What asian film/series have you just seen.. marks out of 5

[bradavon]

Empty! - Double post.

[bradavon]

That's the problem that Tom and I already tried to bring up. It doesn't matter if the movie glamorizes rape or not, if it displays violence realistically or not, if it shows the positives or the negatives of drug use. There's no connection to reality.

Overall I agree but some people are unable to separate the two.

One reason why I'm such a big fan of classic exploitation films is that they often offer so much material and "ideologies" to analyze.

No offence but I think you read too much into their intentions. I've not seen as much as you but I saw none of that in Sex and Fury. The sex/rape was just an excuse to be misogynistic to women.

That's what I took from the sex/rape in Sexy and Fury anyway. I just saw a poorly made B Movie which granted did have excellently choreographed action sequences. I have a feeling most exploitation films are made to the same quality level.

It's no different from more over the top examples like Arnold and Commando. The message of that film may be that violence and AK-47 are the answer.

For reasons I mentioned earlier, not exactly.

The action films Arnie stars in do not tend to linger on violence. Someone gets shot and the film moves on. Whereas rape in films usually lingers on the moment. It's this that makes it more intense, just like seeing what "actually happens" when someone is shot would make it more intense.

A good example would be Passion of the Christ, which would be otherwise a pretty bland film but the possible anti jew message and Gibson's own religious "passion" make it a more interesting experience.

There isn't much point to Passion of the Christ other than to show us Gibson's own point of view and an excuse for gratuitous violence.

But adult censorhip is something I don't believe in.

Agreed. Films at R, 18 should be left intact.

[HungFist]

It's interesting that you use Sex and Fury as an example of a misogynistic film, when the whole pinky violence genre is based on girl power. Sure, the genre was made for men, by men, and offer much eye candy for the male audience, but if you try to analyze it from the men/women point of view, the films are actually much more insulting towards men. Practically every male character in those films is a horny idiot / sadist that gets killed by the ladies before the movie is over. The girls on the other hand win every time. You could write a book of the different ways how Reiko Ike and Miki Sugimoto have killed the male characters in those films.

The rapes and torture in these films is just a basic exploitation film plot element. In the beginning the female protagonist gets raped or tortured, and that gives her a reason to go Charles Bronson on the bad guys. It's just a variation of the typical revenge movie plot, no differrent from the "evil white bearded granny killed my master and now I must avege" plot that you see in every other martial arts film. In most cases neither is supposed to be taken so seriously. It's only a movie, it's only a movie, it's only a movie...

Less than surprisingly, the pinky violence genre has found a lot of female fans. When Panik House started releasing pink in the US, it was even estimated that these films would become cult favourites among feminist audiences as soon as they find them.

It's no different from more over the top examples like Arnold and Commando. The message of that film may be that violence and AK-47 are the answer.

For reasons I mentioned earlier, not exactly.

I believe I wrote

The message of that film may be that violence and AK-47 are the answer. Still, I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to take it seriously.

The action films Arnie stars in do not tend to linger on violence. Someone gets shot and the film moves on. Whereas rape in films usually lingers on the moment. It's this that makes it more intense, just like seeing what "actually happens" when someone is shot would make it more intense.

So, if you rape really fast, it's okay?

[bradavon]

It's interesting that you use Sex and Fury as an example of a misogynistic film, when the whole pinky violence genre is based on girl power.

And I'd agreed on the whole Sex and Fury achieves that but the misogynistic elements certainly dont' empower women. Regardless it's a very "male orientated" point of view on female empowerment.

None of what I'm saying is designed to belittle Sex and Fury. I'm just saying it how I see it.

the films are actually much more insulting towards men. Practically every male character in those films is a horny idiot / sadist that gets killed by the ladies before the movie is over. The girls on the other hand win every time.

I'd say it's about equal in Sex and Fury. Men also love to see tough women winning. I doubt they did it out of empowerment to female kind.

and that gives her a reason to go Charles Bronson on the bad guys.

Correct me if I'm wrong but most (Hollywood anyway) revenge films don't linger on the violence.

Besides why keep choosing rape as a revenge element? Simply because many Japanese men are misogynistic, it's in their culture. Rape adds to the power some men like to have over women.

It's only a movie, it's only a movie, it's only a movie...

Except for Romero you're speaking to the converted .

I do think there is a difference between seeing a defenceless person being attacked (rape) and a tough man being attacked (revenge).

Less than surprisingly, the pinky violence genre has found a lot of female fans.

Are they all Japanese or Western female fans to?

So, if you rape really fast, it's okay?

Except when rape is filmed it never is. A fast rape on the same scale as "most film shootings" would have to be seen on screen less than a second. When rape is filmed that just never happens.

[HungFist]

The following is not a direct response to anything, just some interesting points.

The rape thing goes both ways, at least in Nikkatsu films. In the beginning of Final Bliss! Painful Twist (one of my favourite roman porno films), ULTRA HEAVY SPOILERS AHEAD, the drunken main character (a young business man) is seduced by Naomi Tani, who takes him to her place. Her yakuza boyfriend happens to be home and wants to play with the business man (odds or even). If he (the business man) wins, he gets to sleep with Tani. If he loses, he gets raped. He accepts, assuming that the "rape" means Tani is gonna do whatever she wants with him. Well, he loses, and it turns out that it's of course the yakuza who wants to rape him. So he does.

Later he meets the yakuza again (he tried to buy sex from a school girl, without knowing the girl was working for the yakuza) and he gets raped again. After that he falls in love with the yakuza. He even gets a sex change, because he wants to become his wife. They get married, but then the yakuza gets in trouble with the police and has to flee. He runs with his girlfriend (Tani) and dumps the business man. He says "I like you but you draw too much attention. Sorry.". Then the movie ends.

Now, anyone that found Sex & Fury misogynistic should find this film extremely insulting towards the male sex. The main character gets raped repeatedly, and in the end he begins to enjoy it and submits to it. He even falls in love with the rapist and changes his sex. At the end he doesn't get his revenge, he only gets fucked over one more time.

Here the victim is not a woman, but a man. And suddendly no one finds it insulting. Or? Myself I can only talk for myself. I loved the film and thought it was hilarious.

Admittedly, there is another key difference, too. In Sex & Fury the women are raped by men, while in Final Twist the baddie is still a man (instead of being a woman, which would be the polar opposite). So, is the ’misogynistic’ stamp given by what happens to the victim, or by which sex the offender represents? If you say a film is misogynistic only because the bad guy happens to be a male, that's pretty sexist thinking, isn’t it?

Are they all Japanese or Western female fans to?

I believe they were referring to feelback from american audiences

Except for Romero you're speaking to the converted

Never mind, it was just a clumsy attempt at being clever

[bradavon]

I've not seen "The Last House on the Left" and have no plans to see it. As to Sex and Fury: I don't recall any men being raped.

[romerojpg]

The Last House on the Left is in my top worst films of all time, its just trash from beginning to end in every single way you can imagine.

I dont mind rape in films at all, depends on what film it is mainly. It mostly is there for disturbing people and getting revenge, or inspiring hate towards people (and it works a lot of the time).

Its outlawed in many countries as any form of titalation in films etc.. for a good reason. Sadly many asian countries seem to thrive off the titilation aspect of it and pander to the ones who lap it up in film, tv, anime and manga form. Much like child abuse/sex, school girls etc.. Want to watch schoolgirl children getting raped, well go to Asia and seek it out and your in for a good time.

[bradavon]

What countries is rape in film outlawed? It maybe censored and frowned upon but banned!

Want to watch schoolgirl children getting raped, well go to Asia and seek it out and your in for a good time.

Please, you've never even been to Asia. Stop making gross generalisations on an entire continent you've not been to. It just makes you look ignorant.

At least members like Hung and myself have been to many of the countries we're talking about. I'd agree it's used in some Japanese films but to say it's endemic across Asia (which covers India, Pakistan, the Middle East etc... too) just isn't so.

I'd imagine if you went to Russia and parts of Eastern Europe you could find it too, it hardly just happens in Asia.

[romerojpg]

What countries is rape in film outlawed? It maybe censored and frowned upon but banned!

Read what I said slowly next time, I said rape for titilation is illegal.




and as for going to asia, get lost your talking bollcks now I guess I am just sooo wrong about that

Obviously you see nothing and walk around blind. Manga and anime are full of it you fool, and many films and TV shows are and I know for a fact I have seen more of all of them than you ever will, I have seen them and I can comment on them.

[bradavon]

Read what I said slowly next time, I said rape for titilation is illegal.

I did, you said:

"Its outlawed in many countries as any form of titalation in films etc.."

My question still stands. Where is it outlawed in film?

and as for going to asia, get lost your talking bollcks now I guess I am just sooo wrong about that

You were saying all of Asia when the examples you now cite are only made in some Asian countries. You've still not been to any Asian country so have no idea what the culture is like. Comics, TV and Movies only tell you so much.

[romerojpg]

Read what I said slowly next time, I said rape for titilation is illegal.

I did, you said:

"Its outlawed in many countries as any form of titalation in films etc.."

My question still stands. Where is it outlawed in film?

Read the BBFC site for one instance.


and as for your comments on Asia, your an expert becuase you have been there. Great keep up the good work

[bradavon]

Outlawed means illegal. The BBFC don't have the power to create laws.

[Markgway]

That's the problem that Tom and I already tried to bring up. It doesn't matter if the movie glamorizes rape or not, if it displays violence realistically or not, if it shows the positives or the negatives of drug use.

I happen to think it does which would therefore rule out (for me) a movie like RAPEMAN.

One reason why I'm such a big fan of classic exploitation films is that they often offer so much material and "ideologies" to analyze. Does the content reflect the film maker's real opinions/ideologies? Did the time period affect on the film's view/description of the world? Is the director perhaps mentally insane? Analyzing this is half of the fun in these films. Nevertheless, every viewer should have enough brains to understand that you can't adapt these ideologies into your real life thinking.

Not sure my idea of entertainment is examining the sick ideologies of someone who might be insane? But to each his own. I'm not saying you shouldn't watch it... just explaining why I wouldn't.

It's no different from more over the top examples like Arnold and Commando.

Well, it is, really. I mean, does anyone here think COMMANDO could actually happen? That a beefy Austrian could wipe out an entire South American Army consisting of hundreds of trained soldiers armed to the teeth? Rape on the other hand happens all the time and requires nothing more than the desire.

Practically every male character in those films is a horny idiot / sadist that gets killed by the ladies before the movie is over. The girls on the other hand win every time.

So RAPEMAN (rapist as hero - which I still find impossible to believe) isn't a prime example of this genre? I don't have a problem with rape or violence in films as long as there's a moral justification (even a slim one).

[HungFist]

It's no different from more over the top examples like Arnold and Commando.

Well, it is, really. I mean, does anyone here think COMMANDO could actually happen? That a beefy Austrian could wipe out an entire South American Army consisting of hundreds of trained soldiers armed to the teeth? Rape on the other hand happens all the time and requires nothing more than the desire.

I don't mean this by any offence, but I do think that kind of thinking is the first stage of the problem, the simple fact that you don't find rape in movies a million light years away from reality. To me, there's no difference between Rapeman, Last House on the Left and Donald Duck. They are all equally pure fantasy. All movies are. Even those that deal with real life subjects. As I said before, I think movies never offer solutions or answers. If you think otherwise it could be very dangerous.

Movies may however ask questions and make references to real life (sometimes the whole movie could be all about referencing to the real world). But you really have to be sceptic enough to never assume the movie is telling you the truth. The greateness of these movies is that they stimulate your thinking. But in the end, what you saw in a movie should never have an effect on what is your final conclusion.

When dealing with exploitation films this is pretty much the only possible approach. Otherwise you'll find yourself behind the bars, and surrounded by guys in white jackets.

So RAPEMAN (rapist as hero - which I still find impossible to believe) isn't a prime example of this genre?

Rapeman was made in 1993. Pinky violence died in the late 70's. Nikkatsu's genre cinema came to its end in 1988. Rapeman has nothing to do with these genres. The discussion went back in time a few decades when Brad mentioned Sex & Fury (1973).

[romerojpg]

The greateness of these movies is that they stimulate your thinking.

Well they also stimulate some pervs, and get us talking up a bit of debate

[Markgway]

Rapeman was made in 1993. Pinky violence died in the late 70's. Nikkatsu's genre cinema came to its end in 1988. Rapeman has nothing to do with these genres. The discussion went back in time a few decades when Brad mentioned Sex & Fury (1973).

OK. As you can see I know bugger all about them. But from what you say I don't think I'd have a problem with the "pinky" movies if the women get their just revenge.

To me, there's no difference between Rapeman, Last House on the Left and Donald Duck.

Obviously I think that's nonsense, but it's your opinion, and I guess we'll leave it at that...

[bradavon]

To me, there's no difference between Rapeman, Last House on the Left and Donald Duck. They are all equally pure fantasy.

While they're all films so yes fantasies that's still stretching it just a bit, putting it lightly.

I do think you're on to a loser with exploitation on this forum. Your exploitation threads seem to only ever have to members posting on them. I gave it a shot and it wasn't for me.

You gave Sex and Fury as an example of one of the best but to me it "mostly" a poorly made/acted B Movie. It felt very cheap.

[saltysam]

I do think you're on to a loser with exploitation on this forum. Your exploitation threads seem to only ever have to members posting on them.

nowt wrong with hung's exploitation thread.i read it though don't post much there.look at your combo thread these days,it's virtually just you posting and me jibing

[bradavon]

I wasn't trying to imply there's anything wrong with it, just that most people (like my Combo thread) aren't interested.

[Lourdes]

Going by views per post the exploitation topic is nearly three times more popular than this one.

[HungFist]

It's not the amount of views or posts I care. I know I've got loads of reviews and caps of dvds there that are not reviewed in english anywhere else. When it comes to R2J releases you often couldn't find the reviews/caps even if you searched in japanese. I'm pretty proud of the first page contents list

[bradavon]

I would be too. You've done some great work there. Can I suggest you periodically copy/paste the code/text into a document, just in case.

[grim_tales]

The Assembly looks good

[HungFist]

Woman of the Afternoon: Incite! (Japan, 1979) – 3/5
Boringly titled ”Woman of the Afternoon: Incite!” sounds like another dull soft core pic from Nikkatsu. But director Nobuyaki Saito surprises, more than once. The romantic road movie works nicely on audio-visual level and feels mostly fresh. Later the film makes an interesting turn into survival thriller when the main character arrives a small town inhabited by nothing but brutal savages and rapists.

Very spoiler heavy trailer for you to enjoy:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PiD9_iFkB7Q&fmt=18

[grim_tales]

Has anyone seen Assembly yet?