Scart and HD Talk

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 21 Dec 2005, 22:53

The need for PAL in the UK has pretty much disappeared since the majority of TVs nowadays can play NTSC.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 22 Dec 2005, 17:15

gasteropod wrote:The need for PAL in the UK has pretty much disappeared since the majority of TVs nowadays can play NTSC.

I wouldn't go that far. A big portion of people buy cheap makes (such as Matsui) and besides ALL TV transmissions are in PAL.

Besides why should we lose PAL? Get rid of NTSC I say

(okay it would be easier to get rid of PAL, just). That said why bother.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 22 Dec 2005, 17:57

Or why not take the opportunity with the move to HD to have one single system which runs at 24 fps instead of PAL's 25 or NTSC's 29.97?

Think about it - there will be no "lower resolution" NTSC HD material because whether it is PAL or NTSC it will be at 1280x720 or 1920x1080 resolution. The powers that be should have taken this opportunity to wipe out the whole NTSC / PAL argument...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 22 Dec 2005, 19:21

I don't think it works that way IM???

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 22 Dec 2005, 19:56

No it doesn't, but it should. Thats my point. The image being put on screen now is no different in resolution whether it is NTSC or PAL. The only difference now is the frame rate.

Before it used to be 720x756 for PAL DVDs and 720x480 for NTSC DVDs. But my point is that everything is a standard 1280x720 or 1920x1080 in HD material.

So why didn't they take the opportunity to make playback from video sources (e.g. the new HD-DVD or Blu-Ray formats) 24 fps instead of still having to convert to 29.97 fps for NTSC or 25 fps for PAL?

It doesn't make sense to me, but then it never will because there is no logic behind these things.

Did you know most HD displays coming out over here have native resolutions of 1366x768? The reason for this is that 1024x768 is a legacy PC monitor 4:3 format and 1366x768 is the 16:9 version of it.

Why make HD 1280x720 then? Or why not make the displays native 1280x720 then no upscaling (image degrades) is needed at all?

Do you see my point?

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 22 Dec 2005, 22:00

bradavon wrote:
gasteropod wrote:The need for PAL in the UK has pretty much disappeared since the majority of TVs nowadays can play NTSC.
I wouldn't go that far. A big portion of people buy cheap makes (such as Matsui).

My widescreen is Matsui and plays NTSC! (I bought it about five years ago as well!)

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 22 Dec 2005, 23:36

Sadly at the moment the HD issues from america and UK are still there in our faces

720p HD European Braodcasting format will have 720 lines progressivly scanned in a single frame, however 1080i used in HD in america is better resolution, but sadly the image is interlaced into 2 frames much the same as PAL TV is now, this causes flicker and granular image (whatever that means).

So really its a bit crap still and we will have to select where we get things still.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 23 Dec 2005, 12:52

How do you know if your TV can *do* pure NTSC?

Don't almost all TV's do PAL60 at least? Mine surely does, if not NTSC.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 23 Dec 2005, 13:23

Look in the manual!

Seriously, it will tell you in there. My TV supports NTSC, PAL50 & PAL60...

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 23 Dec 2005, 18:37

Mine plays NTSC discs in colour. That is all I need to know.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 23 Dec 2005, 18:51

Must be OK then

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Dec 2005, 05:30

Good points IronMonkey, yep I see your point and agree.

gasteropod wrote:Mine plays NTSC discs in colour. That is all I need to know.

Through a scart? with RGB enabled?

If so that's not conclusive as Scart with RGB enabled (somehow) manages to bypass the NTSC/PAL signals and gives you colour regardless.

p.s - You could try watching an NTSC DVD using the yellow composite lead (or switch your scart to composite). Is it in colour or black and white?

That's another way to find out.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 27 Dec 2005, 10:25

bradavon wrote:
gasteropod wrote:Mine plays NTSC discs in colour. That is all I need to know.
Through a scart? with RGB enabled?

If so that's not conclusive as Scart with RGB enabled (somehow) manages to bypass the NTSC/PAL signals and gives you colour regardless.

p.s - You could try watching an NTSC DVD using the yellow composite lead (or switch your scart to composite). Is it in colour or black and white?

That's another way to find out.

SCART RGB sucks, it can't carry progressive scan signals. Component or DVI is the way to go.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 27 Dec 2005, 10:34

And how many CRT TVs do you know of which have component inputs & can handle progressive scan?

Not many!

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 27 Dec 2005, 10:56

IronMonkey wrote:And how many CRT TVs do you know of which have component inputs & can handle progressive scan?

Not many!

Component is fucking common down here in Oz/NZ. I've seen cheapo 10" with them. And Prog scan CRT tellys are peanuts down here.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 27 Dec 2005, 11:30

Ah yeah I forgot you live over there. Here in the UK we have to make do with stupid SCART leads - well done Philips for inventing the most stupid connection ever known to man!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Dec 2005, 15:37

LOL

Of course it is Eva but like IM said for most (in Europe anyway, scart being mostly a European standard) RGB Scart is the way to go.

You sure as hell can't buy 10" TVs with component inputs, you need to go for one of the "decent branded" makes and usually have 25"+.

Digital TV (through cable, aerial or satellite) is scart or nothing! Still it could be worse most cheap TVs in Asia are composite or nearly as yucky S-Video. I'd prefer scart any day to those two!

p.s - You forgot HDMI Eva, it's the same (basically) as DVI but support copy protection :twisted: and audio as well (like scart but 5.1).

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 27 Dec 2005, 17:15

Can you get RGB SCART? I thought all SCART leads (fully wired) could detect an RGB signal (that is, if your TV accepts it).

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 27 Dec 2005, 18:58

If the SCART lead has all 21 pins connected, or some shit!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 28 Dec 2005, 01:51

Yes Grim you're spot on. I was calling it RGB Scart for simplicities sake, it should be:

"Scart with RGB enabled on the DVD Players Configuration menu"

But that's much more words

.

You can buy uber expensive scarts that are wired for RGB only (no audio either) to stop so called interference.

I say get a half decent one and be done with it.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 28 Dec 2005, 09:34

Thats OK then. The one I have is pretty good. (More expensive than those crap black ones that come free with DVD players).

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 01 Feb 2006, 13:35

bradavon wrote:I say get a half decent one and be done with it.

Or go DVI or component, you backward Europeans!

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 02 Feb 2006, 13:36

According to Microsoft computer playback of HD-DVD will be at... 1080p 24fps!

So HTPC here I come... sync that mofo up with 96 or 72 hz projector and I'm in video-heaven!