Let's Discuss HD Combo Players!

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 08 Jan 2008, 11:38

More combo news

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/ ... layer/1337

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Jan 2008, 18:27

WTF!

They've not even managed to get the BD-UP5000 out yet. There is a point of getting the 5000 but by second half 2008 buying HD-DVD will start to get worried.

The 5000 was originally due out in October I won't be expecting the 5500 until 2009.

Except for Profile 1.1 and DTS-HD onboard (which the 5000 better bloody have by then too) it looks identical. This cannot be the final spec. Maybe it will have a similar spec. (what could they add?) but better firmware and more powerful hardware.

No doubt it will mean a price drop for the 5000. I still say price and reliability aside Combo is the way to go. Both are obviously big ifs but given time both should be ironed out.

I'm surprised Samsung have enough confidence in their 5000 to schedule a replacement. The American 5000 launch has barely happened and internationally there is nothing.

Lots of pictures here, it even looks similar to the 5000 (maybe slimmer?):

http://gizmodo.com/341077/samsung-bp+u5 ... ual-player

The RRP for the 5000 is $1000, an RRP of $599 is amazing!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Jan 2008, 18:45

Interesting info on the 5500:

cosmic023 wrote:More news from the CES Show............

The firmware update for the 5000, is now going to be based on features of the 5500, and released in May 2008:

CES News:

I was at CES today and talked to the Samsung designated expert, HyungKyu Lee, an assistant engineer in the Digital AV Division of Samsung in Korea. He was quite specific that the firmware upgrade for the 5000 would be forthcoming in May, the same time that the 5500 will be available. I didn't need an interpreter. The 5500 will have the desired audio capability, but lacks some of the video sophistication of the 5000. Apparently they are trying to transfer the audio capabilities designed into the 5500 into the 5000 by firmware update, and it taking more time than anticipated. He reiterated that it will be done, but in May. So anyone anticipating an early update seems likely to be disapointed. I still have a 5000 on order with Amazon and, all things considered, am going to get the unit since there is nothing else on the market to play all the HD discs out there available on Netfix. Interestingly, there was a lot of bravura optimism expressed by Toshiba and Microsoft reps about the future of HD DVD, but they all may be crying in their beer.

Source: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... st12732576

I am really wondering what the 5500 adds? It looks identical, except being maybe slightly slimmer. That link says the video is more sophisticated, how?

It does sound like the 5000 was a Beta release and they're planning to get it right with the 5000. Can I really wait to May-June though??? It's getting really fucking stupid

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 08 Jan 2008, 19:43

sounds to me like the 5500 may be the way to go.cheaper,and it should iron out the bugs of the early model

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Jan 2008, 20:00

But if HD officially dies before then I doubt they'll bother....

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Jan 2008, 20:28

FYI the reason for the price drop is the lack of the HQV SD DVD Upscaling chip:

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9841162-67.html

Which is known to be one of the best. Frankly as long as it can still upscale (which presumabely it will) I don't care. I'd take a lower price, DTS-HD, Profile 1.1 and no BD Disc problems over a better SD DVD Upscaling chip any day.

Markgway wrote:But if HD officially dies before then I doubt they'll bother....

They will, HD-DVD has a guaranteed 12 months left on it and that's enough time to still support a Combo Player. Paramount aren't going to go and breach their contract.

The Paramount contract is for 18 months so we know as fact it will last a minimum of next Christmas. Add to that that it will take months to re-release all the thousands of HD-DVDs already out there.

By then I'll have a healthy selection of discs to not care if HD-DVD fails. The AV quality is as good so I'll just keep the discs I've already bought.

I don't like the idea of paying a lot for a Combo Player if one format fails (although $500 is chump change) but if it allows me to play ALL films for 6-12 months earlier then it's no huge loss. $500 is what many single format players cost. That's how I'm looking at it. It's not as if a Combo Player will suddenly stop playing HD-DVDs.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Jan 2008, 20:40

I may still get the BD-UP5000 then get a BD Player later. I don't fancy waiting "another" 6 months. I've now owned 5 DVD Players (2 at the same time, so 4). I don't anticipate my first HD Player to be my last.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 08 Jan 2008, 20:45

i hear you are loaded anyway Brad

£400 is pennies to you

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Jan 2008, 23:31

Are you kidding? I'm skint. My car insurance + MOT are due this w/e, next month I have Insurance and the following month TAX. It gets it all out of the way but buy it's an expensive 3 months.

But yes I wouldn't object to paying £450 for a HD Player. I can always sell it later on and get a decent wedge back.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 Jan 2008, 23:26

I've thought of a good reason to go Combo. If anything HD-DVD dying makes the case stronger in the short term.

If you have two players and BD wins your HD-DVD collection (which AV wise are as good) will never grow larger yet your BD one will. Sounds obvious right? But consider this, in 2-5 years time you have a healthy collection of BDs but your HD-DVDs are still stuck at 20-30.

How many people are going to want to keep an obsolete piece of kit clogging up space just for 20-30 movies, which will never grow larger? You'll therefore have to try and sell it, and the movies on and waste cash getting the BDs BUT with a Combo Player it's all in one so who cares if your 20-30 HD-DVDs never grow? They'll still player perfectly fine as they are in your BD Player, that also happens to play HD-DVD too.

This for me anyway is a strong reason to consider Combo. Especially when HD-DVD has a fair amount of life in it yet before new discs stop being produced and HD-DVDs are bound to be cheap on eBay if lots of people start getting rid of them.

dvdvision · Post by **dvdvision** » 11 Jan 2008, 08:55

Some people are selling lots of HD-DVD that goes at 4 $ each ! It's crazy, but then, if you got an HD player (like me), it will be a means to get the 400 + existing disc for pennies.
I think the HD-DVD ending is just internet and media hype... my money's on warner going back to HD-DVD by this time next year, and all the blu-boys commiting massive suicides, jumping from buildings just like Wall Street in 1929. :twisted:

Note that the way warner "stops" in may-june, leaving probably only a six month window of no new HD-DVD releases (assuming they have cashed in a check for one year exclusivity). It would be real funny, if they reissued HD-DVDs again, after the fall numbers of Blu comes in (and my guess is that Blu will not sold more this year, all the red boys will stop buying movies and that's it).

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 11 Jan 2008, 12:34

Not too sure about that.
I fear that Warner's move might trigger a chain reaction that will progressively push all studios towards the Blu side.

Personally I'm just gonna go into "denial mode": until this stupid war is truly over, I'm going to pretend HD does not exist.
There's no such thing as Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. There is only DVD.
Wake me up when it's all over and I'll buy into the sole remaining format.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 11 Jan 2008, 19:04

For a techie Tom you're a very weird one

, ignoring XP until 2004 for instance.

It's the law techies must adopt all new technologies

dvdvision wrote:Some people are selling lots of HD-DVD that goes at 4 $ each

Where? For that price I'd be very interested.

dvdvision wrote:I think the HD-DVD ending is just internet and media hype...

Agreed.

tom2681 wrote:I fear that Warner's move might trigger a chain reaction that will progressively push all studios towards the Blu side.

Agreed.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 11 Jan 2008, 19:08

So what does everyone think of my theory?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 11 Jan 2008, 19:22

I don't regret buying my hd-dvd machine as it's brought me some great viewing pleasure and continues to do so. it upscales my SD DVD'S beautifully and now i can play my region 3 and 4 collection on it as well it's even better. that said from now on i'll opt for the BD over the HD-DVD every time given the choice. i'd say if the combo is reliable and there are at least 15-20 titles out on HD-DVD you want then go for it

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 11 Jan 2008, 19:33

I'll easily be able to get 15-20 HD-DVDs. I already own 9 (7 counting Matrix as one) and have 6 on my wish list plus Terminator 2 which goes a considerable way to me still supporting HD-DVD.

I'd hate to be stuck with the shit USA BD!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Jan 2008, 20:23

It's looking likely Samsung have changed course with their Duo HD Players and instead of releasing a single all-in-one 5000 model they're turning it into the bottom end model, along with the 5500.

Over at AVS there are rumours the HQV Upscaling chip will be dropped from the 5000 in Europe and also the 5500 will definitely not have the chip anywhere, nor will it have Analogue Outputs (these seem to be retained on the 5000). The 5500 will definitely add Profile 1.1 and DTS-HD though. Whether the 5000 ever will is looking iffy, maybe it will, maybe it won't.

These will be replaced later in the year with the 6500 which adds back in HQV (and presumably Analogue outputs) plus Profile 1.1 and DTS-HD. So basically everthing we were promised with the 5000!

Info about the 5500 lacking HQV and Analogue outputs: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost ... stcount=68
Info about the 6500: http://asia.cnet.com/crave/2008/01/08/s ... ture-hqv-/

p.s - I've seen 5000's on eBay that ship to Europe and really want one but the 5000 looks so much like a lame duck I'm really unkeen to get one. The 5500 does mean waiting another 5 months though and the lack of analogue outputs is a serious concern, presuming the rumours are true.

That said many people are saying how good the 5000 is over at AVS and it's not as if the PS3 hasn't had any firmware updates.

At least on the plus side there is nothing in either of the problem disc threads over at AVS I was going to buy (except for Pan's Labyrinth and I want that on BD anyway).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Jan 2008, 20:38

It's just occurred to me considering the price drop ($1000 vs. $599) I could spend the extra cash and buy a new amp, and thus not need analogue outputs.

As much as it pains me I think I'll wait a wee while longer. I've waited this long. I'll definitely wait until at least firmware is out for the 5000. The lack of a HQV upscaling chip is a pity but it's not the end of the world. I'll be using my DVD Recorder mostly anyway and that does Upscaling too, maybe not as well but meh it's fine.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Jan 2008, 18:23

An interesting article on the Sammy 5000:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/12/sa ... o-deliver/

It offers nothing we don't know already but it does consolidate it well into one article. It's interesting to see review units aren't being shipped either.

New firmware in Mid-January. I'll believe that when I see it

Once the disc problems are sorted out, Profile 1.1 and True 5.1 + DTS-HD are sorted out the better. I believe then it will rock!

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Jan 2008, 19:41

saltysam wrote:I don't regret buying my hd-dvd machine as it's brought me some great viewing pleasure and continues to do so. it upscales my SD DVD'S beautifully and now i can play my region 3 and 4 collection on it as well it's even better. that said from now on i'll opt for the BD over the HD-DVD every time given the choice. i'd say if the combo is reliable and there are at least 15-20 titles out on HD-DVD you want then go for it

Hey I'm a bit of a newbian on this whole HD thing (kinda like Tom). But do you have:

1. An HD-DVD player?
2. Which is also multi-region (for SD DVDs)?
3. If so, what is it?
4. Thanks.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 13 Jan 2008, 20:35

1 : Yes
2: sort of, a recent firmware upgrade set it to region 0, plays region 3/4 discs fine and most region 1's except for some fox and paramount discs.but i tend to use my ps3 for region 1 discs.
3 : it' a toshiba E-1 ,a fine machine but there are better spec and cheaper models out now ( no hack yet for them though)
4: you are welcome

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Jan 2008, 20:53

Cool I might get the E30 or whatever it's called? Pretty cheap HD DVD player - maybe Toshiba will release another region 0 firmware.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Jan 2008, 21:52

The MR firmware Salty mentions is unofficial and unique to some Toshiba models. It also won't play RCE discs (as Salty mentions).

A general rule of thumb is that ALL HD-DVD and BD Players are single SD DVD region locked.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Jan 2008, 22:00

Ugh baw jaws. Well I do have a multi region DVD upscaler. Might use that for multiregion SD DVDs and use a seperate Toshiba for the HDDVD.

Didn't wanna fanny about with two players mind.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Jan 2008, 22:11

99.9% of people continue to use their DVD Player. In my case I have a DVD Recorder anyway (which I continue to need) so it's no loss.

BiscLimpkit wrote:Didn't wanna fanny about with two players mind.

It cannot be helped, unless you go Combo you'll need 3 if you want to support BD too. Salty's HD-DVD Player is now an old model. I wouldn't buy it just so you can make it SD DVD MR. Even with it you need some other kind of Player to handle the R1 RCE discs.

No doubt one day they'll sell HD Players with SD DVD MR but not now. It's more a case of market logistics than anything technically stopping them. There are a few companies that sell BD Players with SD DVD MR but the Players tend to be expensive and none I've seen in the UK.

Personally I'd buy a BD Player from America so it's Region A (crucial IMO) and a UK HD-DVD Player as they have no HD-DVD region coding anyway. I'm going Combo though so will (eventually) get a USA Combo Player.