:30

@Knetan:
There's a scene in AOT which is very difficult to follow in real time. I couldn't read the subs without pausing the film for several seconds throughout.

Knetan · Post by **Knetan** » 20 May 2008, 12:22

hey,

that look is of course not the most easy on the eyes, even though being used to imbedded subs via tons of vhs, vcd and laserdisc-viewing MAYBE helps overall when approaching HK cinema, obscure or otherwise.

For the record, my viewing of the film has been via fansubbed Japanese dvd.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 May 2008, 13:03

I've no problem with burnt in subs if they're clear. On the Ashes of Time HK DVD they most certainly are not.

Different frame of mind or not the DVD is awful. If you struggle to follow the film you struggle to follow it, simple.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 20 May 2008, 15:10

Knetan wrote:For the record, my viewing of the film has been via fansubbed Japanese dvd.

Is that the longer cut?

Knetan · Post by **Knetan** » 20 May 2008, 15:24

hey,

original yes. Widescreen but not matted over like World Video's dvd.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 20 May 2008, 15:29

Found a DVD-Rip (possibly from the japanese DVD).
I won't include it in the comparison for obvious reasons, but here are the caps for reference:

https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... OTRIP1.jpg
https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... OTRIP2.jpg
https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... OTRIP3.jpg
https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... OTRIP4.jpg
https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... OTRIP5.jpg

Theatrical HK cut.
No burnt-in subs.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 May 2008, 16:01

My god that's even worse. Isn't France the only country to use the International cut?

Knetan · Post by **Knetan** » 20 May 2008, 16:20

hey,

totally watchable dvd. Or rather totally watchable version of the film.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 20 May 2008, 16:36

bradavon wrote:My god that's even worse. Isn't France the only country to use the International cut?

You talking about DVD only? Film4 like to show the Int. Cut on UK TV every now and again, that's how I watched it back in the day.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 May 2008, 16:42

Thanks. I meant generally not just DVD. Was the UK VHS the international cut?

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 20 May 2008, 23:50

I don't know, can't find any record of it on the BBFC site.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 May 2008, 23:52

Thanks anyway.

I bet the FilmFour quality is better than the HK DVD, especially the subs.