The John Woo World Cup

[Markgway]

Have you noticed that in the years before such a tournament, there are already international games which handle the qualification, thus making sure teams that aren't good enough don't end up in that tournament?

So you want me to hold a pre-tournament tournament to decide who will play whom in the actual tournament?

Have you noticed that AT the tournament, the very best teams are all put at the top of a group so they don't knock eachother out prematurely?

...and who gets to decide which films are best in advance of a tournament? Maybe we should just all step aside and let you pick the winners?

With stuff like this, rating movies, it's much easier to just come to a fair result/conclusion, cause unlike sportsmatches where it's impractical and impossible to have match-ups between ALL contestants in their best form, that IS possible when rating movies, books, whatever. Like I said, it's a flawed system in itself.

You do realise you're being a joyless wanker...?

[Yi-Long]

Have you noticed that in the years before such a tournament, there are already international games which handle the qualification, thus making sure teams that aren't good enough don't end up in that tournament?

So you want me to hold a pre-tournament tournament to decide who will play whom in the actual tournament?

No

Have you noticed that AT the tournament, the very best teams are all put at the top of a group so they don't knock eachother out prematurely?

...and who gets to decide which films are best in advance of a tournament? Maybe we should just all step aside and let you pick the winners?

No

With stuff like this, rating movies, it's much easier to just come to a fair result/conclusion, cause unlike sportsmatches where it's impractical and impossible to have match-ups between ALL contestants in their best form, that IS possible when rating movies, books, whatever. Like I said, it's a flawed system in itself.

You do realise you're being a joyless wanker...?

... and no.

[Markgway]

Semi Results:

1. Last Hurrah for Chivalry (0) vs The Killer (7)

2. Bullet in the Head (6) vs Red Cliff (1)

Final now in play....

[Markgway]

1. The Killer vs Bullet in the Head

I love Bullet in the Head, but The Killer just edges it... just....

[HungFist]

1. The Killer vs Bullet in the Head

I like Bullet in the Head a lot, but I always thought it was a bit disapponting. Plenty of terrific scenes, but also too much poor lip sync, bad acting moments, and over-the-top action. In a pure action movie like The Killer none of these would be that much of a problem, but Bullet in the Head is a much more serious movie, which is why its clumsiness comes out as much bigger issue.

I'd love to see Woo's original longer cut / festival cut (not the Joy Sales extended edition), which some have stated to be notably superior. Seems unlikely it will ever appear on dvd/bd, though, with Woo showing no interest in it.

[saltysam]

1. The Killer vs Bullet in the Head

[Keung]

1. The Killer vs Bullet in the Head

"The best Hong Kong film ever made" - Whoever wrote that must have only seen a handful of HK flicks. The Killer is ridiculously overrated.

[degeneration]

Missed a few rounds it seems cause of New Year...

Can't believe Hard Boiled got knocked out. What were all you lot thinking? It beats both these films in the final with ease, IMO.

Of these 2, I don't know which one I would class as better. They are both good. So my result is a draw between the two.

[bradavon]

Sorry I've been away since Friday. Which 4 masterpieces Mark? Hard Boiled, The Killer and Face/Off are really good but none are masterpieces.

[Markgway]

I'd love to see Woo's original longer cut / festival cut

It was only five minutes longer and most of that was a scene where the guys are drinking piss.

I'm more than happy with the 131m cut.

"The best Hong Kong film ever made" - Whoever wrote that must have only seen a handful of HK flicks. The Killer is ridiculously overrated.

I've probably seen more Hong Kong movies than anyone on this forum and 'The Killer' is a serious contender for the best Hong Kong movie ever made. So put that in your hater pipe and smoke it!

Can't believe Hard Boiled got knocked out. What were all you lot thinking? It beats both these films in the final with ease, IMO.

Hard-Boiled rocks... but you're obviously wrong.

Sorry I've been away since Friday. Which 4 masterpieces Mark? Hard Boiled, The Killer and Face/Off are really good but none are masterpieces.

A Better Tomorrow
The Killer
Bullet in the Head
Hard-Boiled

Face/Off isn't in the same league and should not be mentioned in such prestigious company...

[saltysam]

i'd put Red Cliff up alongside those other four.fantastic film and even more impressive that it came about after what appeared his best days as a director had gone.

[HungFist]

I'd love to see Woo's original longer cut / festival cut

It was only five minutes longer and most of that was a scene where the guys are drinking piss.

I'm more than happy with the 131m cut.

My understanding was that it had a trillion differences, just like The Killer. No?

I wouldn't consider the HK version of The Killer the best HK film, but the extended version(s) are notably better IMO, raising the rating from 4.5/5 to 5/5.

People who don't think The Killer is the best HK film ever made must not have seen the extended version(s)

Besides, the chances are I have seem more HK films than Keung has

Sorry I've been away since Friday. Which 4 masterpieces Mark? Hard Boiled, The Killer and Face/Off are really good but none are masterpieces.

A Better Tomorrow
The Killer
Bullet in the Head
Hard-Boiled

Followed by Last Hurrah. That film is made of greatness and wuxia nostalgia.
(ok, I haven't seen it since I was 16, but I'm pretty damn sure its still fantastic)

[grim_tales]

Hung what is the difference between the Joy Sales version and the festival cut of BITH?
Was thinking of picking up the Joy Sales DVD.
IMDB used to say there was an official LD of the longer festival cut IIRC

Can't decide here - both are excellent films....

The Killer v Bullet in the Head

I remember BITH being a very dark and shocking film with some great scenes and acting, Waise Lee maybe a bit OTT but still a teriffic film. Almost perfect. IIRC I much preferred the theatrical cut where the car chase at the end is juxtaposed with the friendly bike chase at the start, Brilliant.
The Killer is perfect. CYF is excellent.

[Keung]

I haven't seen any other cut of The Killer, and don't plan to see any of them either.

[luckystars]

1. The Killer vs Bullet in the Head

"The best Hong Kong film ever made" - Whoever wrote that must have only seen a handful of HK flicks. The Killer is ridiculously overrated.

Same^^

[gasteropod]

I watched The Killer once and then promptly sold my HKL.

[saltysam]

i like the Killer but have to confess on my last viewing it wasn't as awesome as i remembered.Still better than BITH though.

[Markgway]

i'd put Red Cliff up alongside those other four.fantastic film and even more impressive that it came about after what appeared his best days as a director had gone.

You're right. I did give Part 1 **** but to me it's so new I've yet to think of it in 'classic' terms... lol

[Markgway]

My understanding was that it had a trillion differences, just like The Killer. No?

Hmm... the main difference is the 5 min piss drinking scene (which I never liked)... the other additions I believe are miniscule... maybe about thirty-something shots that last anything between a few frames and a few secs each... AFAIK the Joy Sales DVD is as close to 'complete' as you can get without making your own edit. Nice to have as a collector's bit but in no way definitive. I also much prefer the car joust ending and that's only in the 131m version.

[HungFist]

My understanding was that it had a trillion differences, just like The Killer. No?

Hmm... the main difference is the 5 min piss drinking scene (which I never liked)... the other additions I believe are miniscule... maybe about thirty-something shots that last anything between a few frames and a few secs each... AFAIK the Joy Sales DVD is as close to 'complete' as you can get without making your own edit. Nice to have as a collector's bit but in no way definitive. I also much prefer the car joust ending and that's only in the 131m version.

I recall someone mentioning the soundtrack also had a lot of differences, with the fest version being much more complete...

but I'm talking about something I think I read some 6 or 7 years ago somewhere, so don't take my word on it...

[bradavon]

I've not seen Bullet in the Head or Red Cliff and A Better Tomorrow a masterpiece? I suggest you learn what masterpiece is supposed to mean.

[luckystars]

Mark is calling it a masterpiece because he only has four stars in his scoring system.

[Markgway]

I've not seen Bullet in the Head or Red Cliff and A Better Tomorrow a masterpiece? I suggest you learn what masterpiece is supposed to mean.

I'm not taking any critical tips from someone who hasn't seen Bullet in the Head and can't form a coherent sentence (see above).

Mark is calling it a masterpiece because he only has four stars in his scoring system.

I only need four stars. So why don't you and Brad **** off?

[Markgway]

Final score:

The Killer (4) vs Bullet in the Head (2)

[HungFist]

ABT is one of the 15 best movies ever made, so calling it a masterpiece certainly wouldn't be far off...