Windows 7: A better Vista?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 05 May 2009, 16:22

Windows 7 RC available to download:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/window ... nload.aspx

It expires all the way in June 2010! I'll be upgrading my Beta install the next day or so.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 05 May 2009, 21:49

Cool.

I'm downloading the x64 version now and will install it as my main OS on my main PC, and also on my server PC when I finally get round to building it.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 May 2009, 13:55

Sure it's stable as hell but you trust it that much? I have my key but haven't installed it yet. I will this w/e. I plan to upgrade my Beta install so doubt I'll need the key.

I don't use it much mind you. I'll reformat/reinstall when it's RTM. For now Vista SP1 will do.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 06 May 2009, 20:05

Yeah, it seems pretty damn stable to me. It is a release candidate after all.

I'm toying with using a server edition of Ubuntu actually, for my new server build. The desktop version I was playing with today at work has built-in OpenOffice, Firefox and Torrent client. It appears to also have remote desktop connection built-in which will be useful to me as it means I can get rid of my clunky old 17" CRT that I'm using with my current monitor.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 May 2009, 20:56

I liked the App Store in Ubuntu when I tried it out but otherwise I'm against bundling software. It leads to bloat. Those are useful however.

I'm going to download the RC tonight and install it this w/e. I cannot see it taking long, upgrading after all. Obviously I'd never upgrade on an official install.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 06 May 2009, 22:50

I think Microsoft are still recommending a fresh install when upgrading from the beta to the release candidate. Thats what I'm going to do anyway.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 May 2009, 00:16

I've read 50/50 either way. As mine is just a test install I cannot be bothered but for you, definitely.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Jun 2009, 16:41

Windows 7 release date, 22nd of October:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ows-7.html

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Gaming smackdown: Windows XP vs Windows Vista vs Windows 7:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/ ... s-7-604178

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 02 Jul 2009, 10:07

Special offer pre-order premium £49.99 Pro £99.99

http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/buy ... order.aspx

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Jul 2009, 10:54

FYI as far as these cheap deals goes: Europe is getting the Full Product and the rest of the world an Upgrade. This is because an Upgrade would leave IE behind and Microsoft doesn't work IE to be left installed. They want us to install it separately, as in we specifically "wanted it".

These versions are the E edition, meaning no IE installed and probably not Windows Media Player either. Both can simply be installed separately. Otherwise they're identical to the normal version sold outside of Europe. I'm waiting for a Non-E OEM edition. It will likely only cost £20 more at launch.

Given that Windows XP N and Vista N (no Windows Media Player) were sold alongside the normal versions. I anticipate being able to get hold of Windows 7 Home Premium Normal without an issue.

These E editions are good news as Upgrades versions are hideous! It's always best to install fresh.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 02 Jul 2009, 15:07

bradavon wrote:These E editions are good news as Upgrades versions are hideous! It's always best to install fresh.

Agreed.
I'll buy W7 and wipe my Vista partition ASAP. I have no reason to wait for W7, unlike Vista which was rubbish at release. (Modern post-SP1 Vista is terrific though with good driver support, performance is pretty identical to XP these days for most games.)

Fuck installing the RC though. If somebody else wants to run an incomplete, pre-release OPERATING SYSTEM on their PC as their primary OS then that's their prerogative.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Jul 2009, 16:25

Since I installed Vista RTM (then SP1, now SP2). I've found it consistently more reliable and stable than XP.

XP is definitely nippier but for overall reliability Vista all the way. Of course many people who run XP run it on dog old PCs and even worse dog old installations. Which make matters much worse. Sort UAC out and give Vista 2Gb+ RAM and it's easily better than XP, no contest.

I've not noticed much difference between the Windows 7 Beta and RC but tbh I only used the Beta a little and have barely used the RC. I had a spare hard disk so I figured why not. I've not had it in my laptop for ages though.

I plan to give W7 x64 RTM ago and if I have the same problems I did with W7 x64 Beta I'll give up on x64 until I get a new laptop and get x86 RTM. 3Gb is frankly enough for me, especially with Windows 7s faster speed.

I couldn't get to work:

1. Adobe Photoshop Elements 7 - Refused to install
2. Windows Live Essential 2008 and 2009 - Both refused to install
3. As Nvidia don't provide drivers for their own laptop graphics cards and Toshiba don't offer x64 drivers for my model period, I'm having to use a modded INF but this being unofficial the Multi-monitor support is dodgy to say the least. The Nvidia drivers from Toshiba's website (x86) work fine on W7 x86.
4. 2-3 other drivers I can find no drivers for period. I forget what they are but I reckon they're unimportant.

All worked perfectly on Windows 7 Beta and RC x86.

Toge · Post by **Toge** » 10 Jul 2009, 16:03

Thought i'll pop my head in here to see how everything is

You can pre-order Win7 for 50 quid from amazon and from the DSGi group from the 15th

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 Jul 2009, 19:37

Only Amazon.com not .co.uk. Unless I've missed something? They're all the E version. I'd prefer the full version but just know if I wait. I'll end up paying more just to get IE8, which I'll be able to download anyway.

Which reminds me, if we're expected to install a browser ourselves (or get IE8 on Windows Update), where is the bloody IE8 for Windows 7 link?

Toge · Post by **Toge** » 10 Jul 2009, 22:29

only amazon.com? MS website is it then

and why do you need a link? they're all the same

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 Jul 2009, 22:52

It's anywhere until next Wednesday, you won't find it at MS's UK website either.

No they're not. Each IE8 Setup EXE is bespoke to the OS it's meant for. There are 7 different EXE versions:

Windows XP
Windows XP 64-bit and Windows Server 2003 64-bit
Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008
Windows Vista 64-bit and Windows Server 2008 64-bit
Windows Server 2003
Windows 7 and presumabely Windows Server 2008 R2 - Required for the E versions of Windows 7
Windows 7 64-bit and presumabely Windows Server 2008 R2 64-bit - Required for the E versions of Windows 7

There is currently no IE8 download for Windows 7 but come the release of the E version, there will be.

Toge · Post by **Toge** » 11 Jul 2009, 10:48

Well I didn't know that.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Windows-Home-Pr ... 614&sr=8-1

http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/buy ... order.aspx

There are the URLs

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Jul 2009, 13:21

Grrr! All the news reports say £49.99 and a little over 2 weeks this is rubbish and we're charged £69.99!

You've always been able to get XP Home or Vista Home Premium OEM for around this price anyway. So I fail to see where the deal is now? Incidentally look here:

http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/buy ... grade.aspx

It clearly states £49.99 but you click on the link and it shoots up to £79.99.

If I cannot get it for £49.99 I'll wait. I'm still hoping we'll be able to get the Full version and not this E nonsense. It happened with XP/Vista N (no Media Player), you could still easily get the Full version in The UK.

Incidentally Windows 7 N Edition means no Internet Explorer and no Windows Media Player.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 27 Jul 2009, 18:14

It sold out at £49.99, they only allocated a certain number of copies at that price and demand was high so all went in less than a week.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 27 Jul 2009, 18:17

I got Windows 7 Professional pre-ordered for £90 with Amazon. You should have got in there while you had the chance, bradavon - we all knew it was going to sell well. I couldn't care less about getting a non-"E" version. Whats the point in worrying about Internet Explorer, which you can download for free if you need to? I certainly don't care that its not included...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Jul 2009, 18:42

Lourdes wrote:It sold out at £49.99, they only allocated a certain number of copies at that price and demand was high so all went in less than a week.

Thanks, bollocks. What utter stupidity, at £69.99 it's no longer a bargain. They could've sold thousands more, easily. Only fools buy Retail Windows. I'll wait for the OEM release, which will be identical save a pointless case.

IronMonkey wrote:You should have got in there while you had the chance, bradavon - we all knew it was going to sell well.

What with, a mobile phone? I was on holiday remember!

IronMonkey wrote:I couldn't care less about getting a non-"E" version. Whats the point in worrying about Internet Explorer, which you can download for free if you need to? I certainly don't care that its not included...

I'd rather a full version but yes I would've happily downloaded it. I'm still hoping I can still now. The Full version was sold alongside the Vista/XP N versions. That may not be the case with the E version but there's no rush to pre-order it any more.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 28 Jul 2009, 09:40

So a whole £20 more makes it less of a bargain?

The standard price will be £149.

--

The trouble with E versions is that there's no browser at all and apparently you won't even be able to grab IE via Windows Update. So you'll always need to have another disk/usb key.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 28 Jul 2009, 13:07

Lourdes wrote:So a whole £20 more makes it less of a bargain? The standard price will be £149.

Correction: The standard "retail" price will be £149. The OEM price will be around £80 anyway. As was the case with XP and is the case with Vista. The only difference between OEM and Retail is a fancy box. I've never bought a Retail version of Windows ever, OEM all the way. Also at launch many sites are saying the price won't actually go up until January 2010.

In other words, whilst still a good price, no longer a bargain.

Lourdes wrote:The trouble with E versions is that there's no browser at all and apparently you won't even be able to grab IE via Windows Update. So you'll always need to have another disk/usb key.

True. I'd be very surprised if it's not available at http://www.microsoft.com/ie though (all other EXE versions are). Plus in future revisions of the DVD this is going to happen though:

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/263425/micr ... ows-7.html

The N versions won't have IE or Windows Media Player. XP N and Vista N just miss out on Windows Media Player but it can be downloaded from Microsoft.com but in the case of N you could still get hold of the Full version. Hopefully that will be the case with the E versions.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 28 Jul 2009, 13:12

Can't they just fucking release 1 (ONE!!!) version of the whole thing, and keep it simple and cheap!?!?

What's the fucking deal with E-versions and N-versions and OEM and Retail and 32 bit and 64 bit, and probably basic/office/home/deluxe/Barbapapapinkytoe-versions etc!?

Just release 1 version, 64 bit, and make it 50-80 bucks and be done with it. Everyone would buy it. No bullshit with differences between versions, everyone has the same, etc etc.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 28 Jul 2009, 13:31

Yi-Long wrote:Can't they just fucking release 1 (ONE!!!) version of the whole thing, and keep it simple and cheap!?!?

It's actually quite simple:

1. Starter - Netbooks only and the only version allowed to be sold on Netbooks.
2. Home Premium - Home
3. Professional - Business but Retail
4. Enterprise - Also Business but volume license etc...

Pro and Enterprise are effectively the same market. You can forget about Home Basic (now only emerging markets) and Ultimate (waste of time for most).

Yi-Long wrote:What's the fucking deal with E-versions and N-versions

Blame the EU not MS, they didn't want them. It's to keep the Anti-Competitive EU folks happy.

Yi-Long wrote:and OEM and Retail

This is standard, across Windows and XP. They're effectively same product (i.e - different licence codes) except for a nice box with the retail version.

Yi-Long wrote:and 32 bit and 64 bit

Agreed, this complicates it. The new MAC OS is 64-Bit only but then the MAC world is significantly less complicated than the Windows world. It's expected Windows 8 will be, just like Exchange 2007 and Windows 2008 R2. The trouble is of course all the legacy hardware/apps, something Apple can control, whereas Microsoft cannot. It's much better but we're not there yet.

Many PCs are still sold with 1Gb-3GB RAM too and with that 32-Bit is fine. 1GB is all Netbooks are allowed to be sold with, outside of upgrading yourself.

Yi-Long wrote:and probably basic/office/home/deluxe

That is annoying but it's been that way for years.

Yi-Long wrote:Just release 1 version, 64 bit, and make it 50-80 bucks and be done with it. Everyone would buy it. No bullshit with differences between versions, everyone has the same, etc etc.

Like I said it's really not as complicated as you think. It was worse with Vista: Home Premium or Basic, which created problems people expecting more than they got. Most people buy Windows with new PCs and the decision is made for them. It's really only two versions: Home Premium or Pro.

As said, 64-bit isn't ready for full release on Windows just yet.

Bullets 'n' Babes

Windows 7: A better Vista?

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