Cartoon Controversy

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 06 Feb 2006, 08:50

Romero, stop listening to the press... really you seem to pick up every stereotype they try to promote. You've really got to start accepting that the people you read about in the press commiting violence etc in the name of religeon, these are the vocal minority, we are talking hundreds out of tens of millions of people.

Think of all the stereo types you yourself fit into based purely on your heritage and appearance, yet in all likelyness you don't actually fit into any of them. Still by your logic you should be killed for what others who share some inconsiquential simliarity to you have done, even though in reality you yourself have more rigid morals than most. Accepting that not all muslims are the same, or people of any faith or race for that matter, is essential if you yourself do not want to be judged and punished for other peoples actions.

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now ive got that out of the way, back to the main debate. My one comment to this cartoon thing is that yes the cartoons were in bad taste, they were pretty much designed to wind the more volatile muslims groups up.

I'd imagine most muslims were mildly offended, but the majority would just brush it off as a stupid insult ('we will not fall into your trap... evil press'

), a small minority would feel offended enough to make peaceful protest (which is great, its basically a 'hey world, look thats pretty damn offensive, it upsets us, please be more considerate'), and then the very small minority who's solution to anything that threatens them is to burn stuff and generally riot ('your idiot cartoon is so offensive we cannot continue to live as it is burning at our very spirit... therefore we will burn stuff until we get bored'*).

Basically the press have baited the muslim world, the many have declared their distaste at the effort, the minority have played right into their hands by responding with violent protest.

*ok so ive met people who hold the first 2 but ive never actually met anyone thats participated in such riots so i basically have to guess the mindset

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 06 Feb 2006, 09:08

thelostdragon wrote:
gojensen wrote:
thelostdragon wrote:What if a neo-nazi magazine was released every sunday with anti-foreigners and anti-Jew comics in it. They couldn't legitimate that with freedom of speech or artistic freedom.
I wouldn't care - why should I? It's not like they are FORCING those magazines down my throat is it? People have different opinions... I deal with it.
You wouldn't care? Well, that's sad.

Why? Should I care what other folks do in their private sphere? Should I interfere? If so, where does the line being and stop? So long as they don't harm others (or me) I'm not inclined to interfere with them...

I can understand the muslims wanting an apology from the newspaper. I do NOT understand their demands from the Primeminister. I do NOT condone the violence that is going on... and neither should any muslim (and I hope most don't).

(For those that don't know, the cartoons apparently came together since the publisher had wanted to make a children's book about islam and Muhammed, but they could not find an artist that dared to illustrate it... so they had an open call to see what the issues with this was...)

The thing is... this makes muslims (in "western" eyes) look even worse than before. Because first they want to dictate how we do things... then they go all out nuts with violence and threats when they don't get their wishes. (And I'm pretty sure your prophet and the holy book would NOT condone any of what has been going on...).

Do I think some of the cartoons may have been in bad taste? Sure, but coming in the aftershock of the BinLaden posse (whom I believe swear to Islam?) it's not really shocking is it? Or the many "muslim" countries were even basic rights for women are neglected... There's a huge cultural difference between the muslim world and the "western" world - and what is going on now only widens that gap...

Personally I'm afraid... afraid that WW3 is not far away... look who's holding the smokin' gun "over there"?! A lunactic... (Yes BUSH!)

Further, I can't understand the mentality of the people doing these acts of violence. Do they REALLY think it will help? And what about the ship that sunk recently. Will razing the boat companies HQs revive their lost ones? What's the point of such outright violence?!

As for Romero, we all know he's a jerk

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 06 Feb 2006, 11:26

I agree Gojensen with what you said about not understanding/condoning the violence. If they want an apology from the newspaper, thats' fine. But their acts of violence and wanting the Prime Minister to apologise, burning the Embassy is taking it too far. I hope most Muslims wouldn't approve of that.
Thnaks for pointing out the children's book thing, yes it came from someone wanting to make a children's book.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 06 Feb 2006, 12:17

The whole affair has become very childish. I now understand Mordib's theory of destroying mankind and letting monkeys rule the world. I support that idea tbh.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 06 Feb 2006, 12:26

BiscLimpkit wrote:The whole affair has become very childish. I now understand Mordib's theory of destroying mankind and letting monkeys rule the world. I support that idea tbh.

Ehmmm... arent we already!?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 06 Feb 2006, 12:26

I saw an interview on C5 news today and someone said this whole thing wasn't just about the cartoons, but also things like the French ban on headscarves, war in Iraq/Afghanistan as well as the cartoons, he said he could understand why people would be pissed off. But he also said it doesnt excuse the violence and the boycotting of products and thats the important point. Jack Straw has praised the media for their senstivity on this issue. Shame these extremits don't know what a peaceful demonstration is.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 06 Feb 2006, 13:18

Folks, all the violence is not just due to these cartoons. The cartoons just pulled the trigger and fired the first bullet from the loaded ammo clip. It was like the last straw.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 06 Feb 2006, 13:21

Grim, you're right. Not only the banning of the headscarve, but also for stuff like the dragnet investigations and stuff like every now and then a Muslim disappearing from the face of the earth and if he's lucky he re-appears after a brutal interrogation (see the El-Masri case in Germany for example).

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 06 Feb 2006, 13:55

And this has what to do with the burning of the Danish and Norwegian Embassies? Which COULD be interpreted as an attack on our "soverign soil"? I.e. a declaration of war? (Thank god (no capital G) that we're not a militant country! :mrgreen: )

Anyways, there are a lot of injustice in the world... IMO there's no excuse for the violence done now (either from muslims or anyone else)... and AFAIK it's in direct opposition to the Koran (that's for the muslims mind you, I wouldn't force it on non-muslims though I'm PRETTY sure the Bible doesn't condone this sort of thing either...)

So... setting aside all the injustice, LD - do YOU condone the violence that has been going on? And if so I'd like an explanation as to why and what good you think will come from this...

As a note to show that the muslims aren't only the "bad people" in the world, and to show what this kind of "diplomacy" will do... a muslim in Norway was attacked in his own house by a bunch of hooligans... the end result was a long knife gash in his neck. That could've been lethal. And the attack was a direct result of what has been going on. (Personally I hope they rot in jail... there's no excusing that...)

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 06 Feb 2006, 14:33

I happen to think the banning of headscarves and other multi-religious artifacts was a good idea. I bet French Muslims would love me!

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 06 Feb 2006, 14:57

people should respect (as in recognise they exist, lets not start the respect debate again

) each others diferences and celebrate the things they have in common with each other. We are in the proces of writing up the results of the interfaith conference for kids we ran in birminhgam a month or two ago. Young people are much more sensible that adults when it comes to respecting people, i shall post up the stuff they produced as soon as it is in some web form.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 06 Feb 2006, 15:39

Mordib wrote:people should respect (as in recognise they exist, lets not start the respect debate again ) each others diferences and celebrate the things they have in common with each other. We are in the proces of writing up the results of the interfaith conference for kids we ran in birminhgam a month or two ago. Young people are much more sensible that adults when it comes to respecting people, i shall post up the stuff they produced as soon as it is in some web form.

In theory, yeah kids are very sensible... sadly, in reality, many bully or are being bullied

We think it's cruel but it also (sadly) happens in the adult world...

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 06 Feb 2006, 17:09

It a lot more than hundreds of people involved in this sickening behavior and they have way too much support from people behind the scenes who dont like to get their hands dirty. Stop listening to the press you say, beleve me I dont just go off one single biased news programme.

I wont say anymore.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 06 Feb 2006, 17:20

romerojpg wrote:It a lot more than hundreds of people involved in this sickening behavior and they have way too much support from people behind the scenes who dont like to get their hands dirty. Stop listening to the press you say, beleve me I dont just go off one single biased news programme.

I wont say anymore.

Really now!?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 06 Feb 2006, 18:01

I am sure a few on here do.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 07 Feb 2006, 12:14

HELLZ YEAH!

http://www.sorrynorwaydenmark.com/

Maybe there's hope for the world afterall...

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 07 Feb 2006, 12:36

Iran's most-read newspaper is planning to start an international cartoon contest about the holocaust as a reaction to the ones printed by "Jyllands-Posten". The best drawers will be rewarded with pieces of gold.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 07 Feb 2006, 12:48

thelostdragon wrote:Iran's most-read newspaper is planning to start an international cartoon contest about the holocaust as a reaction to the ones printed by "Jyllands-Posten". The best drawers will be rewarded with pieces of gold.

Hmmm... pieces of gold ey!? (starts drawing...)

Honestly, I think it's distastefull & respectless, just like the earlier cartoons, but if that's the way these people wanna expose themselfs, then so be it. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
It's just a shame innocent people are getting hurt because of this hurtfull behaviour, while it's even unneccessary. But I guess that's how the human species is...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2006, 12:56

I agree Yi-Long, IMO that is distasteful.

Millions of people died in the Holocaust.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 07 Feb 2006, 17:08

Yup people died, and they were mainly killed in the name of Religion, wow thats a suprise

Anyway Iran is ran by complete morons anyway, so who gives a shit. They kill people for anything.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2006, 18:36

The Nazis gassed 6m Jews because of religion?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 07 Feb 2006, 19:06

Yes, they are JEWS what did the jews (apparently in the bible of all things!) do? they helped Kill jesus or something stupid that was lied about 2000 years back and for that Hitler killed them. Religion bollocks.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Feb 2006, 19:14

grim_tales wrote:The Nazis gassed 6m Jews because of religion?

Grim, read that sentence back to yourself a couple of dozen times and then think about it some more...

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 07 Feb 2006, 19:18

Hopefully the dickhead who dressed up as a "Suicide Bomber" in the protests will be in jail soon, the stupid pig ignorant criminal wanker! people like that really need burning alive!

I will go over to Iran or somewhere in deep shit with evil terrorists and dress up as an UN/American Army dude scyewering a baby on a bayonette!

but no I wouldnt, as thats fucking sick, like that dickhead!

Them protesters are some vile beings......

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2006, 19:57

Markgway wrote:
grim_tales wrote:The Nazis gassed 6m Jews because of religion?
Grim, read that sentence back to yourself a couple of dozen times and then think about it some more...

Sorry. You're right I didnt think about what I was writing.
Romero the Jews didn't crucify Jesus, the Romans did. If you believe the Gospel the Jews bullied Pontius Pilate into crucifying him, I think the Romans wanted rid of him from the start.
The Nazis hated Jews because for one thing they thought (wrongly) the Jews had lost World War 1 for them.