Eastern Condors: R1Fox vs R2HKL vs R2FR

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 29 Feb 2008, 11:46

chenlung wrote:
EvaUnit02 wrote:
chenlung wrote:Sammo likes to insert animal cruelty wherever possible.
Seriously?
Was making a sarcastic statement, but he's done it a few times, pointlessly and needlessly.

Can you give specific examples? Off the top of my head I can only think of the snake in Eastern Condors, a chicken in Spooky Kind, and maybe chicken kills in the sequel and other of his films showing taoist rituals. IN the case of Eastern Condors and Spooky, I would definitely disagree that the animal cruelty is pointless - one shows how Biao's character is at home in the jungle and the other shows genuine ritual practice and technically isn't any different to how millions of people daily around the world slaughter their own chickens.

You could say they were needless though in the sense that a prosthetic animal would have sufficed, although given the budget and time restrictions of HK cinema (and the fact the chinese will kill and eat anything that fucking moves) I can see why he just went for the easiest option.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 29 Feb 2008, 12:25

tempted by this to replace my hkl.bit pricey with shipping though, paying hd prices for an sd dvd

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 29 Feb 2008, 16:05

I would definitely disagree that the animal cruelty is pointless

Yep, their pain's not of any concern

(!)

one shows how Biao's character is at home in the jungle and the other shows genuine ritual practice and technically isn't any different to how millions of people daily around the world slaughter their own chickens.

Suppose.

You could say they were needless though in the sense that a prosthetic animal would have sufficed

Agree.

and the fact the chinese will kill and eat anything that fucking moves

That would explain bamboo.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 29 Feb 2008, 19:08

chenlung wrote:
I would definitely disagree that the animal cruelty is pointless
Yep, their pain's not of any concern (!)

The examples I listed are clean kills - certainly the chicken kills are - so there really shouldn't be much more pain involved than any other ritualistic or "slaughter" killing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to advocate cruelty to animals, but I just wanted to address the issue of whether it's really that big a deal for a Chinese director to film a live chicken sacrifice when you consider the culture of the country involved. It's ok for us Westerners to say "oh that's just purposefully mean", but we have a completely different outlook on this sort of thing & would always prefer prosthetics over actual killing.

I guess my long winded point is that, in Sammo's case at least, there does seem to be a real purpose behind the animal cruelty, and on some level I can understand why he chose that option, even though I don't feel it's completely jusitified.

Now, for some perspective: Men Behind the Sun's infamous cat sequence is a textbook example of real animal cruelty that should be deplored.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 29 Feb 2008, 19:23

Frankie Chan's 'Outlaw Brothers' is easily the worst case.

I do understand what you mean, no country is perfect. Besides, maybe the world needs a waking up to things that go on.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 29 Feb 2008, 21:47

I can't count how often I have had this discussion before, but my opinion on this issue has always been that it doesn't matter whether the chicken is killed by a machine in a slaughterhouse and wrapped into plastic, or whether it is killed on the set of a film and then eaten right away by the crew.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 29 Feb 2008, 22:06

Chen Lung: Are extras English subtitled?

Brad: Considering how rubbish they look, does it matter?

Mark wins by TKO. 8)

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 29 Feb 2008, 22:10

chenlung wrote:Frankie Chan's 'Outlaw Brothers' is easily the worst case.

You haven't seen Men Behind the Sun have you?

It's fucking shocking I promise you.

Mind you: the director has always refused to confirm that the scene was genuine -- but it looks REAL for sure.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 29 Feb 2008, 22:59

Markgway wrote:Chen Lung: Are extras English subtitled?

Brad: Considering how rubbish they look, does it matter?

Haven't gotten confirmation on the subtitles (few people have ordered it), but I get the impression that they're not because as much as the guys at NEW included stuff that fans like with some sauce and salt, I don't think they cared about the vinegar (taking whatever subtitles available and slapping them on, or not bothering).

Tai Seng's re-translation (which features on Universe's DVD, but possibly dumbed-down) is on par with HKL's (even though it's likely to be a clean-up, but they are good). I'm curious to what was used (be it Fortune Star dubtitles, flubtitles, Tai Seng or HKL), or even if it's in-sync! Tai Seng are good translation-wise, but they tend to include the wrong word "I'll revenge him" or subtitle English dialogue.

More so, why didn't this disc come out with a bang? It looks great!

What looks rubbish?

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 29 Feb 2008, 23:05

Markgway wrote:
chenlung wrote:Frankie Chan's 'Outlaw Brothers' is easily the worst case.
You haven't seen Men Behind the Sun have you?

It's fucking shocking I promise you.

Mind you: the director has always refused to confirm that the scene was genuine -- but it looks REAL for sure.

Wikipedia states it has more than just that too.

I should have said "Easily the worst that I had witnessed", but 'Holocaust' seems disturbing too.

So technically, if a poor pig was beaten up, handcuffed and stabbed and it passed off as 'ritual', the BBFC would allow it?

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 01 Mar 2008, 01:45

I couldn't say if there's a limit on what they'd tolerate, but the buffalo slaughter they allowed to remain in Apocalypse Now is pretty brutal iirc.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 01 Mar 2008, 03:09

saltysam wrote:tempted by this to replace my hkl.bit pricey with shipping though, paying hd prices for an sd dvd

I was thinking the same. I thought I'd give the Joy Sales a go. No one seems to have bought it to see if it's in sync.

It at least has a selection of three Cantonese tracks to choose from: DTS, DD5.1 or Mono (even if it's fake). I'm definitely not interested in paying HD prices for a DVD (unless it's super special).

chenlung wrote:Yep, their pain's not of any concern (!)

Unless you're a vegetarian (are you?) I don't think anyone should be judging animal cruelty.

Most breeds of animal eaten by people in all countries are treated worse than Sammo Hung has ever done to them. Mass slaughter for a so called intelligent species, because that makes lots of sense

Of course it's completely wrong what Sammo and others have done in the name of Film but it's nothing compared to the mass murder that goes on every day just so most people can chow down on a hearty burger.

As to the answer I do not have one. It's absurd to cut it after the fact in some ridiculous hope that film-makers will pay attention next time, but to just show it uncut (as most countries do) tells film-makers it acceptable to add to the already enough animal cruelty that goes on.

Is it the BBFC's job to educate the world? I think not. Leave it uncut.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 01 Mar 2008, 03:25

I was thinking the same. I thought I'd give the Joy Sales a go. No one seems to have bought it to see if it's in sync.

It at least has a selection of three Cantonese tracks to choose from: DTS, DD5.1 or Mono (even if it's fake). I'm definitely not interested in paying HD prices for a DVD (unless it's super special).

Muldoon would marry you if you bothered to head over there!

I wouldn't even count those remixes as choices - that's putting it lightly.

The German DVD maybe expensive, but maybe wait for confirmation and anyone selling it, etc - it could have proper subtitles as well as:

Original English dub and Cantonese - both clean quality mono.
Live feature.
English credits (with German title card) (!)

As much as I resent the bootleggers, I'm surprised HK Flix hasn't touched them (either Fox issues, or they just haven't heard of it). Yes Asia usually stock things (occasionally at the drop of a hat!) if you request them. Maybe someone head there?

Unless you're a vegetarian (are you?) I don't think anyone should be judging animal cruelty.

I am veggie (were you not too?) and I do agree with your points Brad.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 01 Mar 2008, 03:25

bradavon wrote:Is it the BBFC's job to educate the world? I think not. Leave it uncut.

The Cruelty to Animals Act is not a BBFC defined thing, it's something the BBFC are required by law to follow.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 01 Mar 2008, 23:41

i ordered this from shopdtm, the le with the crappy cover,it's now showing my order as open,i think they've sold out.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 01 Mar 2008, 23:56

saltysam wrote:i ordered this from shopdtm, the le with the crappy cover,it's now showing my order as open,i think they've sold out.

Yep, now unavailable

.

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 02 Mar 2008, 00:03

I wonder how many international orders they received this week

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Mar 2008, 00:52

chenlung wrote:I am veggie (were you not too?) and I do agree with your points Brad.

I am. I didn't realise sorry. It's an assumption considering few are.

As to Eastern Condors it's too much for me. The HK DVD is only £5.49 at CD WOW.

Shingster wrote:The Cruelty to Animals Act is not a BBFC defined thing, it's something the BBFC are required by law to follow.

I know that. I cannot believe I forgot it. Okay the Government then.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 02 Mar 2008, 02:15

I am. I didn't realise sorry. It's an assumption considering few are.

Jumping to conclusions, are we

? Be lucky I'm not Heather Mills, who'd have your guts for garters!

We must cook dinner sometime.

As to Eastern Condors it's too much for me.

It's not so much that, but where the hell do you get it? DTM are out of stock, whilst Amazon.de and Ebay don't have it.

The HK DVD is only £5.49 at CD WOW.

Cheap bastard

. £6.99 at first, but it's actually £5.99 if you use the £1 coupon (http://www.hotukdeals.com/deal/1003/50p ... ount-links).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Mar 2008, 03:06

£5.49 using a £1 link then 50p code

-

https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... c.php?t=36

The US links are now next to useless, sadly

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 02 Mar 2008, 03:23

bradavon wrote:£5.49 using a £1 link then 50p code

I have morals in respect to CD WOW's "don't use codes and vouchers together" rule, smart arse

!

The US links are now next to useless, sadly

The 'CD-WOW.US' site?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Mar 2008, 04:38

Correct. You used to be able to get up to 50% off but now they're only a few dollars off and aren't as good as the UK deals.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 06 Mar 2008, 17:57

despite being shown as unavailable on the site i've had a shipping notice for this.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 07 Mar 2008, 01:22

saltysam wrote:despite being shown as unavailable on the site i've had a shipping notice for this.

Oh yeah

? Cheers mate! What one (of the three) did you order?

I think only the 'luxurious' online stores (like Play.com) can offer real-time stock indication, whereas a German site like this probably get the stuff in regularly no problems, but don't prioritize notification on the site as it's too hassling.

When you get it, give us a review and in particular: the subtitle source

.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 07 Mar 2008, 14:10

Interesting that the French pinks the colours and weakens the contrast in the subtitles pictures.

Someone got the disc (over at Asian DVD Guide) and I've popped the question

.