The Official "Dragon Dynasty" Thread!

China, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, Thailand, etc
User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4140
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 10:14

Post by Shingster »

Ivan Drago wrote:Looking forward to this. Judging from the theatrical film, this should change my current perception of Lau Kar-leung as a one-trick pony
WTF! Did you just say that? :o :D
Lau Kar-leung is arguably (well not arguably imo he IS) the most influential action director of all time.
Killer Meteor
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2380
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Post by Killer Meteor »

Influential maybe, but I often feel he strived too much for authenticity over dramatic value, which is fine if your actors can do the fu (Gordon Liu, Yasuaki Kurata etc) but not when you're stuck with Wong Yue (the annoying guy off Spiritual Boxer) or Chi Kuan Chun, who knew how to fight but not on camera. I don't deny Lau's a force to be reckoned with as a bona fide martial artist and as a performer, but frankly, when it comes to choreography, I prefer Tang Chia

I say this, however, having seen few of Lau's DIRECTED film (as opposed to ones where he did the choreography) so I'm hoping promised DVDs like DD's Heroes Of The East and Media Blaster's Martial Club can introduce me to a better side to the man
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.
User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4140
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 10:14

Post by Shingster »

I love Heroes of the East, one of his best. I would also recommend My Young Auntie, 8 Diagram Pole Fighter, and Legendary Weapons of China if you haven't already seen them.

Tang Chia's was a fantastic action director as well of course, there's a wildness and level of fun to his fight sequences that I agree you just don't get with LKL. I feel he is the most criminally ignored AD of the great old school masters.
Killer Meteor
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2380
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Post by Killer Meteor »

Seen My Young Auntie - quite a fun film

8 Diagram is one I'm holding out for the DD. It DOES look very powerful

Legendary Weapons -tricky one, since all the various DVDs aren't worth it. Hope to see it via trade at some point
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.
Yi-Long
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8616
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 12:46
Location: Alkmaar, Holland

Post by Yi-Long »

8 Diagram is pretty cool, apart from Fu Sheng, who's crap as always.
Image
I was there, the big BNB blackout of november, 2008. We lost many that day...
chenlung
King of Beggars
Posts: 901
Joined: 27 Feb 2005, 22:45
Location: Scotland

Post by chenlung »

I agree with Ivan. Lau liked being genuine, but it didn't always suit on-screen. Wong Yue couldn't handle action brilliantly - he was merely a comical actor and if cast in a MA role, took a few hits up-close and left the rest to a stuntman.

I like Tang Chia as well.

Yuen Woo Ping could make things entertaining, but he wasn't always accurate (I think).

You can't win ;).
Scott
chenlung
King of Beggars
Posts: 901
Joined: 27 Feb 2005, 22:45
Location: Scotland

Post by chenlung »

Screenplay on '8 Diagram' wasn't handled too well and I didn't like it, but it probably would have otherwise been fine.

Haven't seen 'Legendary' either for the same DVD reasons, but 'My Young Auntie' is full of comical mishaps (some done badly and too long) - action IS galas towards the end! I doubt I'd get it again thanks to Mandarin and unfixed subtitles on the DD DVD (I owned the IVL DVD previously, but sold it in waiting).
Scott
Yi-Long
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8616
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 12:46
Location: Alkmaar, Holland

Post by Yi-Long »

Well... the screenplay was ofcourse fucked up when Fu Sheng died in a carcrash, so they had to change things, while LKL still wanted him in the movie.
I didnt like the first 20-30 minutes of the movie, and I definately dont like Fu Sheng, who I think i very mediocre in both acting as well as martial arts, but after 20-30 minutes the movie picked up, and the action was pretty damn good afterwards.
Image
I was there, the big BNB blackout of november, 2008. We lost many that day...
Killer Meteor
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2380
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Post by Killer Meteor »

I quite like Fu Sheng in general but I don't like his portrayal of Fong Sai-yuk very much at all. And I can't help but be jelous of a man who gets close to Jenny Tseng
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.
Yi-Long
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8616
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 12:46
Location: Alkmaar, Holland

Post by Yi-Long »

Ivan Drago wrote:I quite like Fu Sheng in general but I don't like his portrayal of Fong Sai-yuk very much at all. And I can't help but be jelous of a man who gets close to Jenny Tseng
I havent seen much of him, Shaolin Temple and 8th Diagram, which are both considered to be not very good indications of his talent, so I'm sure my opinion of him isnt based on his best work and probably to biased.

But yeah, he's horrible as Fong Sai Yuk. Absolutely horrible.
I think the guy from Burning Paradise was the best FSY.
Image
I was there, the big BNB blackout of november, 2008. We lost many that day...
Killer Meteor
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2380
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Post by Killer Meteor »

my problem with his Fong Sai-yuk isn't the acting so much as the script. The character is shown as a smug punk, with a most embarassing weak spot. Much prefer, belive it or not, Meng Fei in the role in Prodigal Boxer

Not seen Shaolin Temple either! Hope DD releases that one soon - it's got Ti Lung, David Chiang and the Venoms!!!
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.
Yi-Long
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8616
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 12:46
Location: Alkmaar, Holland

Post by Yi-Long »

Yeah, I agree it's the script. He comes into The Shaolin Temple as a complete moron, who hardly knows kung fu, while the 'real' FSY was said to have been a kung fu prodigy, raised and taught by his mom etc.

But even then, in a bad screenplay, he just isnt likeable or impressive AT ALL in the role. He has a poorly written role, but he still should have done better with it.
Image
I was there, the big BNB blackout of november, 2008. We lost many that day...
Killer Meteor
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2380
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Post by Killer Meteor »

Funny, he IS taught by his mum in the same year's Shaolin Avengers! It's funny how the films really don't have any continuity with each other, despite being made by the same people in the space of a few years
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.
User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4140
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 10:14

Post by Shingster »

chenlung wrote:You can't win ;).
For me, all those directors win! :D Lau Kar Leung and Sammo to me are pretty much "flawless" action directors when they're on form. Yes LKL's fight sequences are quite grounded, and I completely agree about the limitations of some of his main stars, but if anything it's a testament to hs skills as a director that he could make fairly "strong" (read: not special) screen fighters out of the likes of Wang Yue and Fu Sheng, although he couldn't make strong actors out of them! :D

But I couldn't disagree more that LKL's style didn't always suit cinematic form, some of his fights are incredibly cinematic - particularly in Heroes of the East - his use of composition, space, perspective, and camera movement to emphasise speed and power was second to none (just watch how he uses the depth of frame and constantly moves the camera about in the sai/dagger fight in Heroes of the East, or how beautifully shot the duel between Kurata and Lau Kar-fel in the field of scarecrows. For clever use of space there's the ever-tightening alleyway fight in Martial Club), and the subtle complexity of his choreography was matched by the fluidity of the editing. LKL new exactly how to create a smooth, fluid action sequence and did so to excellent effect in most his films. Also, the man was a weapons god, 8 Diagram Pole Fighter has some of the most intense pole fights in screen history, and I don't think it is too much of an exaggeration to claim that 8 Diagram, along with Heroes of the East and Legendary Weapons of China, form the greatest "weapons" trilogy of all time. Of course, just about any film where he personally faught on screen with a weapon is worth watching just for that alone. Incidentally, I've always felt that his brief cameo as a drunken boxer in Heroes of the East was the finest representation of that style ever committed to celluloid.

Sammo's style is pretty similar, he was obviously heavily influenced by LKL. He too knew how to move the camera and use the full 2.35:1 frame, and his editing was as good as LKL's, but the big difference was that he emphasised power over technique, and he worked with a very talented crew of screen fighters. I've always felt Sammo was the greatest screen puncher in screen history, but I don't think anyone has ever directed harder hitting fight sequences than Sammo, before or since.

Yuen Wo Ping was more about the inventiveness and making his fights as unconventional as possible. His sense of rythmn was as good as anyone's, and of course he's also as good with wire work as anyone.

Writing all that has made me tempted to put in a review copy request for the DD release of Heroes of the East now! :D
User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 20195
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Post by Markgway »

My top three Liu Chia Liang films:

1. Eight-Diagram Pole Fighter
2. Heroes of the East
3. My Young Auntie
Image
User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4140
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 10:14

Post by Shingster »

I hate doing favourite lists, but if I was pushed mine would be something like:

1. Heroes of the East
2. 8 Diagram Pole Fighter
3. Legendary Weapons of China (with My Young Aunty a VERY close 4th)
User avatar
Ricochan38
Flirting Scholar
Posts: 461
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 09:43
Location: L'dam - The Netherlands

Post by Ricochan38 »

Shingster wrote:
Ivan Drago wrote:Looking forward to this. Judging from the theatrical film, this should change my current perception of Lau Kar-leung as a one-trick pony
WTF! Did you just say that? :o :D
Lau Kar-leung is arguably (well not arguably imo he IS) the most influential action director of all time.

I wouldnt go that far
(IMHO)
User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4140
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 10:14

Post by Shingster »

He pretty much created the 70's wave of comedy fu and "horror" fu with his official directorial debut: Spiritual Boxer, and he was choreographing fluid action sequences with Tang Chia long before Bruce Lee ever came about. His work with Chang Cheh was monumentally influential - particularly on the likes of Sammo Hung and Yuen Woo Ping.

Just out of interest, is there any one action director you'd prefer for title of most influential?
User avatar
Ricochan38
Flirting Scholar
Posts: 461
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 09:43
Location: L'dam - The Netherlands

Post by Ricochan38 »

chang cheh would be my choice if i have to choose.
User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4140
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 10:14

Post by Shingster »

Cheh is a good choice, as a general action director i'd agree he was more influential (i've been thinking more about martial arts), but I also think that the action in his films wouldn't have been quite so special without the likes of Lau Kar-leung and Tang Chia working on them.
Killer Meteor
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2380
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Post by Killer Meteor »

Sammo for me.

Funny how non-influential Bruce Lee was on HK cinema.

I think special kudos for unsung choreography should go to Lu Feng. Force to be reckoned with!
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.
User avatar
thelostdragon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 7059
Joined: 29 Oct 2004, 22:36
Location: Basin City

Post by thelostdragon »

Uhm... Yuen Woo-ping and Jackie Chan. Both have been very influential for international film.
Image
User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 22166
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 17:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Post by grim_tales »

I agree LD :)
Ivan what do you mean Bruce Lee was non influential? What about all the Bruce clones and surely some HK actors were inspired due to Bruce, surely he was a very iconic and important figure :)
User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4140
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 10:14

Post by Shingster »

Ivan Drago wrote:Funny how non-influential Bruce Lee was on HK cinema.
Yes, and with LD mentioning Jackie Chan I have to say I don't think he has been immensely influential purely as an action director either (just in HK cinema of course). Not as much as he should have been, anyway.
User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4140
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 10:14

Post by Shingster »

grim_tales wrote:I agree LD :)
Ivan what do you mean Bruce Lee was non influential? What about all the Bruce clones and surely some HK actors were inspired due to Bruce, surely he was a very iconic and important figure :)
He means as an action director. Bruce's action sequences were pretty unique, but during his career and after his death most of HK's action directors just continued with their own, more traditional style - certainly the big name directors did! Sammo was probably the most influenced by Lee as a director imo.