Let's Discuss HD Combo Players!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 21 Feb 2008, 02:50

LG to Continue HD DVD Support:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/ ... pport/1484

Source: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=49

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 21 Feb 2008, 08:32

bradavon wrote:LG to Continue HD DVD Support:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/ ... pport/1484

Source: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=49

Thanks. I still plan to pick up a LG combo ROM drive. Hopefully there's one that supports Profile 2.0, but I could easily live without it.

LOL PiP, I've stopped really caring much about extras TBH, I rarely ever watch them now (I used to spend days going through extras alone - eg sitting down and watch all that the Alien Quadrilogy had to offer or reading the tome of text-based extras on the T2 Ultimate Edition.)

I already have some vital parts to build a HTPC (eg the Auzen X-fi Prelude audiophile HTPC/gaming card, which will have support for the HD codecs + HDMI v1.3 via the daughter board.) I plan to upgrade my RAM, motherboard and CPU (to a Wolfdale quad core) this year, so there'll be more parts.

Whether I'm willing to sacrifice my sound card from my gaming PC is another matter though, it kicks so much arse with games and music (I listen music exclusively whilst using the PC). Could always buy a 2nd sound card if I need one (at $300nzd they're not cheap though.).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 21 Feb 2008, 17:29

I'd imagine Profile 2.0 on Computer Drives will be added much sooner than on Home Players. The necessary hardware is already possible with the PC around it.

Me too I barely ever watch extras, but I just know there would be a killer PIP Commentary I'd want to watch and cannot if I go Profile 1.0. Also considering what I buy is likely to cost £500 I want it to last.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 21 Feb 2008, 18:39

BD profiles are upgraded via software on HTPCs. The drive just reads the data, it is up to the software to interpret it.

This is the same as on a standalone player - the drive just reads the data & the player's firmware does the rest.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 21 Feb 2008, 18:42

Presuming the hardware in place first

(for a standalone).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Feb 2008, 21:15

I had my fears that the Samsung BD-UP5000 was only able to output TrueHD in 2 Channel instead of offering the ability to also output the DD5.1 Core.

Sadly this is true. Historically it's not been a problem as a DD5.1/DD Plus soundtrack was always included too but many Sony BDs now only have TrueHD in English meaning the Player must either handle TrueHD properly or be able extract the DD5.1 Core to be able to playback the movie in 5.1.

As the Samsung BD-UP5000 happens to support TrueHD properly but can only output it in 2 Channel it ignore the DD5.1 Core all together. Way to go Samsung!

In short: for any BD or HD-DVD that has TrueHD only, you'll only be getting 2 Channel audio. The same applies to PCM too but that's always accompanied by a DD5.1 soundtrack too. Because unlike TrueHD there is no DD5.1 Core in PCM. This is in contrast to DTS-HD which also has a DTS Core and the Samsung Combo Players does detect it.

The problem is exaggerated by the fact that TrueHD 5.1 isn't even possible from the HDMI or Analogue Outputs either, let alone SPDIF.

I don't necessarily expect Lossless 5.1 but not being able to get 5.1 period and having to make do with Stereo (i.e - 2 Channel) is a serious reason to avoid the Samsung BD-UP5000 until new firmware is issued, in hopefully May.

There is a further explanation here:

We're sure -- it's always worked this way. A lot of people have been confused about this due to the fact that receivers/processors can use DSP algorithms to "artificially" expand the 2-channel signal to fill all channels. They mistakenly think they're getting a multi-channel mix because they're hearing audio from all speakers. In fact, the output of the 5000 is only providing two channels.

The assumption is that once the 5000 gets it's "audio" firmware update, the player will do one of two things to solve this issue. It will either 1) decode the TrueHD track to it's full, multi-channel mix and then re-encode it for the spdif outputs, or 2) let the player access the "hidden" DD track, which is designed to be used for this very reason.

Source: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=998630

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Feb 2008, 22:44

In contrast it appears the LG BH200 does offer Lossy 5.1 from TrueHD:

While the BH200 sports the Dolby TrueHD logo on the outside of the player, it's only capable of decoding Dolby TrueHD soundtracks to two-channel PCM. You do have the option to re-encode it to DTS to get multichannel, but Dolby TrueHD is essentially a standard feature on high-definition players now--there's no excuse for not having multichannel decoding.

On the DTS side, the BH200 sports the logo for DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out, which means that the player should be capable of outputting high-resolution DTS soundtracks like DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High Resolution in bit-stream format. Unfortunately, when we connected the BH200 to our Denon AVR-3808CI via HDMI and set in "Primary Pass-through" mode, we only got standard DTS. The bottom line is that this definitely isn't the player for audiophiles, and home theater enthusiasts should study page 36 of the manual before making a purchase.

Manual: http://us.lge.com/filedown.do?filepath= ... OM_Eng.pdf
Source: http://review.zdnet.com/video-players-a ... 95250.html

This is not ideal though as checking out the manual when you output audio as "DTS Recode" it converts everything (including Dolby Digtial and Dolby Digital Plus) into DTS.

In short to get Lossy 5.1 Audio (only Lossless PCM is supported, from HDMI):

SPDIF - Coaxial/Optical:

* DTS Recode for TrueHD and PCM
* Primary Pass-Thru for Dolby Digtial or Dolby Digital Plus
* DTS, DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA it doesn't matter as DTS Recode or Primary Pass-Thru will both give you DTS

You'll need to switch back and fourth depending what Disc you're using. That is unless it doesn't bother you Dolby Digtial or Dolby Digital Plus being recoded into DTS.

HDMI:

* DTS Recode for TrueHD
* Primary Pass-Thru for Dolby Digtial, Dolby Digital Plus or Lossless PCM 5.1
* DTS, DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA it doesn't matter as DTS Recode or Primary Pass-Thru will both give you DTS

You'll need to switch back and fourth depending what Disc you're using.

p.s - The LG BH200 also seems to have less disc playback problems too.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 29 Feb 2008, 16:47

Samsung confirms the BD-UP5000 isn't coming to Germany, there's a possibility the 5500 will still. That's still coming apparently:

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2008/200802/ ... 1500.shtml

That same link also confirms a new Profile 1.1 BD Player (the BD-P1500). I'm surprised Samsung haven't moved on to Profile 2.0 by now.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 29 Feb 2008, 16:54

Just get a player now and live with the incompatibilities, the future of this product line is very uncertain after all. Gamble with time for too long and you may lose.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Mar 2008, 21:43

-

Timbo21 wrote:Where I work I heard that the 5500 is being abandoned. I work in AV retail. Info was received via an email from Samsung.

Source: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthre ... 3&page=125

I am not at all surprised. Nothing is confirmed if Samsung are still planning to release firmware for the 5000 that will add Profile 1.1, DTS-HD and TrueHD 5.1.

As the idea always was to give the 5000 these features by the way of the 5500 I doubt they'll happen now. I envision a few more minor firmware upgrades but nothing major like DTS-HD and Profile 1.1.

If not they really have let their customers down by not delivering on their promise. The Samsung BD-UP5000 in it's current state is definitely to be avoided, especially considering it's cost.

I really hope LG have some update on the LG BH200 (they are apparently still working on it) or a newer model by May. This is when the Panasonic BD50 is supposed to be coming to America (Region A and Profile 2.0!) and when I was finally going to get something.

How long can LG expect users to use the BH200 in it's current state? At least they're still supporting Combos. I bet I'll pick up a Panasonic only to find a month later LG schedule a new Combo.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Mar 2008, 20:51

And less than 24 hours lately the LG BH200 is really looking promising

-

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost ... tcount=584

If it comes the LG BH200 should finally be:

1. TrueHD 5.1 compatible
2. DTS-HD MA/HR compatible
3. Profile 1.1 compatible
4. Properly support 24fps
5. No doubt it will fix more general disc playpack problems too.

Also LG are clearly still actively supporting the BH200 unlike Samsung.

It's still a pity LG didn't add analogue outputs but I guess it's a sign of the time and we'll all just have to upgrade our amps to hear Lossless Audio. If I can get the above but have to buy a new Amp to do it I will ultimately do so, but later in the year.

Source: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... 99&page=20

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Mar 2008, 07:03

Further confirmation to what we already knew from the news posted earlier this last week. From an American site this time:

Samsung has announced that they have canceled plans to introduce their second generation hybrid Blu-ray and HD DVD player, the Samsung BD-UP5500, due to Blu-ray winning the format war. Their first hybrid player, the Samsung BD-UP5000, was riddled with compatibility issues, and the time line to replace the player was escalated. With the successor now canceled, it appears Samsung will slowly leave the dual format player market.

Source: http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1089

What I would really like to know is if Samsung still plan to add Profile 1.1, DTS-HD and TrueHD 5.1 to their BD-UP5000!

Until we know more, my money is definitely on LG delivering with their BH200, especially given the news above.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 06 Mar 2008, 11:59

Surely Salty will be cackling at you now.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 06 Mar 2008, 14:18

EvaUnit02 wrote:Surely Salty will be cackling at you now.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 06 Mar 2008, 15:01

i hate to say i told you so but.....

it was a leap of faith for Brad to think Samsung would bring out a reliable combo player. if they couldn't produce a reliable standalone BD player what made you think they could produce a reliable combo! they've thrown in the towel and i think rightly,why should consumers be their guinea pigs testing shitty unfinished and expensive product. maybe the LG will come good and be Brad's saviour but i wouldn't hold my breath.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 06 Mar 2008, 15:56

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Mar 2008, 19:04

EvaUnit02 wrote:Surely Salty will be cackling at you now.

saltysam wrote:i hate to say i told you so but.....

You can try but you'd be wrong to do so

You never said anything against the 5500, it was the 5000 you get blabbering on about and that's been released

. The last we heard was firmware is coming in May to fix that. Personally I doubt it will still come now.

Now you act like I was only ever interested in a Samsung player. I edged my bets on it but seeing as LG are still supporting Combos it's just a wee bit early to say "I told you so just yet"

. Did you read the recent news from them above?

That firmware looks awesome and last time I checked your beloved PS3 still cannot playback DTS-HD

You will recall I said after Samsung let us/me down in January I'd wait to May. It's not May yet

saltysam wrote:maybe the LG will come good and be Brad's saviour but i wouldn't hold my breath.

If you read reports you'd find the LG BH200 already has considerably less problems to the Samsung BD-UP5000

. Considering the decoding chip is the same I can only assume this is down to better or more to the point more frequent firmware.

I still don't get what's so laughable about wanting to support both HD-DVD and BD in the same Player, please tell me what is because I am at a loss?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 06 Mar 2008, 19:11

Combo = shit. The end.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Mar 2008, 19:40

That sounds like a tag line from some dodgy Hollywood movie

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 06 Mar 2008, 19:55

bradavon wrote:
saltysam wrote:i hate to say i told you so but.....
You can try but you'd be wrong to do so

no i'm right Brad sorry.

bradavon wrote: You never said anything against the 5500, it was the 5000 you get blabbering on about and that's been released

i said i had grave doubts about samsung producing a reliable combo.i was 100% right.

bradavon wrote:Now you act like I was only ever interested in a Samsung player.

that'll be the samsung you said you were going to be "all over " on release

bradavon wrote:That firmware looks awesome and last time I checked your beloved PS3 still cannot playback DTS-HD

beloved ps3? nah,it's a machine that plays discs.big deal.unlike you i don't stay up till 6 every morning creaming myself over pictures of combos with DTS-HD.i hope you clean up afterwards,dirty boy.

bradavon wrote:I still don't get what's so laughable about wanting to support both HD-DVD and BD in the same Player, please tell me what is because I am at a loss?

because your endless combo waffle is so fucking hilarious to me and others on this board someone has even started a poll on it! 19 pages and counting......

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Mar 2008, 23:32

I always clean up after myself

Seriously if you're not interested why do you even look in this thread? No one is forcing you. I don't look in the Sports forum as Sport doesn't interest me. I'm interested in getting a Combo player, what is so wrong with that? Let me live in my bubble, it's not hurting anyone.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 07 Mar 2008, 00:20

bradavon wrote:
Seriously if you're not interested why do you even look in this thread? No one is forcing you.

because this thread is legendary,it would belong in b&b gold if it still existed.put yourself in my shoes,it's funny reading about your trials and tribulations of getting a combo.i also like it when you lose your cool and mention "hd-dvd is dead", "beloved ps3" "i'm all over it" ,"DTS-HD" " i'll trump you all". i know small things amuse me

but seriously i hope your last chance saloon LG combo works out,i really do.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Mar 2008, 01:09

Fair enough then, from your point of view

I do still think all this waiting will mean it pays off for me. Even if I end up getting a Panasonic BD Profile 2.0 Player the wait will still have paid off. I hope it works out too

8)

I started this thread January 2007

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 07 Mar 2008, 01:15

A broken Brad pictured on the streets of Bath just 2 days after learning the LG Combo had trouble playing the BD of Blade Runner-Final Cut

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Mar 2008, 01:24

Please don't tempt fait

.