"What Ron Said" - tonight on BBC1 - 10.35pm

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 13 Dec 2004, 15:20

Just thought I'd do a heads up for this - could be interesting - in this piece Big Ron presents his version of events following the racist outburst he made against one of Chelsea's players, and tries to find out "why it caused such offence" (?) - surely its obvious why? What he said is rude, despicable and offensive, whether he meant it or not.
Not sure why the programme needs a whole hour though...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 14 Dec 2004, 10:06

This piece was interesting, but I didnt feel Big Ron did himself many favours - he is still in denial (sometimes literally) about what he said and just wonders around looking angry and sorry for himself.
I didnt realise he also did something similar in a 1990 game (England v Cameroon) when he said something about a Cameroon player's mum - but that time he got away with it. Even if he only meant as a joke (!), that is sheer bad manners.

Though once again, the issue of why and how words are used is intresting, I believe "nigger" is either derived from the Latin word for "to blacken" or else is a bastardisation of the word "negro" - when young black people in America use that word, to them its' a word about kinship (its' pronounced more like "nigga" though), its' a word they use to identify each other. Negro is a word also used to describe a black person.
Did anyone watch this?

[Edited on 14-12-2004 by grim_tales]

ghevans · Post by **ghevans** » 14 Dec 2004, 10:16

Yeh the show was interesting and certainly raised a lot of interesting questions - the museum of racist memorabilia was just damn scary - but weirdly what frightened me most was not the fact that people could have such made such venomous and vitriolic items of hatred to another race but the very short sequence where an absolutely disgraceful mother was saying "KKK" to her child (just a baby) as if it would be the first thing the child said. That sequence alone totally sickened me and the people i watched it with.

But getting back to the issue - i think Ron appeared more confused than anything else - i dont think he's a racist (regardless of the words he used) he's just an idiot who made a stupid comment. He has publicly apologised and has stepped down from his line of work and to be honest until last night - i'd all but forgotten about him.

I think the main problem with last nights show though was that it all just felt a little patronising to Ron - he knows what he said was wrong but went through the show being told by everyone basically what he already knew. I think the inclusion of Carlton Palmer and one of the older players from his West Brom days was a good thing as it showed disdain at what he said but understanding of him as a person who did pioneer an anti-racist footballing world in the UK.

The Darcus Howe meeting at the end was basically just a case of two rams butting heads - they were never going to settle their differences with Darcus Howe wanting Ron to degrade himself as a "pennance" for what he said while Ron was just adamant that he has done all the apologising he had to do.

Not wholly satisfying as a documentary due to the lack of closure on the subject but good at raising a fair few questions.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 14 Dec 2004, 10:44

Thats true - Frank Skinner (West Brom fan) also said that its almost as if Ron has undone all his good work in football in one fell swoop - "if Ron died tomorrow it wouldnt be 'Big Ron has died' but 'Ron the Racist has died'" he said.
I dont think he's a racist either, what he said was stupid and disgusting and he's an idiot, but as you say he has apologised profusely and resigned so what else is he supposed to do?
That very short sequence with the mother scared the hell out of me, that was obviously an old clip but sickening that such things went on

Where were the students from in the school Ron went to?

[Edited on 14-12-2004 by grim_tales]

[Edited on 14-12-2004 by grim_tales]

ghevans · Post by **ghevans** » 14 Dec 2004, 10:53

I missed the first 10 mins of the show so im not sure if it was during the opening that he was in a school but i know later on he met with some students in America (but nothing too coherent came from it).

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 14 Dec 2004, 11:41

Thats what I meant GH, sorry - when he met with the US students.

ghevans · Post by **ghevans** » 14 Dec 2004, 11:48

Im not sure what State it was but i know shortly after that (or was it just before) that he did a radio appearance in Birmingham, Alabama which just seemed to still have an incredible amount of racism there seething under the surface (particularly from the phone calls).

Was it just me or was anyone else constantly worried every time Big Ron opened his mouth for fear of another gaffe?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 14 Dec 2004, 12:02

They were certainly very prejudiced (sp?) and racist there, still.

I felt that at times Ron dug himself a bigger hole - he would say things like "I did not swear" when he did.
On the other hand he did raise an intresting question - what if he had referred to the fact Desailly was French (since he qualifies to play for France) in his comment, rather than black? That would still be insulting, but would it recieve the coverage it did? Everyone in the world, like it or not - has insulting words for foreign people.

I also agree about the pioneering work he (Ron) did in football.
Even Motty, in one of his commentaries said something like "That is excellent work from the coloured players" or something - I'm sure he didnt mean to be insulting but IMO thats' almost patronising - for one thing black is not a colour.

Unrealnils · Post by **Unrealnils** » 17 Dec 2004, 19:40

wrong thread boys this should be tv or sport..........

will stick it in tv for now